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Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
56,378
Great post. Merkins don’t seem to consider there’s a down side to ruthlessness.

I wouldn't call not renewing BA for 2025 ruthless - he missed the Finals in 2023, and we look to be missing the Finals again in 2024.

We won a Wooden Spoon under him

Not to mention he's been here for 11 years.

If anything, telling him, "Thanks for everything, but we need fresh eyes," is very generous.
 

hineyrulz

Post Whore
Messages
149,412
I wouldn't call not renewing BA for 2025 ruthless - he missed the Finals in 2023, and we look to be missing the Finals again in 2024.

We won a Wooden Spoon under him

Not to mention he's been here for 11 years.

If anything, telling him, "Thanks for everything, but we need fresh eyes," is very generous.
Surviving a 6 win season with a team tipped to go close to winning a comp was generous. Him being still here is absolutely ridiculous and embarrassing.
 

Legal Eel

Juniors
Messages
650
TCT are BA groupies. There is no better coach than BA according to them. Nothing is his fault
You have to remember that these were the guys writing detailed glowing profiles of a 12 year old Matt Arthur and a 14 year old Jakob Arthur…I like them but I think their perspective is clouded by the access they are granted under the Arthur regime
 
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Soto

Bench
Messages
3,255
I’m not all in on Bennett but I’m liking the idea of Cheika.
Cheika in my view would be the absolute dumbest decision ever. Would we seriously put a bloke in who has never ever coached a 1st grade rugby league team and give him the keys to one of the biggest NRL clubs??? This is complete madness. Are people seriously thinking this through? He would need to have some success as a rugby league coach before entertaining this..
Your giving an L-Plater the keys. Sure he's a great man Manager and awesome rugby union coach but so is Ange Postecoglou in Football ⚽️.
You just don't.
Coaches we should be targeting in order are.
Bennett
McGuire
Holbrook
Lam
Ryles - Ryles hasn't coached a 1st grade team yet so a pass for me but getting out the options.
Assistants include Ryan Carr
Holbrook if not the 1st grade coach
Dymock
Steve Price
I'd be happy for Cheika to be an assistant but there is a massive difference in yawnion and league...
 

the phantom menace

First Grade
Messages
9,210
I wouldn't call not renewing BA for 2025 ruthless - he missed the Finals in 2023, and we look to be missing the Finals again in 2024.

We won a Wooden Spoon under him

Not to mention he's been here for 11 years.

If anything, telling him, "Thanks for everything, but we need fresh eyes," is very generous.
Should have been a kpi in his extension at this stage in his ongoing tenure - make the finals in every year, or contract terminates with 12 months notice... or miss the finals two years in a row and termination with immediate effect.

He would have either backed himself to take the extension, or if he had no faith in his abilities would have walked and looked elsewhere.
 

Chipmunk

Coach
Messages
16,439
Cheika in my view would be the absolute dumbest decision ever. Would we seriously put a bloke in who has never ever coached a 1st grade rugby league team and give him the keys to one of the biggest NRL clubs??? This is complete madness. Are people seriously thinking this through? He would need to have some success as a rugby league coach before entertaining this..
Your giving an L-Plater the keys. Sure he's a great man Manager and awesome rugby union coach but so is Ange Postecoglou in Football ⚽️.
You just don't.
Coaches we should be targeting in order are.
Bennett
McGuire
Holbrook
Lam
Ryles - Ryles hasn't coached a 1st grade team yet so a pass for me but getting out the options.
Assistants include Ryan Carr
Holbrook if not the 1st grade coach
Dymock
Steve Price
I'd be happy for Cheika to be an assistant but there is a massive difference in yawnion and league...
I think Cheika with some very high calibre assistants would be the way to go. I suspect there are many decent assistants who are really running the show tactically anyway. I doubt Wayne has come up with a rugby league tactic for over a decade to demonstrate my case in point.

Jason Demetriou would be an option for an assistant.

Maybe Jim Dymock.

Hannay has big wraps

David Furner would also be handy in an assistant role.
 

Avenger

Immortal
Messages
32,413
Cheika in my view would be the absolute dumbest decision ever. Would we seriously put a bloke in who has never ever coached a 1st grade rugby league team and give him the keys to one of the biggest NRL clubs??? This is complete madness. Are people seriously thinking this through? He would need to have some success as a rugby league coach before entertaining this..
Your giving an L-Plater the keys. Sure he's a great man Manager and awesome rugby union coach but so is Ange Postecoglou in Football ⚽️.
You just don't.
Coaches we should be targeting in order are.
Bennett
McGuire
Holbrook
Lam
Ryles - Ryles hasn't coached a 1st grade team yet so a pass for me but getting out the options.
Assistants include Ryan Carr
Holbrook if not the 1st grade coach
Dymock
Steve Price
I'd be happy for Cheika to be an assistant but there is a massive difference in yawnion and league...
I disagree. He’d be my first choice.
 
Messages
19,217
His profile and corporate sponsorship that he’d attract would be beneficial. You don’t coach your country for 5 years if you don’t know what you’re doing.

