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Timeline / Details for NSW comps below ARL / NRL

The Partisan

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1,926
With the QRL restructuring the grades below the Intrust Super Cup in 2015 I am know trying to recall how the former Sydney based comps evolved to what is in place now.

Questions like when did Third Grade / Presidents Cup / Under 23's disappear ?


What happened to all those players ?


Looks like the QRL Admin are looking to mirror the NSW Cup / Ron Massey Cup structures as far as I can tell.


Any budding history buffs out there ?
 
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23,953
President's Cup basically became Holden Cup. Ages changed over the years, mainly being U23's and U21's, with periods of U20's and I think U19's.

The 2nd Division, which gave us teams like Penrith and Cronulla, became the Metro Cup, which became the RMC.
 

siv

First Grade
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6,563
1926 we reverted from any club playing 3rd Grade to just District clubs

Third Grade lasted until 1972 with a short return in 1982-84

U23s existed 1973-1981 and returned 1984-87

Then when expansion in 1988 things changed with U23s grade scrapped - 1st level of NSWRL lost

U21s was then promoted in 1988 from juniors to seniors

After SL War - U21s was scrapped - 2nd grade of NSWRL lost

Jersey Flegg U19s was promoted to be U20s in 1997 and properly in 1999 with it going national in 2008

Reserve Grade revered to NSW Cup in 2008, but even today is really a NSW ARL/NRL team based team reserve grade
 
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siv

First Grade
Messages
6,563
Second Division has existed in numerous names

It was formed in 1963 and ran until 1976

It returned in 1990 and evolved into the RM Cup

It was always made up of non ARL or NRL clubs
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,563
So at one stage NSWRL had just before ARL expansion

First Grade
Reserve Grade
U23s
Presidents Cup U21s
SG Ball U19s
Jersey Flegg U17s
Harold Matthews U15s

and

Second Division

There was never a problem with developing juniors until the NRL took over
 
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magpie4ever

First Grade
Messages
9,992
So at one stage NSWRL had just before ARL expansion

First Grade
Reserve Grade
U23s
Presidents Cup U21s
SG Ball U19s
Jersey Flegg U17s
Harold Matthews U15s

and

Second Division

There was never a problem with developing juniors until the NRL took over

I totally agree with your sentiments regards the lack of junior development under the present arrangements (under the NRL banner).

Harold Matts, SG Ball, Flegg and Presidents Cup undergone many age incarnations over time.

Harold Matts was originally a 2 day U14's district reps carnival before becoming the 1st level of a junior duistrict rep competition.

SG Ball was orginally U15s, than U16s, U17s before going to U18s as it is today.

Flegg U17s, than U19's before realistically evolving into the present day NYC.

President Cup U19s, U20's when U21s (U23s) was part of the senior district team before disapperaing
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,563
Since the NRL took over there was a belief as part of the SL War tat we only needed

NRL with one grade

NSW State League
State U18
State U16

Which was based on the QRL model
 

magpie4ever

First Grade
Messages
9,992
Since the NRL took over there was a belief as part of the SL War tat we only needed

NRL with one grade

NSW State League
State U18
State U16

Which was based on the QRL model

Yeah, unfortunately we are now seeing the result - a drop in the overall standard of grade football including NRL.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
85,176
Professionalism has changed things massively too. Part timers can't compete with players who train fulltime, meaning you're going to have a cut off point where players below NRL level are earning a full time salary (so they don't have to worry about going to work when they should be training/recovering/resting).

Then it just comes down to how many non-NRL top 17 players the game can afford to be paying a full time salary. Too few of these and you don't produce or maintain enough first graders to fill the gaps as they appear.

Anyway, there is a certain percentage and certain class of player that is happy to play and train part time for next to nothing. Once upon a time this included the top players in the game, but has gradually given way to full time professionalism for even the 25th-30th (or lower) best player at each club.

As for the development of young players, the NRL can force most contracted players under the age of 20 out of full time training by such edicts as 'no work, no study, no play', but sooner or later most of them will need to begin training full time if they are to be any hope of improving enough to make it in the NRL. So how do they pay the bills? If they're not getting paid full time (understandable if they're not helping put bums on seats in first grade) they will eventually need to focus on their day jobs.

So the question comes down to how long should non-NRL players stick at rugby league before their chances of signing an NRL contract disappear? Should the NRL or the clubs provide any financial assistance during this time, considering these players contribute nothing to the generation of revenue for the NRL or the clubs?

In my opinion, in a perfect world, anyone good enough to get picked in a second tier comp (NSW/QLD Cup) -- but not good enough for an NRL club's top 30 -- would be entitled to a liveable salary (maybe $80k) to enable them to train full time and provide depth to the NRL clubs. But that's a f**king lot of money, and this isn't a perfect world.
 
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