Rumoured/Confirmed Signings and More Crap XVII

[Poupou Escobar]

Well I think you're right and I'm sure omc would think so too. One of you probably misread the other.

 

[I bleed blue & gold]

Massive bloke but apparently just re-signed with the Cows a few weeks ago.

Anyway, if you're still talking to him tell him I said hi.

Yup.

http://www.cowboys.com.au/news/2014/07/24/hoare_extends_cowboys_contract.html

 

[Jodeci]

I think by mid 2015 you may like to reconsider this quote,or perhaps you may give it to me but i feel all 3 are better options than Hall and what more probably 3 for the price of 1.

Everyone has their own thoughts mate so there is no point of I suppose bragging rights that you were right or wrong.

I just feel these players we have signed will not add any value and spend most of their time in NSW Cup and we could of put that money towards 1 player who plays NRL week in and week out.

The alarming stat for me is that Willie Tonga who we all have given too over the years, in the past 4 years, he has played more games than Champion.


Champion has been sacked from both the Storm and Titans. That money could of gone to Sio or another quality centre.

McPherson if we have signed him has played only 23 games in Super League over the last 3 years!!!!

Wicks will need clearances when we play NZ.

Nelson, only made his debut at the age of 25.

I'm absolutely gutted that Kelepie wont be with us next year. It's not his attitude, it's not because we have too many backrowers (we just signed 3 others) and it cant be salary cap (cause we have bought players). He was under contract for 2015 so his money was already allocated to him.

The idea is to keep these kids, we invest heavily both from a financial aspect as well as time management, hours and hours of video sessions, techniques, one on one training, extras, etc.

Yes I know we cant keep them all, but the one's who make grade and play first grade whilst at our club, should be retained.

I dont care if these blokes are all on $80k each (I know they are not) but we cant keep saying "Oh we picked him up cheap". All it does is kids we have ready now have to wait as these blokes who have some kind of first grade experience under their belt, will get in first for an opportunity.

Ryan Matterson should be our 13 next year at some stage, if Ken Edwards or Gower say play 13 and both get injured, blokes like McPherson and Nelson will get a crack before Matterson cause of their status.

After clearing the decks, we have a real opportunity here to nail some good signings to add to these kids we have and I just feel we are not doing that at the present moment.

 

[hindy111]

Well said Jodeci.Not only are these guys old but also injury prone

 

[hindy111]

I don't mind signings of guys around 22/23 who are not yet first grade regulars but highly rated.Wade Graham and Austin I mentioned at the time they where being released.
I guess Mau and Edwards where these types of signings too. I also find it odd why we are signing a few old plodders who even if do make side wont add anything more than Mitch Allgood.

 

[Jodeci]

I don't mind signings of guys around 22/23 who are not yet first grade regulars but highly rated.Wade Graham and Austin I mentioned at the time they where being released.
I guess Mau and Edwards where these types of signings too. I also find it odd why we are signing a few old plodders who even if do make side wont add anything more than Mitch Allgood.

Mau is a bit different, never played first grade so he was still very raw and his commitment and passion was the reason why Pete Nolan worked on that deal for 18 months to get him and his family over here. He wasn't washed up and had spent years at 2 or 3 other NRL Clubs.

Edwards much the same, never played NRL at another other club so our expectations were we can get something out of this kid for sure. Spent only a 1 yr at both the Sea Eagles and Dragons but never played grade for them.

The blokes we have signed have NRL careers under them, they have all had their taste of the lime light and for them it's just another club. Edwards and Mau, it wasn't just another club, they wanted it bad and wanted to play 1st grade cause they have never experienced that.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I think you're missing the point, Jodeci.

Like all NRL clubs, we currently have a fulltime squad of over 35 players. This includes the 30 listed on the official site, including two (Ma'afu and Pewhairangi) that have not made a single appearance this year. There is also a bunch more on fulltime contracts but who aren't listed (e.g. Jones, Foran), including two who have played first grade in 2014 (Lasalo and Moeroa, who is still listed as part of the NYC squad). The point is we have used 30 players in first grade this year, as well as carrying full time development players too old for NYC (Alvaro, Ualesi).

Given the need for 30+ players but only 25 slots in the top 25 there needs to be at least five more players on fulltime salaries, but who earn less than the 25th highest paid player in the club (who should be on the NRL's minimum salary of $77500). These five (or more) players will be on about $75k (or even $77499.99, the cheeky buggers). Anyway, the money paid to these players, regardless of how many of them there are, doesn't count against the main NRL salary cap (it counts against the second tier cap, but only if they play first grade).

