Who could coach this team?

[ThingFish]

Imagine if you will you are Richo. You get the call from Rusty. From a small pool of experienced coaches, and in the new age of ever changing rules, who would be the best person for the job? Who's available? Do you hunt the ESL again? Is Ivan Cleary all we can hope for?

 

[ThingFish]

I'll get the ball rolling. Maybe a David Kidwell? Ex player. Took our 20s to a minor premiership in 2010. Assistant coached to Bellamy. Can't be real happy as assistant to JT?

 

[CAFPOW]

i'm not sure but i think richo no longer has a say who gets to coach souths. isnt that solly's role?

 

[ThingFish]

Richo is the director of football management. Surely that has to include Coaches and coaching staff.

 

[souths_pride]

Richo is the director of football management. Surely that has to include Coaches and coaching staff.

Yeah I think he is pretty much the equivalent of what Phil Gould is at Penrith; he is sort of the middle guy between the CEO and the coach and basically ensures that everything runs smoothly between both the football and business side of things.

As for who should coach us should Madge be sacked, well I always believe in changing for the better and that means only dismissing the coach if there is someone out there who could do BETTER; not the same or worse! I don't believe the South Sydney job is a role for a rookie coach. In saying that, there isn't a lot of experienced coaches out there that are available and that are an improvement on Madge. Ivan Cleary's name has been mentioned but he achieved very little at Penrith and what is more alarming is the style of football he played; Penrith were virtually all over the place in so many aspects its not funny.

Look, I would personally stick with Madge for now. Given that he has won a premiership for us not too long ago and guided us to top 8 finishes in every season that he has been there, it would be harsh to dismiss him now. In the press conference after the game on Thursday night, he stated that there are players who have an attitude problem. I think that is a good move because it means that he is no longer protecting those players. What will be crucial now to his credibility and ultimately, his job security, is how he handles these players and what he does from here. I for one hope he drops these players and gets them as far away from the first grade team as possible until they prove that they are ready to put in.

The other thing that people need to consider is the kind of message that sacking the coach would send to the playing ground. Basically, by getting rid of Maguire it would serve to vindicate the players lackadaisical attitude that we have been seeing in recent weeks. Moreover, where would it leave the new coach in terms of establishing authority over the squad when he arrives? It could become a case of the players indirectly stating "try to work us hard and control us and you'll end up like Madge!" I for one like Madge's disciplinarian attitude and applaud him for making the players work hard. My expectations of players, given the amount of money that they are on, is that they put in the same amount of effort and time into training that a regular citizen would commit to in his/her full time job. If those players don't want to do that then they can piss off and get another job. You can bet your lives that they will soon realize and appreciate that football is a pretty sweet gig compared to some of the other jobs out there. Basically, there needs to be someone in charge to control all these players because many of them have massive egos from the fame, money and status they have achieved in order to prevent anarchy; that man is the coach. I think we all seem to forget how complacent the playing squad was before Michael Maguire arrived under John Lang and I for one do not want to return to those days. Player power has gotten out of control in the modern game and I for one like the fact that we have a coach that won't tolerate any bullshit!

 

[Smirrors]

Gordon Tallis would be great, give them some mongrel.

 

[Rabbit toes]

Gordon Tallis would be great, give them some mongrel.

Tallis was the forwards coach a few years back and was shit. That's why he's in commentary

 

[Pommy]

It's ok Madge saying players have an attitude problem, but what's the cause of that? It seems more and more likely that it's him, which is unfortunate. I think he really f**ked up last Sunday with the whole Christening saga. Destroying moral for a couple of hours on the training pitch? Doesn't really seem like a worth while battle for him to pick.

 

[souths_pride]

It's ok Madge saying players have an attitude problem, but what's the cause of that? It seems more and more likely that it's him, which is unfortunate. I think he really f**ked up last Sunday with the whole Christening saga. Destroying moral for a couple of hours on the training pitch? Doesn't really seem like a worth while battle for him to pick.

I think it all stems from the players and coach having a clash of ethics in regards to responding to defeats and bad performances. Michael Maguire is a super competitive coach who believes that the best way of overcoming a defeat is to work hard and train your butts off. Some of the players may believe that getting away from it all and clearing your head is the best way to get over a bad loss. Given the intense nature of the NRL, I'm likely to believe that the former is the way to go, given what the players are being paid.

