Sack Flanagan

[offiah]

Wow, a lot of anti Flanno in here. The roster is absolute rubbish, don’t think any coach would be getting much more out of these guys atm. The fish rots at the head and we need it cut off imo.

 

[KogarahWarrior]

Wow, a lot of anti Flanno in here. The roster is absolute rubbish, don’t think any coach would be getting much more out of these guys atm. The fish rots at the head and we need it cut off imo.

Starts with Doust, Piggott and Albert. I don't care how good of a player Craig was. The trio are cancerous to the club

 

[Dragons4me]

If you think sacking a premiership-winning coach who has your dismal squad sitting on about 50/50 win ratio is going to lead to better things for the Dragons, then it seems the problem is that Dragons people themselves have no idea what to do.

Might be time for you all to give the ghost up and relocate to Dalian or Taipei as the Dalian or Taipei Dragons and make a play for the Asian consumer.

Another inept comment from a poster with a contribution history of 22 seconds. The loonies are out in force tonight! LOL.

 

[Miller was a legend]

Another inept comment from a poster with a contribution history of 22 seconds. The loonies are out in force tonight! LOL.

Whilst his last sentence achieved one bite, the first part is pretty accurate.

I would suggest the only thing I would add as critical of Flanno is he seems to have a far higher impression if his sons talent than the kid shows on a weekly basis. There really hasn’t been much other talent on the market to access ( not just in the halves either).

improving this squad is going to take time but he will get it there.

 

[Wolfgang90]

Whilst his last sentence achieved one bite, the first part is pretty accurate.

I would suggest the only thing I would add as critical of Flanno is he seems to have a far higher impression if his sons talent than the kid shows on a weekly basis. There really hasn’t been much other talent on the market to access ( not just in the halves either).

improving this squad is going to take time but he will get it there.

Kyle has been good this season when he's had an opportunity to have some control over the ball/team. He's the best defensive half we've had in a long time (which is saying something). He's also the best half we have apart from Hunt. Kyle isn't the problem & Flanno was right in picking him in the halves. He was brought in to play hooker/14 but Amone being kicked out of the team meant he's had to play in the halves.

 

[<StGeorgeDragons>]

Wow, a lot of anti Flanno in here. The roster is absolute rubbish, don’t think any coach would be getting much more out of these guys atm. The fish rots at the head and we need it cut off imo.

He is doing pretty well with the lot he has been lumped with but it begs the question - what is he doing in recruitment? Are we still in the "do nothing rash" phase? Time for him to deliver on what he promised. First sign Su'a for three years and go get some great props, a hooker and strike for our backline.

 

[TheRev]

Flanno managing to get virtually all the individuals in the team much improved over 2023 is a great effort.. but I've felt for years that its by far the worst roster in the comp, and because we cant sign players its getting further behind what has become the NRL Standard.

AFB was the cheat code as I have said many times.. but we missed it.. the way out for us now is very gruelling and slow.. a lot of fans are going to crack it in the process.. but if I had to pick a bloke to lead us, id pick Flanno, certainly not a rookie.. he's got broad shoulders, and my only criticism is he underestimated his pulling power to such a sh*t club.. he should have overpaid on any of the 40 odd players we have missed. but particularly the marquees.

The big piece missing however is a 'Richo' or similar 'go-get-em' type character on the board or somewhere on the staff.. Shane cant possibly do everything, and it starts with a very good recruitment manager that we still need to source.

 

[brissiedragon]

He is doing pretty well with the lot he has been lumped with but it begs the question - what is he doing in recruitment? Are we still in the "do nothing rash" phase? Time for him to deliver on what he promised. First sign Su'a for three years and go get some great props, a hooker and strike for our backline.

I wont be critical of Flanno given the average players he inherited, I will be critical of him continuing to select passengers like Bird and Lawrie and 1 or 2 others.