What this means is that signing cheap (if you consider almost $80k to play games for a job) players for depth has nothing to do with whether or not we can or do sign high quality, expensive players into the top 25. But what the signing of players like Nelson and McPherson does is allow us to get rid of backup players like Kelepi Tanginoa, who are earning more than minimum salary. That is what frees up space to sign (or retain) the big names.

Kelepi Tanginoa wasn't pushed out of the club by Cody Nelson; he was pushed out by the emergence of Edwards, Ma'u and Moeroa, who all need (and deserve) upgrades. Guys like Nelson and McPherson just provide the backup that every club needs, and they do it cheaper than Tanginoa, who also would have been providing backup next year. Now I understand Kelepi Tanginoa is probably a better player than the new guys, but he is also more expensive (top 25 highest paid in the club), and you can only carry so many expensive backups in your top 25. In next year's top 25 we are served in the positions Kelepi Tanginoa plays by backups like Peni Terepo, Mitch Allgood and Pauli Pauli - all players who were preferred over Tanginoa in first grade since round three.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I don't mind signings of guys around 22/23 who are not yet first grade regulars but highly rated.Wade Graham and Austin I mentioned at the time they where being released.

These guys cost more than seasoned veterans.

I guess Mau and Edwards where these types of signings too. I also find it odd why we are signing a few old plodders who even if do make side wont add anything more than Mitch Allgood.

The thing is they almost certainly won't make the side, which is why they'd be so cheap.

As for Ma'u and Edwards, they are both in their mid 20s this year, meaning the game had almost passed them by. Their careers stalled (before we gave them a shot, on very little money) because of their discipline and criminal histories. Every other NRL club would have known who they were (clubs would keep databases stretching back a decade or more) but none were too interested in signing them, even on second tier contracts (by which I mean an NRL contract for an amount less than the top 25).

It shows though, that signing 'washed up' guys in their mid 20s can be more fruitful than highly rated kids freshly graduated from the NYC (e.g. Santi and Ualesi). Some guys just need more time to develop - even Api Pewhairangi could become a first grader if he sticks at it for a couple more years, but he currently lacks the physical ability to overcome his inexperience and be effective at NRL level. He might get stronger in the future but he will definitely improve his mental and technical skills if he sticks to full time training and playing. James Maloney made his NRL debut in the year he turned 23, and 20 year old Luke Kelly made his debut in the same year for the same club. So a younger debut doesn't mean a player will be or even is a better player.

Then there's guys like Lorenzo Ma'afu who made his NRL debut six years ago (the year he turned 21) and hasn't played since. It's a bit of a lottery.

 

[oldmancraigy]

Exactly, and this is why I was saying that Jodeci is potentially correct in saying that some players outside the Top 25 got paid more than some blokes in the Top 25, coz the Top 25 is presumably based on the Salary Cap value of the player, not their realized cash salary. But OMC is telling me I'm wrong.

Yeah, I was just referring to cap value! I didnt read what you wrote carefully enough

 

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

Yeah, I was just referring to cap value! I didnt read what you wrote carefully enough

No worries mate.

 

[Utey]

Pou, you understand the shit out of the cap.

 

[strider]

he understands the shit out of everything

#justaskhim

 

[Poupou Escobar]

There's areas of the cap I'm not full bottle on (my known unknowns), plus areas I thought I understood but turn out to be wrong (previously unknown unknowns). Obviously former coaches like Gould and Smith are a font of wisdom.

Due to clubs wanting to maintain player privacy (and hide their little rorts) there isn't a lot of detail out there on the salary cap situations of each club, so as fans the best we can do is speculate.

 

[Avenger]

Why Pou and where do you get the energy ?

 

[Hollywood Jesus]

What's wrong with tackles made / tackles missed / tackles inneffective (no, not in one ratio)?

Minutes just adds noise to the process.

Because guys who don't play large minutes won't experience the same deterioration in performance across a game as those who do play large minutes.

Now, it's true that we have interchange to deal with this, but it still stands to reason that those guys who play shorter stints in the game should be fresher and therefore able to maintain their effectiveness.

It's not always about making it as simple as possible. It's about making it accurate. You say it adds noise, I say it adds that one element that makes it a more effective representation of the truth.

 

[eel speel]

I think you're missing the point, Jodeci.

Like all NRL clubs, we currently have a fulltime squad of over 35 players. This includes the 30 listed on the official site, including two (Ma'afu and Pewhairangi) that have not made a single appearance this year. There is also a bunch more on fulltime contracts but who aren't listed (e.g. Jones, Foran), including two who have played first grade in 2014 (Lasalo and Moeroa, who is still listed as part of the NYC squad). The point is we have used 30 players in first grade this year, as well as carrying full time development players too old for NYC (Alvaro, Ualesi).

