WWE SuperThread *Spoilers*

[Moffo]

/thread

Big Pete your claims make no sense. Come clean and admit the truth, you haven't watched ten seconds of ecw in the mid 90s

 

[Big Pete]

It obviously wasn't as polished but that didn't detract from it. Punk has way more experience so that is to be expected. But with this polished feel you get less organic promo which feels scripted. You've gotta take the good with the bad.

Maybe not for you but for me the promo lacked the fire Punk's had. It lacked the purpose too, Bryan was just plain ol' shooting. Punk's got people buying a PPV they otherwise wouldn't give a rats about.

You couldn't even find links a year ago

What are you referring to?

I'm a wrestling fan and have no qualms with watching any promotion as I enjoy gaining a new perspective and forming my own opinions. Does that mean I watch every show? No of course not, which is why I always invite members to post or name moments to back up their claim.

I don't watch as much WWE or even TNA as you would believe and no, while I enjoyed what I saw of NJPW, especially their tournaments and misc. matches (one of which I named in the MotY thread) I don't have enough time and more focussed on expanding my knowledge on the American wrestling companies.

 

[Whos Ya Daddy]

Maybe not for you but for me the promo lacked the fire Punk's had. It lacked the purpose too, Bryan was just plain ol' shooting. Punk's got people buying a PPV they otherwise wouldn't give a rats about.

Are you sure this heat is all Punk and not dissatisfaction with the WWE? I would bet on the later. If Punk had a piece of paper in front of him whilst he was delivering that it still would have fired people up.

I don't know how you can say Danielson lacked purpose. He was trying to get over and he succeeded. You say his promo lacked fire but it came across as a shoot and got over whilst drawing massive heat on Cole and Miz. Punk didn't deliver a shoot feel he cut the same promo he cuts every week. This week just happen to include some home truths.

I still maintain you bring Danielson back from being fired with an anti WWE program and he is in the main event with Cena and people care a hell of a lot more about the match than the upcoming PPV. It could have been a paradigm shift but the WWE f**ked it up as usual and we will never know. They booked so many worthless champs but there weren't willing to have a go when it mattered.

I have zero interest in this Punk/Cena feud. I watched the promo. It was OK but I'm not sold. I don't need to see John "fighting champion" Cena because I knew how it was going to play out after Punk cut that promo.

What are you referring to?

You complaining about not being able to watch shows.

I'm a wrestling fan and have no qualms with watching any promotion as I enjoy gaining a new perspective and forming my own opinions. Does that mean I watch every show? No of course not, which is why I always invite members to post or name moments to back up their claim.

I don't watch as much WWE or even TNA as you would believe and no, while I enjoyed what I saw of NJPW, especially their tournaments and misc. matches (one of which I named in the MotY thread) I don't have enough time and more focussed on expanding my knowledge on the American wrestling companies.

You haven't gained a new perspective on anything. You are still the same WWE fanboy that is all about the numbers. I'm yet to met any fan with that attitude who appreciates wrestling from niche promotions. One day you will realize that numbers don't mean shit. Go look at the music industry if you still have any doubt in your mind. Joss Whedon once said "I'd rather make a show 100 people need to see, than a show that 1000 people want to see." I think there is a lot of truth in that.

 

[Big Pete]

Miz nor Cole needed the Bryan promo to achieve heat and it didn't lead to anything. You might not purchase the PPV BUT others will and that's important.

You complaining about not being able to watch shows.

And times change.

You haven't gained a new perspective on anything. You are still the same WWE fanboy that is all about the numbers. I'm yet to met any fan with that attitude who appreciates wrestling from niche promotions. One day you will realize that numbers don't mean shit. Go look at the music industry if you still have any doubt in your mind. Joss Whedon once said "I'd rather make a show 100 people need to see, than a show that 1000 people want to see." I think there is a lot of truth in that.

Good to see you're a fan of Joss.

Numbers are the only objective case you can make in wrestling and generally I bring them up when the state of the WWE is questioned.

Take 1999 for instance. I thought all-round the wrestling was terrible that year and the storylines were absurd. But I wouldn't question the success of the company.

And by perspective, I can actually tell which years were good and bad. Trust me, there are a lot of years I dislike of the WWE and really the entire promotion is saved because they simply outperform their competition in other areas.

 

[Whos Ya Daddy]

Miz nor Cole needed the Bryan promo to achieve heat and it didn't lead to anything. You might not purchase the PPV BUT others will and that's important.

