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This new stadium for Sydney better not be multi-purpose

kmav23

Juniors
Messages
2,014
AFL and NRL have billion dollar tv deals....and players are earning into millions

why on earth does govt need to spend on these stadiums for private sector ?

govt need to spend on education, health and infrastructure....

sports entertainment it should not

spend on universities who can produce the best scientists and doctors..or charities

When you are paying players over 1 million dollars a year... then dont ask tax payers money


spending too much on stadiums?

As a sports fan, I love a good stadium. As an AFL fan, we’ve enjoyed the ovals and upgrades to facilities that are announced on a regular basis. However, as an Australian taxpayer, I have to ask whether it’s all a bit too much.

In recent times, more than 1.8 billion dollars has been allocated to stadium builds – and yes, much of that comes from the Adelaide and Perth developments. $100 million of it will come from the AFL and various crickeet trusts.

The $1.8 billion rises to $2.5 billion if you factor in the last eight years (which includes a $464 million MCG Northern Stand Redevelopment, though admittedly only $77 million came from the Victorian government). The question we should all be asking is just how State Governments will find the $1.7 billion to build stadiums.

You have to remember that these are the same states complaining they don’t have enough funds, in particular South Australia and Western Australia, who complain about funding shortfalls every time the budget is due.

Apparently, though, they think nothing of spending an easy half billion dollars on professional sports infrastucture.

In Perth, NIB stadium has received approval for an $82 million stadium upgrade, while at the same time the government intends to spend another $700 million on a stadium that will be used maybe 25 times a year for AFL matches.

From a pure economic standpoint, wouldnt that extra $85 million best have been invested in the 60,000 seat stadium that will sell out perhaps twice a year, if only to justify the return on investment over time?

Instead, you have union, A-League, and potentially rugby league playing out of the little 25,000 seat rectangular stadium, cricket playing out of the WACA, and AFL having this massive tailored stadium more or less to itself.

In Adelaide, the economics border on ridiculous. The A-League club will play out of the 15,000 seat Hindmarsh stadium, while two AFL clubs will play out of the new, shiny Adelaide Oval they will share with cricket. Cricket barely utilises the ground to its current capacity, let alone requires the new one.

In Sydney, the SCG has approved a 186 million dollar upgrade – whole stadiums have been built for this recently – in a stadium that is almost never full, while the government is upgrading the showgrounds despite there being an 80,000-seat oval stadium right next door, and an underutilised 36,000 seat stadium across the city.

In Queensland the government has recently built Carrara, which aside from Commonwealth Games use will only be used for 11 AFL matches a year, while across the coast is a rectangular stadium that is also underused by its tenants.

Yes, I get that soccer, league and union are vastly better to watch in rectangular stadia. I just can’t justify it in the face of hospital closures and extensive waiting lists for critical procedures. I can’t justify it when funding for life saving medical treatments is being cut or is non-existent. I known where I’d rather our taxpayer funds go.

People won’t die if they have to watch Australian football at ANZ Stadium, people won’t die if they have to watch football at the new Perth stadium. Then there are other issues. There are 180,000 homeless people in Australia that need help – they won’t be able to sleep on the bright red Carrara terraces. Tens of thousands of people live below the poverty line – they wont be able to afford the food at ANZ stadium anyway. Thousands more are out of work and will not benefit from these stadiums one iota. The refugee issue gets no closer to being solved by building the stadium at Burswood, unless it will house the boat arrivals when they get here.

Where have our governments’ priorities gone when giant edifices which primarily benefit professional sporting organisations that rake in millions per year in profit are put ahead of public health and safety? Surely if we must build stadiums – and I get that sport is an essential part of Australian culture – then the public have a right to expect more bang for their dollar?

It’s not like the average community player will benefit. Most will never set foot on the turf, or do anything other than sit in one of the brightly coloured seats for which they have had to mortgage thir house, and sell their cars in order to buy a pie and a beer in a plastic cup.

Cricket and the AFL share grounds across the country, while rugby league, union and football have all been played on the MCG and Etihad. Not to mention the Gabba, Carrara and the SCG. It can be done, it should be done. Theroetically the more use you get out of a stadium, the cheaper it should be for patrons to enter. Compare AFL entry prices at the MCG with anywhere else in the country for most sports.

Stadiums should be for the consideration of all.

