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Expanding the NRL through Promotion and Relegation

Marlins

Juniors
Messages
1,449
Bigger grants but equal salary cap???
Yes has to be the same salary cap. Hypothetically speaking if the 1st and 2nd divisions were in place now Newcastle would be dropped and a better performing and finically better off club would be promoted to the 1st Div. The promoted team should get a grant for being promoted plus the standard grant the 1st division teams would get as well. This would sort out the top clubs and lower clubs.
 

Marlins

Juniors
Messages
1,449
It would give teams like NSB's, Ipshwich jets, RedCliffe Dolphins are chance to be promoted while building a bigger fan base in the 2nd division instead of trying to figure out where to expand this system would sort it out.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
73,556
Not really, relegation leads to massive problems for the relegated club that sometimes they cant come back from. Look at the Bradford Bulls, biggest supporter base in Uk arguably, darlings of the new summer era in the mid 90's, few bad years, got relegated, about to be wound up. Same happened to my club, biggest club in the 80's, got relegated, came within a hairs breath of folding or being merged.

P&R offers no strategic direction for the games expansion, merely chance.
 

alien

Referee
Messages
20,279
Yes has to be the same salary cap. Hypothetically speaking if the 1st and 2nd divisions were in place now Newcastle would be dropped and a better performing and finically better off club would be promoted to the 1st Div. The promoted team should get a grant for being promoted plus the standard grant the 1st division teams would get as well. This would sort out the top clubs and lower clubs.

I understand, but if the lower division clubs are spending that salary cap and they are getting smaller grants, then they might not be able to survive financially. They might already have a smaller amount of memberships, sponsorships, etc, for being in the lower division. The grants should be the same. All the lower division games would be live on tv too. There would be a second channel on Foxtel to show the lower division games live, and those games being shown would mean the NRL would get more money for rights.
 

Marlins

Juniors
Messages
1,449
I understand, but if the lower division clubs are spending that salary cap and they are getting smaller grants, then they might not be able to survive financially. They might already have a smaller amount of memberships, sponsorships, etc, for being in the lower division. The grants should be the same. All the lower division games would be live on tv too. There would be a second channel on Foxtel to show the lower division games live, and those games being shown would mean the NRL would get more money for rights.
It has to be a long term investment for promoting NRL in them regions. Overtime memberships and culture will grow creating more talent and pave way for more players to come through and more people interested in the game. There's no quick fix. Really is a combined Nsw/Qld cup with a couple of NZ teams and PNG side that unrealistic.
 

Marlins

Juniors
Messages
1,449
A 2nd division league televised and promoted would generate a lot more interest, fans, memberships, sponsorships which generate a lot more money tapping into untapped areas. This is a better idea then PR's relocate half the Sydney teams and piss off fans who have been supporting these clubs for generations. A team like Newcastle would benefit from rebuilding there team in a 2nd league then struggling for possibly the next 2-3years in the NRL.
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,972
I don't really take this seriously for 2 reasons.
1) the wage bill - I don't think the NRL will double or triple their funding. Lower tiers need to be funded enough to make promotion a realistic possibility.
2) Australian sporting culture. It's just not done. I don't believe it would catch on.

But IF you had a 3 level system like england:

Premiership, 14 teams, $10 mil cap, $10 mil funded
Start with top 14 NRL Clubs of previous year.

Championship1, 14 teams, $10mil cap, $5mil funded
Reserve grade teams would end.
Start with bottom 2 NRL clubs of previous year, top 6 QLD Cup and top 6 NSW Cup.

Championship 2, unspecified number of teams, $5mil cap, $2.5 mil funded
Start with remaining Cup teams, invite expansion teams.

Any less funding and it would be impossible to get promoted and the whole exercise is pointless. Clubs funded half the above division, so have to show they're capable of moving up by selling tickets and gaining sponsorships.
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,972
Not really, relegation leads to massive problems for the relegated club that sometimes they cant come back from. Look at the Bradford Bulls, biggest supporter base in Uk arguably, darlings of the new summer era in the mid 90's, few bad years, got relegated, about to be wound up. Same happened to my club, biggest club in the 80's, got relegated, came within a hairs breath of folding or being merged.

P&R offers no strategic direction for the games expansion, merely chance.

So survival of the fittest is only valid if it's someone's Sydney club getting the boot to make way for yours?
 

Marlins

Juniors
Messages
1,449
Posted on Facebook by rugby league week

Now you’ve played grassroots sport, right? So you’re accustomed to your team and/or your club shifting divisions (even leagues), depending on performance.