As for the whole Christening saga, I would be careful about reading too much into that as we don't know the full details yet. I'm sure the most likely scenario was that Madge let the players go to the christening but told the players there would be training afterwards. In any case, I think players need to realise that their performances have not been good enough and that they need to put in the effort on the training paddock to turn things around. I also think they need to get over things; they need to realise who their daddy is and that football is a job as well as hobby.

 

[rabbitohs95]

I like Maguire but I think he really fails to adapt to new things.

He has instilled his style of coaching so much into the team that they fail to play off the cuff football when it's needed. His military style training is too much for the players which has gotten them on his bad side.

I think he just needs to concentrate his energy and time across the board as opposed to teaching them to tuck the ball in and run.

 

[Pommy]

I think it all stems from the players and coach having a clash of ethics in regards to responding to defeats and bad performances. Michael Maguire is a super competitive coach who believes that the best way of overcoming a defeat is to work hard and train your butts off. Some of the players may believe that getting away from it all and clearing your head is the best way to get over a bad loss. Given the intense nature of the NRL, I'm likely to believe that the former is the way to go, given what the players are being paid.

As for the whole Christening saga, I would be careful about reading too much into that as we don't know the full details yet. I'm sure the most likely scenario was that Madge let the players go to the christening but told the players there would be training afterwards. In any case, I think players need to realise that their performances have not been good enough and that they need to put in the effort on the training paddock to turn things around. I also think they need to get over things; they need to realise who their daddy is and that football is a job as well as hobby.

I'm not sure it works like that. Infact im sure it doesn't. If you get a dictator who's so determined he is right and to hell what anyone else thinks people aren't going to follow you and your not going to get a team bond.
A leader needs to be able to inspire his men not just shout at them, because after a while shouting just turns in to white noise.
From my own experience in the military being both led and being a leader and what I understand of Michael Maguire style it seems to be exactly what you are trained not to do. It will work for a while but it wont last long term and that's what seems to ahve happened.

 

[souths_pride]

I like Maguire but I think he really fails to adapt to new things.

He has instilled his style of coaching so much into the team that they fail to play off the cuff football when it's needed. His military style training is too much for the players which has gotten them on his bad side.

I think he just needs to concentrate his energy and time across the board as opposed to teaching them to tuck the ball in and run.

Off the cuff football doesn't work. The broncos and the cowboys - the two best teams in the competition, play structured games. What I do crave however, is a half who possess vision and can play what is in front of him and not just run through the playbook with out any thought to what is happening. That is where the likes of Ben Hunt and Anthony Milford excel - they can analyse a situation and adapt accordingly; Reynolds and Keary can't! Cody Walker looks like that type of player but he has been dropped to reserve grade. Hopefully he gets picked for the next game.

 

[Pommy]

I like Maguire but I think he really fails to adapt to new things.

He has instilled his style of coaching so much into the team that they fail to play off the cuff football when it's needed. His military style training is too much for the players which has gotten them on his bad side.

I think he just needs to concentrate his energy and time across the board as opposed to teaching them to tuck the ball in and run.

Trust me from what we hear in the press, it is not a military style outside of basic training.

 

[souths_pride]

I'm not sure it works like that. Infact im sure it doesn't. If you get a dictator who's so determined he is right and to hell what anyone else thinks people aren't going to follow you and your not going to get a team bond.
A leader needs to be able to inspire his men not just shout at them, because after a while shouting just turns in to white noise.
From my own experience in the military being both led and being a leader and what I understand of Michael Maguire style it seems to be exactly what you are trained not to do. It will work for a while but it wont last long term and that's what seems to ahve happened.

While the guy may be in charge, how do you know that he doesn't seek the counsel of senior players, like Greg and Sam? I think what is happening is that a lot of people are falling into the trap of casting preconceived aspersions over Madge based on nothing concrete. Just because he believes in discipline doesn't mean he is dictator and has anyone who wishes to speak out against his regime taken away by the gestapo.

What I also find funny is that this sort of stuff only comes out when we are losing. Craig Bellamy is a disciplinarian of equal, if not greater, proportions to Maguire and has been for years and I don't hear too many grumblings about him. Coaching is always an interesting conundrum: the coach always gets blamed and credited when things go wrong and right but he is not the one out there playing. I for one would be looking at the players; if the players aren't responding then lets move them on as they are the ones who ultimately have to perform. Madge has proven that he knows what he is doing and can guide a team to a premiership. Therefore, wouldn't it make more sense to move out the trouble makers and bring in players who are hungry to succeed?