Major Stadium Grants in 2011-12
Skoda Stadium (Sydney Showgrounds) – $20 million
Metricon Stadium (Gold Coast) – $144 million
Sydney Cricket Ground – $186 million
Melbourne Cricket Ground (Southern Stand) – $55 million
Simonds Stadium (Geelong) – $29 million
Adelaide Oval – $570 million
Burswood Stadium (Perth) – $700 million
NIB Stadium (Perth) – $82.5 million
Bellerive OVal (Tas) – $21 million (applied for)
WIN Stadium (NSW) – $29.8 million
Penrith Stadium (NSW) – $5 million
———————————————-
Total: 1.8 billion


http://tensport.com.au/news/theroar/AFL-Are-we-spending-too-much-on-stadiums.htm
 
Last edited:

Brutus

Referee
Messages
26,244
So the Bulldogs and Tigers I am sure would at least play 6 games out of this stadium each. Whom else do you see using this stadium?

To be honest, I can't think of any location in Sydney that you would be able to get 3 clubs to play out of other than Homebush.


Souths will probably take games there.

They may as well considering they're already playing games out of Homebush.
 

big hit!

Bench
Messages
3,452
Bulldogs 10 of 12 games
Tigers 9 of 12
Parra 3 of 12 ('blockbuster games)
Panthers maybe 2 of 12
Wanderers all 13?

That would be 37 rectangular games.

I could even see some other Sydney teams playing home games there against western suburbs teams.

Should be enough to force it to be rectangular.

Is that for a Liverpool facility?

How is Liverpool anywhere near Penrith? The only thing they share is a location in the Western Sydney region.

Wanderers 13
Canterbury 12
Tigers 9

+ any finals, Socceroos games, Wallabies against minnows, etc

That's about it, and it should still be more than enough to ensure its rectangular than modifying it to accommodate 3 AFL games.
 

BuffaloRules

Coach
Messages
14,278
AFL and NRL have billion dollar tv deals....and players are earning into millions

why on earth does govt need to spend on these stadiums for private sector ?

govt need to spend on education, health and infrastructure....

sports entertainment it should not

spend on universities who can produce the best scientists and doctors..or charities

When you are paying players over 1 million dollars a year... then dont ask tax payers money


http://tensport.com.au/news/theroar/AFL-Are-we-spending-too-much-on-stadiums.htm

Why are you including the NRL in your rant?

Out of the $1.8 Billion you quote, there is about $30 Million spent on stadiums that RL teams play out of...
 

de$$ie

Juniors
Messages
413
AFL and NRL have billion dollar tv deals....and players are earning into millions

why on earth does govt need to spend on these stadiums for private sector ?

govt need to spend on education, health and infrastructure....

sports entertainment it should not

spend on universities who can produce the best scientists and doctors..or charities

When you are paying players over 1 million dollars a year... then dont ask tax payers money


spending too much on stadiums?

As a sports fan, I love a good stadium. As an AFL fan, we?ve enjoyed the ovals and upgrades to facilities that are announced on a regular basis. However, as an Australian taxpayer, I have to ask whether it?s all a bit too much.

In recent times, more than 1.8 billion dollars has been allocated to stadium builds ? and yes, much of that comes from the Adelaide and Perth developments. $100 million of it will come from the AFL and various crickeet trusts.

The $1.8 billion rises to $2.5 billion if you factor in the last eight years (which includes a $464 million MCG Northern Stand Redevelopment, though admittedly only $77 million came from the Victorian government). The question we should all be asking is just how State Governments will find the $1.7 billion to build stadiums.

You have to remember that these are the same states complaining they don?t have enough funds, in particular South Australia and Western Australia, who complain about funding shortfalls every time the budget is due.

Apparently, though, they think nothing of spending an easy half billion dollars on professional sports infrastucture.

In Perth, NIB stadium has received approval for an $82 million stadium upgrade, while at the same time the government intends to spend another $700 million on a stadium that will be used maybe 25 times a year for AFL matches.

From a pure economic standpoint, wouldnt that extra $85 million best have been invested in the 60,000 seat stadium that will sell out perhaps twice a year, if only to justify the return on investment over time?

Instead, you have union, A-League, and potentially rugby league playing out of the little 25,000 seat rectangular stadium, cricket playing out of the WACA, and AFL having this massive tailored stadium more or less to itself.

In Adelaide, the economics border on ridiculous. The A-League club will play out of the 15,000 seat Hindmarsh stadium, while two AFL clubs will play out of the new, shiny Adelaide Oval they will share with cricket. Cricket barely utilises the ground to its current capacity, let alone requires the new one.

In Sydney, the SCG has approved a 186 million dollar upgrade ? whole stadiums have been built for this recently ? in a stadium that is almost never full, while the government is upgrading the showgrounds despite there being an 80,000-seat oval stadium right next door, and an underutilised 36,000 seat stadium across the city.