Play crap, finish bottom, go down one rung. Kill it, win your grade/division and you’re up one. It’s simple, everyone understands it and it renews competitions.

But at the elite level? Yeah … nah. Not going to happen. Not in the NRL or the AFL or The Big Bash or Super rugby or even in the bloody A-League.

But given the moon-and-back gap between the best and worst in the NRL this season, we really need to consider whether there’s a better way.

In a salary-capped league that prides itself on cut-throat competition and giving the fans value for their ticket, why should a club running so, SO far off the pace be guaranteed a place next season?

Maybe it’s time we were all a little more open-minded because, you know, it could be a way of re-connecting the game with its suburban roots. Giving it some soul.

Plenty of you like the English Premier League. But would it be the world’s second-biggest sporting competition if the bottom-two knew they’d be there next year, no matter how poorly they performed? The EPL has 20 teams, only four more than our great game.

And all season, there are two key storylines: who’s going to win it … and who’s going to get relegated. Which means the next league down, the Championship, is boosted because the top two go up every year. The EPL, and therefore the clubs, are underwritten by a massive TV deal (sound familiar?), and the clubs supplement this with fat sponsorships and rich merchandise sales.

So making it into the EPL automatically guarantees the promoted clubs a bucket of cash to spend.

Now stay with me on this. Promotion and relegation for the NRL could create a genuine, vibrant second-tier competition.

The Championship in the UK has come on massively in the past 10 years, benefiting from the development of the EPL. Why can’t the NSW and QLD Cup merge and become part of the NRL economy? Then they’ll be much more than a feeder competition, but a league with valuable TV rights and increasing crowds because they’re hard-wired to the NRL.

How about having the Newtown Jets back at the big dance? The North Sydney Bears? Wynnum Manly and Ipswich? And why not the PNG Hunters?

At a time when the game needs to show its fans that it belongs to them and not the corporate suits, this mightn’t be such a dumb idea after all.

Yep, there are plenty of obstacles. Plenty. How do you fund this? What happens to the relegated clubs? But hey – that’s what smart people are paid to sort out.

And they can, if they really want to. I just ask this question: who wants to see the Newtown Jets play the Broncos at Henson Park? House full. Mad atmosphere. NRL talking directly with the fans again … no brainer.
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,972
Yeah Henson Park is really what the top grade of professional sport in Australia needs... fmd
 

BuderusIsaBeast

Juniors
Messages
554
Not really, relegation leads to massive problems for the relegated club that sometimes they cant come back from. Look at the Bradford Bulls, biggest supporter base in Uk arguably, darlings of the new summer era in the mid 90's, few bad years, got relegated, about to be wound up. Same happened to my club, biggest club in the 80's, got relegated, came within a hairs breath of folding or being merged.

P&R offers no strategic direction for the games expansion, merely chance.

Your forgetting Bradford were already in administration whilst in super league. There money issues were not a result of them getting relegated. Also to say they are about to be wound up is a massive stretch. They are having money issues yes but there still competing and doing quite well in the championship (5th atm)

Under the system I put forward the NRL will oversee all 24 of the teams and they wil receive the same funding. If a team is in trouble no doubt the NRL will help out. Also there is only 2 divisions so it is not like English football for example where a Blackpool can drop 3 divisons
 

BuderusIsaBeast

Juniors
Messages
554
I am a big supporter of the 2 divisions and promotion/relegation however I disagree with the article above and believe it fails to understand the biggest problem. For it to work you can't use The NSW Cup and QLD Cup as the second division. The majority of clubs are not NRL standard and are associated with current NRL teams. Having Newtown or Wyomg playing out of a tiny suburban ground is not good for the sport. The second division needs to have independent teams such as West Coast Pirates, Brisbane 2 and Central Coast for example
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,828
Your forgetting Bradford were already in administration whilst in super league. There money issues were not a result of them getting relegated. Also to say they are about to be wound up is a massive stretch. They are having money issues yes but there still competing and doing quite well in the championship (5th atm)

Under the system I put forward the NRL will oversee all 24 of the teams and they wil receive the same funding. If a team is in trouble no doubt the NRL will help out. Also there is only 2 divisions so it is not like English football for example where a Blackpool can drop 3 divisons