 

[Dragon David]

Interesting read as to why Turuva signed with the Tigers instead of us -

‘They made us fight’: How a loss to premiers sealed Turuva deal for Tigers

Wests Tigers’ refusal to give up while staring down defeat in Bathurst last month convinced the Panthers flyer to join Benji Marshall’s rebuild.

www.watoday.com.au

 

[justadragon]

Interesting read as to why Turuva signed with the Tigers instead of us -

‘They made us fight’: How a loss to premiers sealed Turuva deal for Tigers

Wests Tigers’ refusal to give up while staring down defeat in Bathurst last month convinced the Panthers flyer to join Benji Marshall’s rebuild.

www.watoday.com.au

I notice in that article to Dave was the Panthers offer to Fafita, and how they usually dont go to market for marquee players. Says a lot about their pathways and ours considering the talent they have lost over the years and are about to lose. Just business as usual over Penrith way and possibly another premiership.

 

[Old Timer]

My take on our coach.

Now in the 1st instance I admit I am a dog with a bone over the peptides saga and the non adherence to the subsequent suspension so Ill try and be 100% objective and put that aside.

Flanno was / is to many "the we must have coach" after-all he won a premiership with a club that never had one in the trophy cabinet, so no mean feat.

We all know we have issues with roster, recruitment, BOD etc etc so the task is not any easy one but let's just take a deep breath here and look at facts.

He's not a rookie and is by all accounts in the top 4 or 5 coaches (% win stats) since 2010. By all reports a hard nut.

As I said he is no rookie coach so therefore IMO comparing the teams win results to Mc Fookknuckle, Hook, Price etc is completely the wrong metric to use. They were a mixture of rookies & dumb f**k NFI's who imploded and were offloaded as a result and the very reason we looked for a better coach.

The correct metric IMO is to compare him to results (wins / losses / player development / recruitment etc) that the big 4 coaches Bellyache, Bennett, Robbo, Cleary achieve at their clubs and then hypothesise what they might achieve and subsequently do with our existing squad and how they would move our team forward.

So some of the following questions may be relevant to help make that assessment

1. Would they play favourites with selections and based on what we have seen from players this year would some of them have been dropped already?
2. Would Bird be picked at centre or be utilised off the bench ( gives far greater options) or selected at all?
3. Would Lawrie be retained in the top 17 and would they ever pick him at lock?
4. Would they be cowtailing to Ben Hunt and letting him rule the roost?
5. Would the existing game plan including the Ben Hunt kicking game / strategy remain as it is or would it have been forcibly changed?
6. Do you think that with any of the other 4 coaches in charge that we could have won that game yesterday by simply making better decisions from the coach's box?
7. Do you think any of the other 4 coach's would have signed C T and / or Nu Brown and you could possibly role K F into that equation as well?

In making an assessment of Flanno it is also fair to say "sacking him" is just pure emotion and in fact ridiculous however making poor / soft excuses on his behalf and not critiquing him correctly is equally ridiculous.

Nor should we overlook that he / management / media made some bold statements about what he could & would do and how the team would play and having done so he has to live by and be judged on those words. The fan base also offered up lots of reasons as to why Flanno should be our coach and they have to accept that also needs to be scrutinised.

a. We would be fitter, faster etc etc
b. We wouldn't beat ourselves and we would force others to play well to beat us.
c. Defence would be front and centre of our approach to games and we would be hard nosed.
d. He would be attractive to players at other clubs looking to further their careers.
e. He would make tough decisions and not tolerate slack performances.

Now for all the abject disappointment re our roster let's be truly objective whilst on the poorer side it is not without some good players nor is it without some that can be improved but keeping that in mind they need to improve at a greater rate than those of similar quality at other clubs do and there is plenty of evidence that some ordinary players at other clubs are actually doing that already. Nor is the team devoid of youth that must be assessed and transitioned.

So how long should all that take is the question and what pain should we endure in getting to that?

Again to be objective about that let's have a look at the South's scenario and the pending arrival of Bennett.

Will Bennett play favourites with players or will he make tough decisions?
Will Bennett quickly drop players who don't perform?
Will Bennett be frightened to go to his youth in an effort to get better results both short and long term?
Will Bennett be able to solicit players from other clubs ?
Will Bennett pull Walker & Mitchell into line?
Will Bennett move Mitchell to the centre's if it suits the team balance?

Bennett will be all over it by the time the season starts and will show the players who the boss is right from day 1 and results will flow automatically off of that.

Flanagan thus far has IMO been more Hook, Mc Fookknuckle who coached to try and survive rather than C B, W B, T R, I C who coach to win and that is what is most disappointing thing.

