Wheres Your Loyalty?

[TigerLoyalty]

I have been reading these posts on and off for probably the past 6 - 12 months and only decided to register today.

Do you expect a new player to 1st Grade to perform straight away (it seems alot of you do). I guarantee if you track the performance of some of our superstars at the moment (including Benji, Ayshford and Co.) they all had ordinary initial games in the NRL. Very rarely will a player or future superstar perform right away. Lay off Lazarus, Lui and the like (you may just eat your words in a couple of years time).

Wheres your loyalty boys.

 

[Magpies Forever]

You might also note a lot of us also say 'at this stage' etc. Valid pounts are made that the transition to NRL from State Cup, let alone U20's, is very, very hard and not all make it.

Where a lot of us take issue is the penchant of Sheens to put a player such as Lui (since you mention him) into the main 13 NRL squad in a pivital role when a much better way to progress the bloke would be via interchage for a year or so and gradually test and dveelop him that way.

As for Lazarus you should also note a lot of us are saying he has gotten the bad end of the stick from Teflon by the way he is switiching him around all game from one position to the other- no wonder the blokes had a bad time.

I for one have immense respect for anyone that dons the guernsey, however my respect for Teflon as the puppet master is not that great, has diminished over the years and I feel he has been at WT too long now. Time to let someone else take over the reigns and develop the team.

 

[macnaz]

I think if you read back the other posts you will find 90% ppl here were not critical of Lazarus at all, but critical of Sheens for moving him around and not giving him a chance.
As far as Lui,, maybe 50-50 on opinions , i reckon he is sh*t and when he was played at half ahead of Moltzen i believe i have to right to my opinion and be critcal..
We are loyal, in fact MORE than most supporters, because of our love of the game and the club we care and like to be invloved as mucuh as possible and talk here all year, unlike the weekend warrior who doesnt give a toss until the next game comes around.
Welcome aboard by the way

 

[madunit]

I think some people believe loyalty means blindly accpeting everything that happens and being happy with it.

Loyalty is sticking with your team, through thick and thin. We're still all here talking and supporting our team. we go/watch every game we possibly can.

We make criticisms and give praise when warranted and more foten than not it is constructive.

Accepting mediocrity is not loyalty, it is stupidity and shows a lack of care.

Wanting to see your team succeed and sticking with them through the hard times as well as the good is loyalty.

The fact we all turn up every day to talk the good, bad and indifferent about the team and the game shows our passion.

I think you've got loyalty confused with something stupid.

 

[Vic Mackey]

don't confuse 'loyalty' with 'gullible', 'accepting', 'mediocrity' or even 'stupidity'

 

[macnaz]

Well said MU.

 

[TiggaPlease]

We all still support the Tigers don't we?

I can't say Tim Sheens has named a f**ked team this week and still be loyal?

Of course I can.

I still support the boys even if they are named out of position and play like sh*t because of this.

Just because our confidence sometimes takes a beating because of bizarre selection decisions and the growing injury toll doesn't mean we aren't loyal - It means we are concerned and actually care about the decisions that are being made that affect our club.

Analysis and criticism are a must, and are both more important than blind faith in the powers at the club.

 

[Radical Rat]

I have been reading these posts on and off for probably the past 6 - 12 months and only decided to register today.

Do you expect a new player to 1st Grade to perform straight away (it seems alot of you do). I guarantee if you track the performance of some of our superstars at the moment (including Benji, Ayshford and Co.) they all had ordinary initial games in the NRL. Very rarely will a player or future superstar perform right away. Lay off Lazarus, Lui and the like (you may just eat your words in a couple of years time).

Wheres your loyalty boys.

Mate i'm the same, i've been reading these posts for quite a while as well and only registered recently.

I think all the previous posts by the boys sums it up perfectly. It's nothing to do with loyalty when you question Sheensy's at times, bewildering decisions. You couldn't get a more loyal bunch of blokes that are on here, we just all get disillusioned and frustrated.

When I started reading this forum, I realised that basically all my gripes with what's happening with the Tigers i.e Selections, signings, backline musical chairs, is shared bypretty much every person on here. If we can all see it, why the hell cant someone in the Tigers hierachy. Are they too scared to say anything to Sheens? At the start of the year he was under huge pressure to perform this year, he said himself if he didn't make the finals it was time for him to walk. We win 3 games in a row in rounds 2,3 and 4 and his contract gets extended for another year, it's just insanity.

 

[N.C.]

I have been reading these posts on and off for probably the past 6 - 12 months and only decided to register today.

Do you expect a new player to 1st Grade to perform straight away (it seems alot of you do). I guarantee if you track the performance of some of our superstars at the moment (including Benji, Ayshford and Co.) they all had ordinary initial games in the NRL. Very rarely will a player or future superstar perform right away. Lay off Lazarus, Lui and the like (you may just eat your words in a couple of years time).

Wheres your loyalty boys.

Don't worry, we've given out a fair share of stick to these boys as well.
No-one should be feeling left out...

Welcome.

