Who should be the 9th Immortal?

[The Enforcer]

Eion Crossan.

 

[ram raid]

I think that's right, we should only judge the players we've seen and who we can actually appreciate just how good they are. How many of us have actually seen Provan play? Yea he has a great record, but The blokes who did see him play voted in Raper . Churchill, gasnier, langlands and Fulton ahead of him.

I'm with you. And how much can you tell from old footage anyway? It's like those tennis arguments people have. Some people say that Rod Laver was better than Roger Federer. They might be right, but really, how the f**k would we know? With the gap in time, evolution of sport etc, it makes it impossible to think about intelligibly.

 

[DiegoNT]

I'm with you. And how much can you tell from old footage anyway? It's like those tennis arguments people have. Some people say that Rod Laver was better than Roger Federer. They might be right, but really, how the f**k would we know? With the gap in time, evolution of sport etc, it makes it impossible to think about intelligibly.

I couldn't tell you who was better, provan or Raper. But every rugby league history book, every interview from old fellas, the original immortal judges etc.. all say Raper was better. Immortals seem to be once in a generation players who changed the way tge game was played. Picking Provan would mean picking the 4th best player from st Georges golden era ( or maybe even 5th best, billy smith gets pretty big wraps as well ).

 

[ram raid]

I couldn't tell you who was better, provan or Raper. But every rugby league history book, every interview from old fellas, the original immortal judges etc.. all say Raper was better. Immortals seem to be once in a generation players who changed the way tge game was played. Picking Provan would mean picking the 4th best player from st Georges golden era ( or maybe even 5th best, billy smith gets pretty big wraps as well ).

Fair enough. I'll take that on board. I don't really feel knowledgeable enough to comment.

 

[WaznTheGreat]

Jarryd Hayne

+1

 

[Pennies]

I couldn't tell you who was better, provan or Raper. But every rugby league history book, every interview from old fellas, the original immortal judges etc.. all say Raper was better. Immortals seem to be once in a generation players who changed the way tge game was played. Picking Provan would mean picking the 4th best player from st Georges golden era ( or maybe even 5th best, billy smith gets pretty big wraps as well ).

Wrong even Johnny Raper who (PLAYED WITH HIM) and carries the title is embarrassed that Norm Provan is not an Immortal.

It's time for Provan to be immortalised

For some reason Provan was not named an Immortal when the concept was started in the 1980s. Maybe it was politics or ignorance or a reluctance to honour too many St George players. Originally a promotion for Rugby League Week, the latest inductee was chosen last year by a panel of journalists, officials, coaches and past players including those already dubbed Immortals. One of the originals, John Raper, is embarrassed that he carries the title and Provan doesn't. He argued for Provan but the majority wanted someone younger, arguing it would be odd to reach back to the 1960s.
Last week one of the panellists that overlooked him last year repeated his claim that Provan was the fourth- or fifth-best player in a superstar team and that his record of 10 successive premierships doesn't warrant the status of immortal. This was after Summons stated the obvious; that the continuing omission of Provan is a disgrace. Summons played against Norm Provan season after season. Most of the panellists just read about him
.
In 2008, the NRL righted a wrong. The Clive Churchill Medal for best player in the grand final had only been awarded since 1986. A panel was assembled. Records were scoured and player-of-the-match award winners obtained retrospectively the Churchill medal in each grand final from 1954 when they became mandatory. Of the 10 grand finals won by Norm Provan, he was adjudged best on ground in three of them. The only triple winner of the Churchill medal. Not bad for a mid-ranked player in a team of superstars.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...provan-to-be-immortalised-20131005-2v0xx.html

 

[cleary89]

I'm with you. And how much can you tell from old footage anyway? It's like those tennis arguments people have. Some people say that Rod Laver was better than Roger Federer. They might be right, but really, how the f**k would we know? With the gap in time, evolution of sport etc, it makes it impossible to think about intelligibly.

Exactly, which is why his 10 premierships, 4 as captain/coach mean so much.

 

[DiegoNT]

Of course Raper would say Provan is better then him, it's a mixture of old fashioned humility and respect for your coach and Captain. But again if you listen to the majority of old timers, listen or read from the commentators of the time or people that grew up in that era, its always Raper and Gasnier they rave about. Its like Steve edge was the captain of parramatta 3peat from 81-83 but the stars were sterlo kenny and price. Its simple, would they replace Raper or Gasnier as immortals with Provan? Not many old timers would agree to that

 

[Hutty1986]

I don't think it's fair that these modern day players seem to get in before legends like Provan are admitted into the ranks. Joey is the best player of all time and was always a certainty to become an Immortal, but I think they're getting the order of admission wrong.