Actually they did and the only reason it didn't culminate to anything is the WWE fired Danielson.

WWE fans are masochists and most know the product is terrible. That's why they love these shoot angles.

And times change.

But the original point remains valid.

Good to see you're a fan of Joss.

Is it?

Numbers are the only objective case you can make in wrestling and generally I bring them up when the state of the WWE is questioned.

You use them as a tool to shit on non WWE product. No one gives a f**k how many T-shirts Cena has sold. We are supposed to be fans not producers. Stop being so f**king objective and have an opinion then. All I see is a WWE fanboy who defends the product on commercial grounds when logic fails him.

Take 1999 for instance. I thought all-round the wrestling was terrible that year and the storylines were absurd. But I wouldn't question the success of the company.

No one is questioning commercial success. We're questioning the quality of the product. I'm glad to know that you think Justin Biber is the most talented musician in the industry because he sells the most records. But that is a cop out and I don't accept it. I have a brain and can think for myself.

And by perspective, I can actually tell which years were good and bad. Trust me, there are a lot of years I dislike of the WWE and really the entire promotion is saved because they simply outperform their competition in other areas.

Well give more of your perspective and less of a perspective that sounds like you're on the board of directors.

Marketing and production value. Doesn't help the quality of the show in my opinion.

 

[Big Pete]

Actually they did and the only reason it didn't culminate to anything is the WWE fired Danielson.

Judging by the way Nexus went, Bryan was just going to be another body in the Barrett stable. If anything, he was better off getting fired and getting the rub at SummerSlam.

WWE fans are masochists and most know the product is terrible. That's why they love these shoot angles.

Why limit it to WWE fans? Shoot angles are exciting because they present a real element in a staged show.

Is it?

I'm not a diehard fan of his or anything but he had a way of creating exciting television that challenged traditions and conventions.

We're in agreement with the rest.

 

[Marshall_magic]

Judging by the way Nexus went, Bryan was just going to be another body in the Barrett stable. If anything, he was better off getting fired and getting the rub at SummerSlam.

I know it's all kind of irrelevent now, but was Bryan's firing legit or was it a work and they always intended on bringing him back at Summerslam (or some other PPV when the Nexus would tag against a Cena lead team?) They got insane heat for the firing as it seemed very weak and over the top and the entire main event roster (Cena, Edge, Orton, HHH) all basically said he'd be back. Something I always wondered.

 

[Big Pete]

He was legitimately fired.

But it was of the understanding he'd be back when the heat died down.

The way it all worked out, it makes you wonder.

 

[Manurewa_Marlins]

No, I think the WWE just had Rob pegged as a stoner, which unfortunately for RVD isn't even his worse stint as a mic. worker. I've seen RVD's work outside of the WWE and TNA, I was once a fan but the guy wasn't anything special on the mic. and certainly isn't at Punk's level.

Now if we're talking charisma, it's a different kettle of fish. RVD just had to point at himself to get a reaction.

Flyin Brian was great. Another potential Pre-Hogan WCW star who had his career taken from him.

Always open to see the promos you rate.

Just because he isn't at Punk's level doesn't mean he isn't much on the mic. Punk is easily in the top 5 promo cutters of all time, so naturally not many are going to be able to hang with him as far as mic work goes.

http://youtu.be/Exm7a9jTQyE

RVD as Mr. Monday Night. Probably one of my favourite characters in ECW.

 

[Big Pete]

Basically another 'by the numbers' Raw eddition saved by another glorious Punk promo that was hurt by a poor inappropriate interuption by Cena that started off decently by putting the heat back on Punk but ended with his often chastised PG shtick.

Punk was once again great and this whole storyline just reminds people this is the guy that was buried by The Undertaker and The Big Show and mid-carded Wrestlemania behind two rookies who still have some ways to go.

The fact we didn't get the promised Bryan/Punk who's the better 'wrestler' feud is one of the biggest missed opportunities since the release of Kaval.

 

[Marshall_magic]

Basically another by the numbers Raw addition saved by another glorious Punk promo that was hurt by a poor inappropriate interuption by Cena that started off decently by putting the heat back on Punk but ended with his chastised PG shtick.

Punk was once again great and this whole storyline just reminds people this is the guy that was buried by The Undertaker and The Big Show and mid-carded Wrestlemania behind two rookies who still have some ways to go.

The fact we didn't get the promised Bryan/Punk who's the better 'wrestler' feud is one of the biggest missed opportunities since the release of Kaval.