This place feeds on emotion. A lot of what gets said is strictly from the hip.

Attitudes towards players evolve, just as the players themselves do. Players who don't grow don't get respect.

Coaches who stunt player growth don't get respect either.

Unless you are King Teflon Tim Sheens. Then you get a contract renewal. There's loyalty for you...

 

[TigerLoyalty]

Ok Ive taken on board your comments - I guess I should have left the last line out (we have all supported them through thick and thin etc etc I dont need to go on about that).

I have alot of respect for Sheens as he has runs on the board simple as that. Alot of the onus must be attributed to the players though and their commitment (or lack thereof) over the past few years on missing the 8. Aside from that there had been seasons where we lost 5 - 6 games by 4 or less points. To add we had been hindered by injuries at the wrong times in alot of those seasons.

Although I respect his decisions I do disagree with a few points more so than trying to blood these young guns into the first grade squad. This year, they would be:

- Fitzhenry names in any line-up. I am not going to comment on further on this.

- Cayless being named continually in those early games when (first grade footballer) who one would expect alot more out that simply didnt deliver.

- Probably the biggest gripe of mine would be moving players (in particular Farah) out of a their predominent roles to accomodate injury.

 

[Radical Rat]

Ok Ive taken on board your comments - I guess I should have left the last line out (we have all supported them through thick and thin etc etc I dont need to go on about that).

I have alot of respect for Sheens as he has runs on the board simple as that. Alot of the onus must be attributed to the players though and their commitment (or lack thereof) over the past few years on missing the 8. Aside from that there had been seasons where we lost 5 - 6 games by 4 or less points. To add we had been hindered by injuries at the wrong times in alot of those seasons.

Although I respect his decisions I do disagree with a few points more so than trying to blood these young guns into the first grade squad. This year, they would be:

- Fitzhenry names in any line-up. I am not going to comment on further on this.

- Cayless being named continually in those early games when (first grade footballer) who one would expect alot more out that simply didnt deliver.

- Probably the biggest gripe of mine would be moving players (in particular Farah) out of a their predominent roles to accomodate injury.

Bingo and those issues you named aren't small things. They've cost us and continue to cost us games.

Fair enough if you try something, it f*cks up and you leave it. Sheens doesn't learn from his mistakes and I suspect it's his ego.

How can he justify continually playing the extra outside back (Fitz, Brown, Daniela) on the bench and then playing them for 3 mins a game. That's no exaggeration, they actually are playing the last 3-5 mins a game, we don't need them to play those minutes in the context of the game, it's so Sheens can justify their selections.

We are effectively playing with 16 vs 17 every week. We're not a good enough side to be doing that week in week out.

 

[Magpies Forever]

Ok Ive taken on board your comments - I guess I should have left the last line out (we have all supported them through thick and thin etc etc I dont need to go on about that).

I have alot of respect for Sheens as he has runs on the board simple as that. Alot of the onus must be attributed to the players though and their commitment (or lack thereof) over the past few years on missing the 8. Aside from that there had been seasons where we lost 5 - 6 games by 4 or less points. To add we had been hindered by injuries at the wrong times in alot of those seasons.

Although I respect his decisions I do disagree with a few points more so than trying to blood these young guns into the first grade squad. This year, they would be:

- Fitzhenry names in any line-up. I am not going to comment on further on this.

- Cayless being named continually in those early games when (first grade footballer) who one would expect alot more out that simply didnt deliver.

- Probably the biggest gripe of mine would be moving players (in particular Farah) out of a their predominent roles to accomodate injury.

I too began by being pro Sheens and down on the players, then after a year or so drifted the other way (to the dark side )to being down on Sheens (and Simmons- cant forget him too) when the issues of player selection and recruitment began to drift into my consciousness rather than the poor buggers trying to do their best on the field. The players are responsible for their peroformance on the field IF they are selected in their appropriate positions, if they're selcted out of positon isnt not their fault, if a cioach stubbornly persists with wrong combinations / poorly performing players when there are options available in lower grade trying their best to get a shot- its no one fault except the coach.

You may have seen in some of my previous posts whilst I'm no longer a great fan of Sheens I do respect him and think the honour he has gained for Wests Tigers in 2005, the club's friendly attitude, good community relations are all good. As too with his subsequent commission as ARL coach. However, you can stay too long, get stuck in a comfort zone, think you know everything and there is no other option than your own. I think Sheens is at that stage and should move on- both for his own good and WT- cant live on 2005 forever- its 2010 now, its a professional game and results, not near misses, count. The last straw for me was when he caused the sacking of Longmuir.

As to the team- I'll support them forever- immaterial of what Teflon does to them. Hey, if I can survive the terrible ordeal of Wests Magpies in the late 90's I can out endure anything Teflon causes. GO WESTS TIGERS.

 

[Darth Bobo]

As to the team- I'll support them forever- immaterial of what Teflon does to them. Hey, if I can survive the terrible ordeal of Wests Magpies in the late 90's I can out endure anything Teflon causes. GO WESTS TIGERS.