In Queensland the government has recently built Carrara, which aside from Commonwealth Games use will only be used for 11 AFL matches a year, while across the coast is a rectangular stadium that is also underused by its tenants.

Yes, I get that soccer, league and union are vastly better to watch in rectangular stadia. I just can?t justify it in the face of hospital closures and extensive waiting lists for critical procedures. I can?t justify it when funding for life saving medical treatments is being cut or is non-existent. I known where I?d rather our taxpayer funds go.

People won?t die if they have to watch Australian football at ANZ Stadium, people won?t die if they have to watch football at the new Perth stadium. Then there are other issues. There are 180,000 homeless people in Australia that need help ? they won?t be able to sleep on the bright red Carrara terraces. Tens of thousands of people live below the poverty line ? they wont be able to afford the food at ANZ stadium anyway. Thousands more are out of work and will not benefit from these stadiums one iota. The refugee issue gets no closer to being solved by building the stadium at Burswood, unless it will house the boat arrivals when they get here.

Where have our governments? priorities gone when giant edifices which primarily benefit professional sporting organisations that rake in millions per year in profit are put ahead of public health and safety? Surely if we must build stadiums ? and I get that sport is an essential part of Australian culture ? then the public have a right to expect more bang for their dollar?

It?s not like the average community player will benefit. Most will never set foot on the turf, or do anything other than sit in one of the brightly coloured seats for which they have had to mortgage thir house, and sell their cars in order to buy a pie and a beer in a plastic cup.

Cricket and the AFL share grounds across the country, while rugby league, union and football have all been played on the MCG and Etihad. Not to mention the Gabba, Carrara and the SCG. It can be done, it should be done. Theroetically the more use you get out of a stadium, the cheaper it should be for patrons to enter. Compare AFL entry prices at the MCG with anywhere else in the country for most sports.

Stadiums should be for the consideration of all.

Major Stadium Grants in 2011-12
Skoda Stadium (Sydney Showgrounds) ? $20 million
Metricon Stadium (Gold Coast) ? $144 million
Sydney Cricket Ground ? $186 million
Melbourne Cricket Ground (Southern Stand) ? $55 million
Simonds Stadium (Geelong) ? $29 million
Adelaide Oval ? $570 million
Burswood Stadium (Perth) ? $700 million
NIB Stadium (Perth) ? $82.5 million
Bellerive OVal (Tas) ? $21 million (applied for)
WIN Stadium (NSW) ? $29.8 million
Penrith Stadium (NSW) ? $5 million
???????????????-
Total: 1.8 billion


http://tensport.com.au/news/theroar/AFL-Are-we-spending-too-much-on-stadiums.htm

sports is a distraction from the real issues. like gay marriage /s
 

kmav23

Juniors
Messages
2,014
Why are you including the NRL in your rant?

Out of the $1.8 Billion you quote, there is about $30 Million spent on stadiums that RL teams play out of...


No one still has answered why billion dollar sports industries need govt handouts ?

Govt should not give 1 cent.....when players are on millions of dollars...
 
Messages
21,875
Is that for a Liverpool facility?

How is Liverpool anywhere near Penrith? The only thing they share is a location in the Western Sydney region.

Wanderers 13
Canterbury 12
Tigers 9

+ any finals, Socceroos games, Wallabies against minnows, etc

That's about it, and it should still be more than enough to ensure its rectangular than modifying it to accommodate 3 AFL games.


I didnt say it was near Penrith.

My idea would be for the panthers and eels to take their home games against the dogs and tigers there in order to maximise revenue.

souths could even do the same.
 
Messages
21,875
No one still has answered why billion dollar sports industries need govt handouts ?

Govt should not give 1 cent.....when players are on millions of dollars...

Then the government should withdraw funding to all industries.

The argument here is that stadia is public infrastructure. The government would retain ownership.
 
Messages
21,875
So the Bulldogs and Tigers I am sure would at least play 6 games out of this stadium each. Whom else do you see using this stadium?

To be honest, I can't think of any location in Sydney that you would be able to get 3 clubs to play out of other than Homebush.


Bulldogs and tigers would play more than 6 each. Would be closer to 9 each.

3 nrl teams would be an ideal scenario. But you're right , sydney geography is pretty difficult.
 

Dogs Of War

Coach
Messages
12,719
Bulldogs 10 of 12 games
Tigers 9 of 12
Parra 3 of 12 ('blockbuster games)
Panthers maybe 2 of 12
Wanderers all 13?

That would be 37 rectangular games.

I could even see some other Sydney teams playing home games there against western suburbs teams.

Should be enough to force it to be rectangular.

I would see it being more like this.