Well.....it was the ARU. They've fired a bloke to bring Eddie Jones in so he could f**k things up then f**k off all witihin an 18 month period.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
85,781
You’re conveniently ignoring the fact that we’ve been giving BA every opportunity to succeed for the last 11 years.
Every season needs to be judged on its own merits though. It’s not an 11 year continuum with an inevitable premiership at the end. Each year we have had a chance of winning the comp ranging from zero to whatever. We’ll never know what our chances were so we can pretend they’ve always been zero, and always will under this coach, but I think that would be an incorrect assessment.

Wayne Bennett hasn’t won anything since 2010, which is a longer drought than Brad Arthur. Would Bennett have inevitably won a premiership if he had spent the past 12 years at the Knights? I seriously doubt it. He might’ve won but it’s not inevitable just by piling on extra years. With more luck he could’ve won in 2013, which might’ve been their best chance in the last decade even if Bennett had been there the entire time. Likewise we could’ve won in 2020, ‘21 or ‘22 with more luck.
Someone posted that we’ve extended him 5 f**king times. That’s the very meaning of giving every opportunity to succeed. Taking a position that the board will probably continue to do the same is not just justified, it’s highly likely.

You taking the opposing view is the more ridiculous argument.
I think it’s likely that the board understands that premierships are ultimately a matter of probability and randomness. Bennett might’ve won a premiership over the past 14 years with more luck, and Arthur might’ve won in the past four years, also with more luck. The club was a f**kfight prior to 2019 though, so those years shouldn’t count against Brad Arthur. His results since that time have been far superior to his pre-2019 results. He might as well have been coaching at two different clubs.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
85,781
If we remove all the pros and cons and any emotional attachment to this, what is the reasonable amount of time?
I think a coach generally speaking should have 5-7 yrs. If no premiership then next..
Why i say 5-7 is because it allows coaches to go and recruit the types of players they want to execute their game plan....
First couple of years you may have inherited the roster, by year 3 you're shaping the roster....
Since 2008 Bennett has not coached at any club longer than four years (Broncos part two). Most of them (Dragons, Knights, Rabbits, Dolphins) it was only three years. Why didn’t he hang around at the Knights or Rabbits if he was a better chance of winning? Why not stay at the Dolphins?
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
85,781
I know TCT can't bite the hands that feed them, but their argument that Bennett is past it and not a good choice to coach any team is laughable and just about destroys any credibility they thought they had.

You shouldn't keep a coach for more than 5 years without winning a Comp. For a decade, you would think at least two Comps.
Surely it depends on the club? Maguire and Cleary are both premiership winners but couldn’t get Wests into the top eight.
 

Legal Eel

Juniors
Messages
650
Every season needs to be judged on its own merits though. It’s not an 11 year continuum with an inevitable premiership at the end. Each year we have had a chance of winning the comp ranging from zero to whatever. We’ll never know what our chances were so we can pretend they’ve always been zero, and always will under this coach, but I think that would be an incorrect assessment.

Wayne Bennett hasn’t won anything since 2010, which is a longer drought than Brad Arthur. Would Bennett have inevitably won a premiership if he had spent the past 12 years at the Knights? I seriously doubt it. He might’ve won but it’s not inevitable just by piling on extra years. With more luck he could’ve won in 2013, which might’ve been their best chance in the last decade even if Bennett had been there the entire time. Likewise we could’ve won in 2020, ‘21 or ‘22 with more luck.

I think it’s likely that the board understands that premierships are ultimately a matter of probability and randomness. Bennett might’ve won a premiership over the past 14 years with more luck, and Arthur might’ve won in the past four years, also with more luck. The club was a f**kfight prior to 2019 though, so those years shouldn’t count against Brad Arthur. His results since that time have been far superior to his pre-2019 results. He might as well have been coaching at two different clubs.
You are right - premierships are a result of random luck, much like spinning a chocolate wheel!

this is some valiant defence and the club has rewarded you with at least 18 more months of mediocrity and about 20000 more dedicated posts in that time
 

Noise

Coach
Messages
17,440
It’s not fair to judge BA in 14, 15 or 16 because we had a team cheating the salary cap and we still didn’t win anything or even play finals footy. 17 is okay to include. But 18 we can’t because we came last. Everything from 19 is fine to judge him on except for last year because our poorly disciplined side got suspended too much. You also can’t judge him on this year because Moses got injured.
 

Happy MEel

First Grade
Messages
9,501
Surely this isn’t true. If he approached Souths I can understand because the noise was deafening about JD’s demise however that’s not the case with BA. Not yet anyway. Bennett can be a f**kwit but I cannot see him actively pushing for a coach to be sacked unless it’s a sure thing or Anthony Seibold.
I don’t know mate. At this stage it looks like his only two options next year are Souths and possibly us. I actually think we’re a slightly better opportunity than Souths going forward so I can certainly see an enquiry being made. Don’t believe the bullshit he peddles about not pushing a role where there’s an incumbent. He looks after number 1, and rightly so.
 

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