Those of use from the Balmain side of the merger wern't exactly swimming in success either.

I take the point of the initial post but I don't think you would choose to support the team if you a part timer and with the lack of success and finals exposure if we wern't a loyal bunch we would have jumped ship by now. As has already been pointed out, there is a difference between being vocal and being disloyal.

I honestly felt for Lazzo, how can you be expected to play your natural game when half the time your mind is on where the coach wants you playing from one set of six to the next.

 

[b.bear]

I think some people believe loyalty means blindly accpeting everything that happens and being happy with it.

Loyalty is sticking with your team, through thick and thin. We're still all here talking and supporting our team. we go/watch every game we possibly can.

We make criticisms and give praise when warranted and more foten than not it is constructive.

Accepting mediocrity is not loyalty, it is stupidity and shows a lack of care.

Wanting to see your team succeed and sticking with them through the hard times as well as the good is loyalty.

The fact we all turn up every day to talk the good, bad and indifferent about the team and the game shows our passion.

I think you've got loyalty confused with something stupid.

Agreed.

 

[innsaneink]

Followed the same club and whats evolved from that for 40 years...theres my loyalty

 

[macnaz]

I have alot of respect for Sheens as he has runs on the board simple as that. Alot of the onus must be attributed to the players though and their commitment (or lack thereof)
.

Runs on the board !! well ok lets have a look at his record sheet, he is coaching at around 50% if im not wrong including a virtual Aus side with the Raiders.. Hardly records on the board
Including the cowboys he has made the semi's once in about 12 years .Hardly records on the board

If we looked at a graph of Tims coaching over the last 12 years we would see a line running around the 9-12th area and then 1 massive spike to 1 and back down again, where as some coaches with the runs on the board such as Bennet...it would be stuck near the top, Hasslers would show him building upwards to 1 and level a bit and as so far still hovering up there..

Shines was lucky he had a special bunch of guys who were going to play their own special way and win regardless of his contribution.. If you really think Sheens made us win in 2005 then WHY hasnt he gone anywhere near winning prior to 2005 or since. OK we have lost players etc .. had injurys bla bla bla.... SO have Manly .Storm .Broncos . Dogs( more than most) dragons( look what Bennet has done there ) etc YET they can always stay within reach of the top .. If we have weakneses well its the coaches JOB to adress them areas and build for the future. FMD how many years without a halfback for instance is it going to take..How many years are we going to be in the bottom half of points conseded and so on.... YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO SEE SOME IMPROVEMENT not the same old crap year in and year out.

 

[matty-ducati]

I think we have shown our loyalty to the club by still following them after the last pathetic 4 years. Now its time for the club to show there loyalty to the fans and give them what they want. Anything less then a 8th finish at our club, with the current playing roster is nothing but a big fat F. The club has shown they are more loyal to a coach that is consistant in failing, then they are to the fans who support this club.

Who ever was responsible for giving him a 1 year extension should hold there head in shame, a coach that has failed, a coach that had shuffled players out of position and persisted when loosing, a coach who has failed to retain talent, and a coach who has failed to attract big name players to this club. And before you say "Lote" ill leave you this.... Lote doesnt justify the results we have had for 4 years.

 

[jasonl]

I have been reading these posts on and off for probably the past 6 - 12 months and only decided to register today.

Do you expect a new player to 1st Grade to perform straight away (it seems alot of you do). I guarantee if you track the performance of some of our superstars at the moment (including Benji, Ayshford and Co.) they all had ordinary initial games in the NRL. Very rarely will a player or future superstar perform right away. Lay off Lazarus, Lui and the like (you may just eat your words in a couple of years time).

Wheres your loyalty boys.

Ayshford a superstar?

Guess you're seeing something I'm not.

As to loyalty, here's a news flash Mr 2 Posts:

The men on this board (though I disagree with their opinions frequently) are among the most committed, most passionate, most knowledgeable and most loyal bunch of bastards I have ever come across in over 20 years of dealing with the game at every level.

I realise you only mean well so no flame intended but if I can offer you some free advice - sit back, observe and absorb.

You just might learn something.

Peace.

Jase

 

[hybrid_tiger]

Sheens only has runs on the board at being an absolute myth.

He has made the finals once in the past 12 seasons and three of his four premierships were with a team will of superstars, hardly a miraculous achievement.

His time at the Cowboys and seven out of his eight years with us has shown what type of coach he is.

A "supercoach" would be able to take his team to the top 8 of a 16 team comp more than once in eight years.

 

[851]

Sheens only has runs on the board at being an absolute myth.

He has made the finals once in the past 12 seasons and three of his four premierships were with a team will of superstars, hardly a miraculous achievement.

His time at the Cowboys and seven out of his eight years with us has shown what type of coach he is.

A "supercoach" would be able to take his team to the top 8 of a 16 team comp more than once in eight years.

Could not have said it better myself,hell Langmack could of got us to the finals at least once in the last 4 years.
Sheens with his pet players who never get dropped,and his idiotic team and bench selections he is so far from a super coach it is not funny.