Yes Bradford we docked 6 points for poor finacial management
 

Marlins

Juniors
Messages
1,449
I think this should be the setup
NRL Divison 1.
1. NQLD Cowboys
2. Brisbane Broncos
3. Gold Coast Titans
4. Newcastle Knights
5. Manly Sea Eagles
6. Penrith Panthers
7. Parramatta Eels
8. Canterbury Bulldogs
9. South Sydney Rabbitohs
10. Sydney Roosters
11. Cronulla Sharks
12. St.George Illwarra Dragons
13. Canberra Raiders
14. Auckland Warriors
15. Melbourne Storm
16. West Coast Pirates (Brand New)

2nd Divison Platnium Rugby League PRL
1. Northern Pride or other named cairns based
With 2 home games played in Darwin.
2. Central Qld team (Brand New)
3. Sunshine Coast Falcons
4. Redcliffe Dolphins (North Brisbane Dolphins)
5. Ipswich Jets ( or Western Corridor Jets)
6. Central Coast Team (Brand New)
7. North Sydney Bears
8. Balmaine Tigers
9. Western Suburbs Magpies
10. Wellington Orcas
11. Christchurch Bulls
12. South Pacfic Cyclones ( or different name)
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
73,556
RL is a minor sport in England and as such saturation is less of an issue. They can survive on crowds of 7k, in NRL where revenue needs to see crowds of 20k and where the sport wants to lay claim to being the biggest in Australia 12k avg just do t cut Te mustard. Chick in the battle to hit the $6mill corporate income clubs need each and it's not hard to see why st', Newcastle, Tigers, sharks, manly and Penrith have all been in serious financial strife in recent years. Others survive because of Pokies and arent close to sustainable as stand alone sports clubs.
 

flippikat

First Grade
Messages
5,662
I think this should be the setup
NRL Divison 1.
1. NQLD Cowboys
2. Brisbane Broncos
3. Gold Coast Titans
4. Newcastle Knights
5. Manly Sea Eagles
6. Penrith Panthers
7. Parramatta Eels
8. Canterbury Bulldogs
9. South Sydney Rabbitohs
10. Sydney Roosters
11. Cronulla Sharks
12. St.George Illwarra Dragons
13. Canberra Raiders
14. Auckland Warriors
15. Melbourne Storm
16. West Coast Pirates (Brand New)

2nd Divison Platnium Rugby League PRL
1. Northern Pride or other named cairns based
With 2 home games played in Darwin.
2. Central Qld team (Brand New)
3. Sunshine Coast Falcons
4. Redcliffe Dolphins (North Brisbane Dolphins)
5. Ipswich Jets ( or Western Corridor Jets)
6. Central Coast Team (Brand New)
7. North Sydney Bears
8. Balmaine Tigers
9. Western Suburbs Magpies
10. Wellington Orcas
11. Christchurch Bulls
12. South Pacfic Cyclones ( or different name)

That pretty much covers everywhere in rugby league heartland, and non-heartland locations of Perth and Melbourne that have strategic (and financial) value.

Another positive is that the 2nd division has 4 less teams than the first division, so there's scope for 4 more clubs to be added to "balance" the numbers - Melbourne 2, New Zealand 4 & 5 (Waikato/Bay of Plenty & Auckland team), and Perth 2 could feasibly be those additional teams in the long run. Or new locations like Adelaide, a stand-alone Darwin team, or even Tasmania.

The key question is - can a business model be made to successfully run this?
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
17,200
I think this should be the setup
NRL Divison 1.
1. NQLD Cowboys
2. Brisbane Broncos
3. Gold Coast Titans
4. Newcastle Knights
5. Manly Sea Eagles
6. Penrith Panthers
7. Parramatta Eels
8. Canterbury Bulldogs
9. South Sydney Rabbitohs
10. Sydney Roosters
11. Cronulla Sharks
12. St.George Illwarra Dragons
13. Canberra Raiders
14. Auckland Warriors
15. Melbourne Storm
16. West Coast Pirates (Brand New)

2nd Divison Platnium Rugby League PRL
1. Northern Pride or other named cairns based
With 2 home games played in Darwin.
2. Central Qld team (Brand New)
3. Sunshine Coast Falcons
4. Redcliffe Dolphins (North Brisbane Dolphins)
5. Ipswich Jets ( or Western Corridor Jets)
6. Central Coast Team (Brand New)
7. North Sydney Bears
8. Balmaine Tigers
9. Western Suburbs Magpies
10. Wellington Orcas
11. Christchurch Bulls
12. South Pacfic Cyclones ( or different name)

Too many teams.
If there were to be P/R you would at least want to improve the standard of the top division.
10 top division teams and 10 second division.
There are not enough TV time slots for 28 teams. If you had 20 teams there would be enough times slots for all of them to be on free to air or fox.
 
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