Bulldogs - 6 games. We would still play our biggest games at Stadium Australia (vs Souths, Parra, Dragons, Broncos and whichever 2 teams are flavour of the month)
Tigers - 9 games
WSW - Split with Parra stadium, possibly 6-7 games
Waratahs - 1 game
Wallabies/Socceroos - 1 games at a stretch. ANZ would still be preferred.

And maybe some concerts out that way if they be cost effective.
 

kmav23

Juniors
Messages
2,014
Then the government should withdraw funding to all industries.

The argument here is that stadia is public infrastructure. The government would retain ownership.

sports stadium is a public infrastructure ?

transport to the stadiums is but not the stadium itself

Its

1)entertainment venue

2)billion dollar industry which can pay for itself..

3) and not everyone watches sports..

some people like movies over sports should govt own cinemas..?
 
Messages
33,280
Without the NRL this new stadium would be money pissed away in to a black hole, and to a far lesser extent the Wanderers and soccer which would basically ensure the stadium is used all year round, so If it isn't a rectangular stadium then I should hope the ARLC do not commit and leave it to the AFL then they can do what they want with it.

Hopefully the ARLC and FFA work together on this issue. Both codes can provide more than just a regular season matches as well. Socceroos have plenty of matches during the year and rugby league can provide internationals as well (if they get internationals sorted out properly)

The NRL is the big ticket here. Established fan base, a fair number of teams that could easily play 1 or 2 matches there each week. If it doesn't suit the best interest of the NRL then no thanks no need to jump on board.
 
Messages
21,875
I would see it being more like this.

Bulldogs - 6 games. We would still play our biggest games at Stadium Australia (vs Souths, Parra, Dragons, Broncos and whichever 2 teams are flavour of the month)
Tigers - 9 games
WSW - Split with Parra stadium, possibly 6-7 games
Waratahs - 1 game
Wallabies/Socceroos - 1 games at a stretch. ANZ would still be preferred.

And maybe some concerts out that way if they be cost effective.


Where would the other 4 home games for the dogs be?

Even if you take 2 blockbusters per year to anz that leaves 10 games. Lets say you take 2 further low drawing games to the coast or to qld , that still leaves 8 games.
 

El Diablo

Post Whore
Messages
94,107
AFL and NRL have billion dollar tv deals....and players are earning into millions

why on earth does govt need to spend on these stadiums for private sector ?

govt need to spend on education, health and infrastructure....

sports entertainment it should not

spend on universities who can produce the best scientists and doctors..or charities

When you are paying players over 1 million dollars a year... then dont ask tax payers money


spending too much on stadiums?

As a sports fan, I love a good stadium. As an AFL fan, we?ve enjoyed the ovals and upgrades to facilities that are announced on a regular basis. However, as an Australian taxpayer, I have to ask whether it?s all a bit too much.

In recent times, more than 1.8 billion dollars has been allocated to stadium builds ? and yes, much of that comes from the Adelaide and Perth developments. $100 million of it will come from the AFL and various crickeet trusts.

The $1.8 billion rises to $2.5 billion if you factor in the last eight years (which includes a $464 million MCG Northern Stand Redevelopment, though admittedly only $77 million came from the Victorian government). The question we should all be asking is just how State Governments will find the $1.7 billion to build stadiums.

You have to remember that these are the same states complaining they don?t have enough funds, in particular South Australia and Western Australia, who complain about funding shortfalls every time the budget is due.

Apparently, though, they think nothing of spending an easy half billion dollars on professional sports infrastucture.

In Perth, NIB stadium has received approval for an $82 million stadium upgrade, while at the same time the government intends to spend another $700 million on a stadium that will be used maybe 25 times a year for AFL matches.

From a pure economic standpoint, wouldnt that extra $85 million best have been invested in the 60,000 seat stadium that will sell out perhaps twice a year, if only to justify the return on investment over time?

Instead, you have union, A-League, and potentially rugby league playing out of the little 25,000 seat rectangular stadium, cricket playing out of the WACA, and AFL having this massive tailored stadium more or less to itself.

In Adelaide, the economics border on ridiculous. The A-League club will play out of the 15,000 seat Hindmarsh stadium, while two AFL clubs will play out of the new, shiny Adelaide Oval they will share with cricket. Cricket barely utilises the ground to its current capacity, let alone requires the new one.

In Sydney, the SCG has approved a 186 million dollar upgrade ? whole stadiums have been built for this recently ? in a stadium that is almost never full, while the government is upgrading the showgrounds despite there being an 80,000-seat oval stadium right next door, and an underutilised 36,000 seat stadium across the city.