Almost every mistake made by Chinless, Mc Fookknuckle & Hook has already been repeated by Flanno and as a result Dragon's Footy remains alive & well at our club and I firmly believe that would not be the case if any of the other 4 coaches were at our club and I would even include Ryles as well for that matter.

It may well take time to sort it all out but the notion that decision making thus far is not highly questionable and in fact very poor in many circumstances is just sticking your head in the sand and the very reason we get f**ked over so many times.

I have given Flanno a bit of reprieve because I just found out we share the same birthday (not year) so that should count for something but in the end he is a well seasoned premiership winning coach and must be judged accordingly as was Madge at Souths and Green at the Cowboys.

 

[justadragon]

My take on our coach.

Now in the 1st instance I admit I am a dog with a bone over the peptides saga and the non adherence to the subsequent suspension so Ill try and be 100% objective and put that aside.

Flanno was / is to many "the we must have coach" after-all he won a premiership with a club that never had one in the trophy cabinet, so no mean feat.

We all know we have issues with roster, recruitment, BOD etc etc so the task is not any easy one but let's just take a deep breath here and look at facts.

He's not a rookie and is by all accounts in the top 4 or 5 coaches (% win stats) since 2010. By all reports a hard nut.

As I said he is no rookie coach so therefore IMO comparing the teams win results to Mc Fookknuckle, Hook, Price etc is completely the wrong metric to use. They were a mixture of rookies & dumb f**k NFI's who imploded and were offloaded as a result and the very reason we looked for a better coach.

The correct metric IMO is to compare him to results (wins / losses / player development / recruitment etc) that the big 4 coaches Bellyache, Bennett, Robbo, Cleary achieve at their clubs and then hypothesise what they might achieve and subsequently do with our existing squad and how they would move our team forward.

So some of the following questions may be relevant to help make that assessment

1. Would they play favourites with selections and based on what we have seen from players this year would some of them have been dropped already?
2. Would Bird be picked at centre or be utilised off the bench ( gives far greater options) or selected at all?
3. Would Lawrie be retained in the top 17 and would they ever pick him at lock?
4. Would they be cowtailing to Ben Hunt and letting him rule the roost?
5. Would the existing game plan including the Ben Hunt kicking game / strategy remain as it is or would it have been forcibly changed?
6. Do you think that with any of the other 4 coaches in charge that we could have won that game yesterday by simply making better decisions from the coach's box?
7. Do you think any of the other 4 coach's would have signed C T and / or Nu Brown and you could possibly role K F into that equation as well?

In making an assessment of Flanno it is also fair to say "sacking him" is just pure emotion and in fact ridiculous however making poor / soft excuses on his behalf and not critiquing him correctly is equally ridiculous.

Nor should we overlook that he / management / media made some bold statements about what he could & would do and how the team would play and having done so he has to live by and be judged on those words. The fan base also offered up lots of reasons as to why Flanno should be our coach and they have to accept that also needs to be scrutinised.

a. We would be fitter, faster etc etc
b. We wouldn't beat ourselves and we would force others to play well to beat us.
c. Defence would be front and centre of our approach to games and we would be hard nosed.
d. He would be attractive to players at other clubs looking to further their careers.
e. He would make tough decisions and not tolerate slack performances.

Now for all the abject disappointment re our roster let's be truly objective whilst on the poorer side it is not without some good players nor is it without some that can be improved but keeping that in mind they need to improve at a greater rate than those of similar quality at other clubs do and there is plenty of evidence that some ordinary players at other clubs are actually doing that already. Nor is the team devoid of youth that must be assessed and transitioned.

So how long should all that take is the question and what pain should we endure in getting to that?

Again to be objective about that let's have a look at the South's scenario and the pending arrival of Bennett.

Will Bennett play favourites with players or will he make tough decisions?
Will Bennett quickly drop players who don't perform?
Will Bennett be frightened to go to his youth in an effort to get better results both short and long term?
Will Bennett be able to solicit players from other clubs ?
Will Bennett pull Walker & Mitchell into line?
Will Bennett move Mitchell to the centre's if it suits the team balance?

Bennett will be all over it by the time the season starts and will show the players who the boss is right from day 1 and results will flow automatically off of that.

Flanagan thus far has IMO been more Hook, Mc Fookknuckle who coached to try and survive rather than C B, W B, T R, I C who coach to win and that is what is most disappointing thing.