 

[Captain Apollo]

Of course Raper would say Provan is better then him, it's a mixture of old fashioned humility and respect for your coach and Captain. But again if you listen to the majority of old timers, listen or read from the commentators of the time or people that grew up in that era, its always Raper and Gasnier they rave about. Its like Steve edge was the captain of parramatta 3peat from 81-83 but the stars were sterlo kenny and price. Its simple, would they replace Raper or Gasnier as immortals with Provan? Not many old timers would agree to that

Yes, but Gasnier and Raper played a lot more "flashy" than Provan did. Provan was a second rower who had to do the hard yards in every game. Provan was not the "plodder" you make him out to be at all. I'm no Dragons fan but I recognise he was the premier second row forward of his time. You don't get to be in 10 consecutive winning grand finals, which neither Raper nor Gasnier did.

 

[DiegoNT]

I don't think it's fair that these modern day players seem to get in before legends like Provan are admitted into the ranks. Joey is the best player of all time and was always a certainty to become an Immortal, but I think they're getting the order of admission wrong.

The period that immortals are chosen from ( post war) is now 70 years old. Of the 8 current immortals 7 made their debuts in the first 35 years of the award, only 1 made their debut in the second 35 years. You have 7 immortals who played their whole careers in the first 45 years of the post war era, that's 1 immortal for every 6.5 seasons. In the remaining 25 years we've only had 1 immortal. The post war eras now 70 yeara old, we have 7 immortals from the first half of that era now it's time for some ince in a generation players from the second half of that era

 

[DiegoNT]

Yes, but Gasnier and Raper played a lot more "flashy" than Provan did. Provan was a second rower who had to do the hard yards in every game. Provan was not the "plodder" you make him out to be at all. I'm no Dragons fan but I recognise he was the premier second row forward of his time. You don't get to be in 10 consecutive winning grand finals, which neither Raper nor Gasnier did.

Nathan Hindmarsh was probably the workhorse back rower of the 00s, done a lot of grunt work, was the back bone of many successful origin and test teams, but no one would rank him ahead of lockyer and Johns.
Provan is a great of the game no doubt, but you ask any old timers about football in the 60s and they cream their pants talking about gasnier and Raper. That's what makes them immortal

 

[wittyfan]

Casty for sure!!! No one has done more for French rugby league.

 

[DiegoNT]

Paul Vaultin was Queenslands vice captain in the 80s. A workhorse, always picked, universally loved and respected by his teammates, an amazing record, considered a leader of the team, but it was wally who became an immortal because whenever you mention 80s football (especially origin) Wally is the person who instantly Springs to mind in a same way Raper and Gasnier immediately spring time mind when mentioning the great st george teams, even if they didn't take part in all the premierships.

 

[Lockyer4President!]

Its not a good sign when you can only find the ARL Hall of Fame on Wikipedia.
I'm sure it is on another site but i couldn't find it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Rugby_League_Hall_of_Fame

Yeah it's actually pretty poor that there's nothing on the NRL site.

I remember how great the centenary of rugby league website was, and that was for just one season. I don't understand why the NRL, now with so much more money, couldn't create a permanent website for the game's history and our Hall of Fame.

 

[cleary89]

Nathan Hindmarsh was probably the workhorse back rower of the 00s, done a lot of grunt work, was the back bone of many successful origin and test teams, but no one would rank him ahead of lockyer and Johns.
Provan is a great of the game no doubt, but you ask any old timers about football in the 60s and they cream their pants talking about gasnier and Raper. That's what makes them immortal

Hindy didn't win 10 premierships in a row though.

 

[Johnnie Red]

Yeah it's actually pretty poor that there's nothing on the NRL site.

I remember how great the centenary of rugby league website was, and that was for just one season. I don't understand why the NRL, now with so much more money, couldn't create a permanent website for the game's history and our Hall of Fame.

The more I think about it, the more disrespectful I think it is. In a matter of seconds I could find the NBA, NFL and Football HoF. Each site had countless articles, stats, videos and we can't even have a dedicated website or link in the NRL site.

In the words of Derryn Hinch...shame shame shame

 

[papabear]

I don't get the lockyer love, imo if he played for the panthers he wouldn't be in the conversation.

Thurston is a better player with the ball in his hands and organising those around him. He is probably a better defender then lockyer as well.

Sterling was better then lockyer in his time, but tbh if johns is in there and sterling isn't then I don't think sterol will ever get the nod.

Honestly, the only person from the list who I think could get in their is Thurston. Oddly enough, I think his best chance is if the cowboys fall in a shitheap without him ala Newcastle to show how important he is to that side.

 

[Jimmy-o]

So at the moment it's a three-horse race between Provan, Lockyer, and Casty...

 

[ram raid]

I totally get the Lockyer love.