In Queensland the government has recently built Carrara, which aside from Commonwealth Games use will only be used for 11 AFL matches a year, while across the coast is a rectangular stadium that is also underused by its tenants.

Yes, I get that soccer, league and union are vastly better to watch in rectangular stadia. I just can?t justify it in the face of hospital closures and extensive waiting lists for critical procedures. I can?t justify it when funding for life saving medical treatments is being cut or is non-existent. I known where I?d rather our taxpayer funds go.

People won?t die if they have to watch Australian football at ANZ Stadium, people won?t die if they have to watch football at the new Perth stadium. Then there are other issues. There are 180,000 homeless people in Australia that need help ? they won?t be able to sleep on the bright red Carrara terraces. Tens of thousands of people live below the poverty line ? they wont be able to afford the food at ANZ stadium anyway. Thousands more are out of work and will not benefit from these stadiums one iota. The refugee issue gets no closer to being solved by building the stadium at Burswood, unless it will house the boat arrivals when they get here.

Where have our governments? priorities gone when giant edifices which primarily benefit professional sporting organisations that rake in millions per year in profit are put ahead of public health and safety? Surely if we must build stadiums ? and I get that sport is an essential part of Australian culture ? then the public have a right to expect more bang for their dollar?

It?s not like the average community player will benefit. Most will never set foot on the turf, or do anything other than sit in one of the brightly coloured seats for which they have had to mortgage thir house, and sell their cars in order to buy a pie and a beer in a plastic cup.

Cricket and the AFL share grounds across the country, while rugby league, union and football have all been played on the MCG and Etihad. Not to mention the Gabba, Carrara and the SCG. It can be done, it should be done. Theroetically the more use you get out of a stadium, the cheaper it should be for patrons to enter. Compare AFL entry prices at the MCG with anywhere else in the country for most sports.

Stadiums should be for the consideration of all.

Major Stadium Grants in 2011-12
Skoda Stadium (Sydney Showgrounds) ? $20 million
Metricon Stadium (Gold Coast) ? $144 million
Sydney Cricket Ground ? $186 million
Melbourne Cricket Ground (Southern Stand) ? $55 million
Simonds Stadium (Geelong) ? $29 million
Adelaide Oval ? $570 million
Burswood Stadium (Perth) ? $700 million
NIB Stadium (Perth) ? $82.5 million
Bellerive OVal (Tas) ? $21 million (applied for)
WIN Stadium (NSW) ? $29.8 million
Penrith Stadium (NSW) ? $5 million
???????????????-
Total: 1.8 billion


http://tensport.com.au/news/theroar/AFL-Are-we-spending-too-much-on-stadiums.htm

it was $45 million
 
Messages
21,875
sports stadium is a public infrastructure ?

transport to the stadiums is but not the stadium itself

Its

1)entertainment venue

2)billion dollar industry which can pay for itself..

3) and not everyone watches sports..

some people like movies over sports should govt own cinemas..?


Not everyone goes to the museum either. Doesn't stop government funding.

And they are public infrastructure. They are owned by the government ( scg , sfs , parra , Newcastle , anz)

And unlike other pieces of infrastructure , they are either close ti being revenue neutral or in some cases they are actually revenue positive.
 

El Diablo

Post Whore
Messages
94,107
any NRL team should never agree to play at some bullshit multipurpose stadium

Liverpool and Penrith seem like stupid locations too
 

kmav23

Juniors
Messages
2,014
Not everyone goes to the museum either. Doesn't stop government funding.

And they are public infrastructure. They are owned by the government ( scg , sfs , parra , Newcastle , anz)

And unlike other pieces of infrastructure , they are either close ti being revenue neutral or in some cases they are actually revenue positive.

The main point is the Museums are not making billions in tv rights are paying the employees million dollar contracts...

Museums fall under education

parks and community clubs are one thing

billion dollar sports industries should pay for themselves
 
Messages
21,875
The main point is the Museums are not making billions in tv rights are paying the employees million dollar contracts...

Museums fall under education

parks and community clubs are one thing

billion dollar sports industries should pay for themselves



Despite your assertions that they are 'billion dollar' sports industries. They simply don't have enough money on hand to pay for stadia themselves.


So instead what the government do is , pay the upfront costs of building the stadia and then they charge the clubs that use it to play there.

So in effect they are providing a type of loan.


Without stadia you can't attract big events. Big events are good for the government and for the people as they provide economic stimulus.

For instance look at the lions union tour coming up. I hate union , but the simple fact is there will be tens of thousands of British tourists coming down for the tour. That is an economic benefit to the state.

Those thousands of tourists wouldn't be coming unless the government built the stadia.
 
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