Almost every mistake made by Chinless, Mc Fookknuckle & Hook has already been repeated by Flanno and as a result Dragon's Footy remains alive & well at our club and I firmly believe that would not be the case if any of the other 4 coaches were at our club and I would even include Ryles as well for that matter.

It may well take time to sort it all out but the notion that decision making thus far is not highly questionable and in fact very poor in many circumstances is just sticking your head in the sand and the very reason we get f**ked over so many times.

I have given Flanno a bit of reprieve because I just found out we share the same birthday (not year) so that should count for something but in the end he is a well seasoned premiership winning coach and must be judged accordingly as was Madge at Souths and Green at the Cowboys.

Can agree on most your points OT, but not Ryles, no one knows what he would have done and I still believe a rookie coach is not what we needed. I look at Hasler and see what is happening over at the Titans with a far better roster, at one stage I think he was a candidate but declined because I think he was already sourced by the Titans.

 

[Old Timer]

Can agree on most your points OT, but not Ryles, no one knows what he would have done and I still believe a rookie coach is not what we needed. I look at Hasler and see what is happening over at the Titans with a far better roster, at one stage I think he was a candidate but declined because I think he was already sourced by the Titans.

The point I am making re Ryles is that IMO he would not have fallen into the trap of Dragon’s Footy
He wanted control in his hands only and as such would dictate to others rather than compromising which is what I believe Flanno has done.

 

[since77]

The point I am making re Ryles is that IMO he would not have fallen into the trap of Dragon’s Footy
He wanted control in his hands only and as such would dictate to others rather than compromising which is what I believe Flanno has done.

And what exactly does "Ryles footy" look like? I'm too scared to ponder that one.....
I'm betting we would have maybe won one game so far under Ryles. Dodged a huge bullet with that one.
Flanno is making some controversial decisions - Eg loyalty to Lawrie and Bird - mystifying to me, but has got things like Lomax to wing spot on correct - the first coach to unlock Lomax's talents. Sloan is on the gradual improve. We've looked great at some points this year and woeful at others.
I think Flanno is stuck in a tough spot - caught between appearing vaguely competitive this year and getting our long term future sorted out. He's getting some things right, some wrong, IMO.
Ultimately its unfair to judge him on year 1. We're climbing out of a deep dark self inflicted hole 12-13 years in the making. There was literally no other coach on the market with better credentials to try and turn this sh*tfight around.
Rookie coach Ryles would have been an unmitigated disaster.

 

[Dragon David]

I notice in that article to Dave was the Panthers offer to Fafita, and how they usually dont go to market for marquee players. Says a lot about their pathways and ours considering the talent they have lost over the years and are about to lose. Just business as usual over Penrith way and possibly another premiership.

Agree justa. I just finished posting something on the David Fifita thread.

 

[Old Timer]

And what exactly does "Ryles footy" look like? I'm too scared to ponder that one.....
I'm betting we would have maybe won one game so far under Ryles. Dodged a huge bullet with that one.
Flanno is making some controversial decisions - Eg loyalty to Lawrie and Bird - mystifying to me, but has got things like Lomax to wing spot on correct - the first coach to unlock Lomax's talents. Sloan is on the gradual improve. We've looked great at some points this year and woeful at others.
I think Flanno is stuck in a tough spot - caught between appearing vaguely competitive this year and getting our long term future sorted out. He's getting some things right, some wrong, IMO.
Ultimately its unfair to judge him on year 1. We're climbing out of a deep dark self inflicted hole 12-13 years in the making. There was literally no other coach on the market with better credentials to try and turn this sh*tfight around.
Rookie coach Ryles would have been an unmitigated disaster.

Ryles was not willing to compromise to the club in any way shape or form so pulled out of the race so there was only 1 coach left standing and what does that coach look like?

He has Dean Young sitting next to him, his own son at 5/8, Ben Hunt at 7 and still the same old piss poor 5th tackle kicking game.

If ever something has killed this club it is Hunt's kicking game and total inability to take ownership of the clutch moments.

Ryles for sure would never have accepted any of that and IMO we would have been better off for it.

Flanno is well and truly compromised and fits perfectly into the structure that the board want.