 

[DiegoNT]

There's a fine line between being a hard disciplinarian and a complete jerk. If the christening saga is true then maguire has crossed that line.

 

[Pommy]

While the guy may be in charge, how do you know that he doesn't seek the counsel of senior players, like Greg and Sam? I think what is happening is that a lot of people are falling into the trap of casting preconceived aspersions over Madge based on nothing concrete. Just because he believes in discipline doesn't mean he is dictator and has anyone who wishes to speak out against his regime taken away by the gestapo.

What I also find funny is that this sort of stuff only comes out when we are losing. Craig Bellamy is a disciplinarian of equal, if not greater, proportions to Maguire and has been for years and I don't hear too many grumblings about him. Coaching is always an interesting conundrum: the coach always gets blamed and credited when things go wrong and right but he is not the one out there playing. I for one would be looking at the players; if the players aren't responding then lets move them on as they are the ones who ultimately have to perform. Madge has proven that he knows what he is doing and can guide a team to a premiership. Therefore, wouldn't it make more sense to move out the trouble makers and bring in players who are hungry to succeed?

It depends maybe winning the title has gone to his head and made him think he is IT? None of us know what goes on but the fact he has been covering the cameras up in the dressing room goes some way to show its not pretty, that approach doesn't seem to be working as we haven't had an improvement.
Don't forget a lot of those players won the title as well so if thats your argument you can reverse it to say get rid of the coach the players know how to win a title.

For me if there was a christening arranged Madge made a f**k up having training on that day. Even if he said go to church but come to training after. Lets face it few people in 2016 go to a christening for the church part, they go for the party after and to have a laugh with their friends and celebrate the new child. For me theres no scenario where it was a worthy pay off f**king with what could have been a good team bonding session.
These are pro players if they can't catch a ball by now or understand the plays he's trying to impress on them then a couple of hours on a Sunday arvo are not going to make a shite of difference.

 

[doyen]

Sam,GI,George & the players won the comp for Sths--the coach was only a part of it!!

I doubt much of a part really--he instilled some structure & discipline,granted.

But,as someone said on here recently;Sths probably over-achieved in 2014;had a golden run!!

Two & a bit years later & we're nowhere near 2014!

 

[Exsilium]

Sam,GI,George & the players won the comp for Sths--the coach was only a part of it!!

I doubt much of a part really--he instilled some structure & discipline,granted.

But,as someone said on here recently;Sths probably over-achieved in 2014;had a golden run!!

Two & a bit years later & we're nowhere near 2014!

That someone was me!!!!!!! Yay recognition.

I do feel you over achieved but we've discussed this in other threads. I'm happy you won regardless.

I also feel you guys were really torn apart post 2015. I still think your recruitment is a little opportunistic and lacks thought.

Grevs is leaving to a club that doesn't need him, Keary just needs to have confidence instilled in him by the playing group and support staff but is able to walk straight into another club and with the injuries you've had you don't really have any quality depth.

You can't just bring in juniors and rely on talent. Take it from me, Penrith have talent out the wazoo!!!

I think if Keary goes you need an experienced half and some quality second back rowers who offer more than madges bash and barge.

Brown and carter are decent. Musgrove needs time.

Not concerned about the backline.

 

[souths_pride]

Sam,GI,George & the players won the comp for Sths--the coach was only a part of it!!

I doubt much of a part really--he instilled some structure & discipline,granted.

But,as someone said on here recently;Sths probably over-achieved in 2014;had a golden run!!

Two & a bit years later & we're nowhere near 2014!

Your argument doesn't really hold us because under John Lang we continually finished just outside the top 8. Maguire comes in and in his first year he gets us to within game of the grand final, so he must have done something right.

 

[Rabbits20]

Imagine if you will you are Richo. You get the call from Rusty. From a small pool of experienced coaches, and in the new age of ever changing rules, who would be the best person for the job? Who's available? Do you hunt the ESL again? Is Ivan Cleary all we can hope for?

I keep Madge.

He has had 4 very good seasons with us and won us the premiership.

It disgusts me that now we are struggling and people want Madge sacked.

A new coach won't fix it. The problem is the players attitudes and putting in the hard work.

Not many would want to coach Souths for obvious reasons and the expectation these days.



Player power is at ridiculous levels today. When will the players contracts be torn up for playing badly????


The players in our team need to grow up and cut their stupid ego attitude problems and get on with it. They get paid very well. Give me a job where I can do as I please and not give a shit and rake the money in!!!!!!!!