Given the need for 30+ players but only 25 slots in the top 25 there needs to be at least five more players on fulltime salaries, but who earn less than the 25th highest paid player in the club (who should be on the NRL's minimum salary of $77500). These five (or more) players will be on about $75k (or even $77499.99, the cheeky buggers). Anyway, the money paid to these players, regardless of how many of them there are, doesn't count against the main NRL salary cap (it counts against the second tier cap, but only if they play first grade).

What this means is that signing cheap (if you consider almost $80k to play games for a job) players for depth has nothing to do with whether or not we can or do sign high quality, expensive players into the top 25. But what the signing of players like Nelson and McPherson does is allow us to get rid of backup players like Kelepi Tanginoa, who are earning more than minimum salary. That is what frees up space to sign (or retain) the big names.

Kelepi Tanginoa wasn't pushed out of the club by Cody Nelson; he was pushed out by the emergence of Edwards, Ma'u and Moeroa, who all need (and deserve) upgrades. Guys like Nelson and McPherson just provide the backup that every club needs, and they do it cheaper than Tanginoa, who also would have been providing backup next year. Now I understand Kelepi Tanginoa is probably a better player than the new guys, but he is also more expensive (top 25 highest paid in the club), and you can only carry so many expensive backups in your top 25. In next year's top 25 we are served in the positions Kelepi Tanginoa plays by backups like Peni Terepo, Mitch Allgood and Pauli Pauli - all players who were preferred over Tanginoa in first grade since round three.

Well said....good explanation

 

[oldmancraigy]

Why Pou and where do you get the energy ?

Well, when you eat, eventually you just have to. And I suppose the food intake provides the energy? I'm sure most of us never found it exhausting??


Or did I misread again?

 

[oldmancraigy]

I think you're missing the point, Jodeci.

Like all NRL clubs, we currently have a fulltime squad of over 35 players. This includes the 30 listed on the official site, including two (Ma'afu and Pewhairangi) that have not made a single appearance this year. There is also a bunch more on fulltime contracts but who aren't listed (e.g. Jones, Foran), including two who have played first grade in 2014 (Lasalo and Moeroa, who is still listed as part of the NYC squad). The point is we have used 30 players in first grade this year, as well as carrying full time development players too old for NYC (Alvaro, Ualesi).

Given the need for 30+ players but only 25 slots in the top 25 there needs to be at least five more players on fulltime salaries, but who earn less than the 25th highest paid player in the club (who should be on the NRL's minimum salary of $77500). These five (or more) players will be on about $75k (or even $77499.99, the cheeky buggers). Anyway, the money paid to these players, regardless of how many of them there are, doesn't count against the main NRL salary cap (it counts against the second tier cap, but only if they play first grade).

What this means is that signing cheap (if you consider almost $80k to play games for a job) players for depth has nothing to do with whether or not we can or do sign high quality, expensive players into the top 25. But what the signing of players like Nelson and McPherson does is allow us to get rid of backup players like Kelepi Tanginoa, who are earning more than minimum salary. That is what frees up space to sign (or retain) the big names.

Kelepi Tanginoa wasn't pushed out of the club by Cody Nelson; he was pushed out by the emergence of Edwards, Ma'u and Moeroa, who all need (and deserve) upgrades. Guys like Nelson and McPherson just provide the backup that every club needs, and they do it cheaper than Tanginoa, who also would have been providing backup next year. Now I understand Kelepi Tanginoa is probably a better player than the new guys, but he is also more expensive (top 25 highest paid in the club), and you can only carry so many expensive backups in your top 25. In next year's top 25 we are served in the positions Kelepi Tanginoa plays by backups like Peni Terepo, Mitch Allgood and Pauli Pauli - all players who were preferred over Tanginoa in first grade since round three.

ALSO (in my opinion) a club is better off 'missing out' on a big name signing (but retaining the flexibility to pursue another one the following season) than signing low to middling guys on multi-year, non-minimum salary deals. If you want to retain $6-900k to chase an Origin player, you don't miss out, then sign 3 blokes at 2-300k each for 2-3 years (which is what they want). Instead, you invest in actual talent (perhaps it is taking a 1 year flyer on someone else's junior at $4-500k, with a team option for 2 more seasons if they pan out; perhaps it is 2 middling players at 400k, with a minimum contract to pad out the squad).

It's a game within a game. Every professional sport in the world (which has a salary cap) plays it.

 

[forward pass]

Pou, you understand the shit out of the cap.

Pou wrote the Salary cap.

 

[yy_cheng]

Pou is Ian