The more this unfolds, the more I think it will be Punk winning. Rumor has it Cena has some niggling injuries, and considering he's in one of the biggest matches ever next April the last thing they want to do is risk him. "Firing" him gives him a break, plus he has a way back in. The way I see it panning out is have Punk win the belt at MITB, then on the next episode of Raw have Vince come out to open the show to negotiate with Punk again. Punk says he's the top guy in the company and deserves to be paid accordingly, Vince agrees with him, and because Cena is now fired, Punk will get paid what Cena was getting, all his benefits and endorsements, etc. Punk agrees to stay. This leads to either Punk vs HHH (with HHH pissed off over Punk's rant) at Summerslam.

I just don't think Vince and co would be pushing Punk to the moon like they are now if he's going to leave in a week.

 

[Big Pete]

I'd agree Marshall but they did the exact same thing with Jeff Hardy 2 years ago. Pushed him to the moon, had them main event the 2nd biggest PPV only to see him walk out the door and basically right into police custody.

 

[Marshall_magic]

I'd agree Marshall but they did the exact same thing with Jeff Hardy 2 years ago. Pushed him to the moon, had them main event the 2nd biggest PPV only to see him walk out the door and basically right into police custody.

Fair point, although that whole fued was a match made in heaven, the junkie and the wowser, it would've been a bit pointless to miss the opportunity, and it culminated in a main event TLC match at Summerslam (and a killer match at that), when Hardy did leave, Taker returned and was the #1 face on SD. With Punk it seems that when he leaves there is no obvious replacement as #1 heel on Raw, they're putting probably 30-40% of Raw into hyping up Punk, yet if he is in fact going there is no obvious replacement for him, especially for a PPV that would sell itself based on the gimmick.

 

[Big Pete]

Believe it or not but I believe the WWE will consider Alberto Del Rio a worthy replacement for Punk.

I'd love to see the Punker win it Money in the Bank by the chances seem slim given some of the House Show promos and WWE's response to GLAAD.

 

[Manurewa_Marlins]

Wow, incredible promo work from Punk this past week on Raw...wow

 

[DB]

You know what, flame all you like but incredible from both parties. I think I am digging Cena almost as much as I am digging Punk in this story line.

 

[Big Pete]

Cena's first promo was really good and that's the Cena I enjoy.

His second promo where he insulted McMahon...not so much. Should have just kept exposing Punk.

 

[Scott Gourley's Lovechild]

Anyone else feel like ice cream?

 

[Whos Ya Daddy]

Judging by the way Nexus went, Bryan was just going to be another body in the Barrett stable. If anything, he was better off getting fired and getting the rub at SummerSlam.

I disagree with that premise. Danielson would have been well served to lose the nerd gimmick and the baggage that comes along with it. The only time he was given free reign to go out there and lose the shtick was the NXT invasion. He looked pretty damn good that night. He was the logical choice to eventually lead an uprising against Barrett so a few months of focusing on in ring wrestling would have been fine.

Danielson has been buried by the WWE, there is no question about it. He lost 7 matches on NXT against unimpressive rookies. (Barrett is solid in the ring and solid on the mic. Gabrielle will make a nice spot monkey mid carder. The rest are hopeless.) It was not just the losing it was the destruction of his credibility and having him passed off as a nerd. How is he supposed to kick heads in and be the best wrestler in the world after that ass raping? The only thing that saved him from obliteration was his mic work.

Going over against the Miz was the only thing done right. But where was the program with William Regal? Where was the program with CM Punk? Where was the program against Christian? He couldn't have been booked worse.

Why limit it to WWE fans? Shoot angles are exciting because they present a real element in a staged show.

Because WWE fans cream themselves as soon as you shoot on the company. The amount of people who didn't know the Punk promo was a work was ridiculous.

Other companies are less scripted and not bound by the PG programing so the promos have a more organic feel and are much closer to a real shoot.

I'm not a diehard fan of his or anything but he had a way of creating exciting television that challenged traditions and conventions.

I'm obviously a fan. That question didn't really fit in with the general tone of the previous post.

We're in agreement with the rest.

Good.

 

[Whos Ya Daddy]

I just don't think Vince and co would be pushing Punk to the moon like they are now if he's going to leave in a week.

Punk's going nowhere. No one else can offer a competitive counter to the WWE. He always wanted to be a WWE wrestler and back in the day copped some flack for his "WWE in ring style". He's probably taking a break but he will be back.