 

[Slippery Morris]

Flanno has made some tough calls one being our biggest star in Lomax being moved from Centre to wing. He has played out of his skin since. Hook could not get Lomax to perform no way near as good as Mary had him going. Lomax seems to have similar traits to other difficult players that don't get their way but Flanno has him playing well whilst not getting his way. That sets Flanno apart right there from Price, Mary and Hook as those 3 jokers would cave to Lomax demands or create a bigger mess that it was.

Persisting with Bird at centre, a guy that he won a comp with. Well again if it works why change it. I don't agree with it but Flanno won a comp with it so he would know best. Te way I look at it Boyd is to Bennett as Bird is to Flanno (Boyd much better I might add). In terms of recruitment, OT failed to mention RFM, Leilua, Sele and Eisenhuth. Are you saying they are not better than Billy Burns, Musgrove, McCullough and Josh Kerr? I feel Saints depth is far better in the forwards now that it was the last few years. Nu Brown is no mug and a very capable backup for the hooking role and not a bad buy at all.

As for favourites in Kyle Flanno, has he really been that bad not to warrant 5/8? I think he has been pretty good. A 5/8 that can defend. He is an improvement to Amone.

In a short time Flanno has done quite a few changes and at least he is trying to lure some great talent. His problem is the previous 3 coaches have lowered the appeal for this club so much that poor Flanno is struggling to convince them times are changing which I am sure he is trying to achieve with some good results this year. If he finishes ahead of the likes of the Dogs, Tigers and Titans then players may start looking at Saints and saying you know what, I have better chance of winning a comp with Saints than them 3 teams and Saints may have an influx of players available and have the money to pick and choose who they get.

The SG Ball team winning and the talent on show has Flanno looking good so far for the future as if he can get 5-6 of those guys to filter up to the top squad in a couple of years they will be in good shape. Hook especially, Price and Mary don't have that vision and ability to utilise the youngsters as good as Flanno can. Just look at the Sharks. Been finals bound since Flanno left. Before Flanno were rubbish. The Sharks still think highly of him so he can't be that bad.

 

[Kolum Kid]

The point I am making re Ryles is that IMO he would not have fallen into the trap of Dragon’s Footy
He wanted control in his hands only and as such would dictate to others rather than compromising which is what I believe Flanno has done.

My view for what it is worth.
Ryles wanted control however I doubt he was getting it and he knew that so pulled the pin,
Flanno would have liked control but right or wrong compromised in order to get the job. He probably knew he wouldn't get the job if he had insisted. I say this as lots have said, The BOD is the biggest hurdle at the club. Having said all this I still think Flanno is moving in the right direction all be it slowly.

 

[Dragon the chain]

My view for what it is worth.
Ryles wanted control however I doubt he was getting it and he knew that so pulled the pin,
Flanno would have liked control but right or wrong compromised in order to get the job. He probably knew he wouldn't get the job if he had insisted. I say this as lots have said, The BOD is the biggest hurdle at the club. Having said all this I still think Flanno is moving in the right direction all be it slowly.

Ryles had agreed to take the job. But he changed his mind at the last minute when Melbourne offered him a job.

 

[since77]

Ryles was not willing to compromise to the club in any way shape or form so pulled out of the race so there was only 1 coach left standing and what does that coach look like?

He has Dean Young sitting next to him, his own son at 5/8, Ben Hunt at 7 and still the same old piss poor 5th tackle kicking game.

If ever something has killed this club it is Hunt's kicking game and total inability to take ownership of the clutch moments.

Ryles for sure would never have accepted any of that and IMO we would have been better off for it.

Flanno is well and truly compromised and fits perfectly into the structure that the board want.

Agree 100% on Hunt. We have common ground there.
But I think you need to let your prejudices go. We objectively have a better 6 than last year, coaches son or not. He wasn't Trent Robinson's son when the Roosters recruited him. Dean Young? Never got the hate for the guy.
Flanno was 100% the best guy available for the mess we are in. Is he getting everything right? Nope. But despite the side's schizophrenic performances, they have objectively improved on the deplorable rabble that ran out last year and disgraced the jersey every time they ran onto the field.
Last time I checked there wasn't a huge queue of clubs looking to sign up L plate Ryles whilst Flanno would walk into a job at many of the next clubs that will be on the market for a coach.
I don't believe for a minute that we'd be in a better position had we got Ryles. I shudder to think how bad that would have been.