Mark Coyne

[possm]

I'd like to see Coyne and his committee given the task of setting up TPA access for the Dragons.

 

[possm]

Do members agree with me and the idea that Coyne be tasked with investigating the possibility of the Dragons gaining access to the TPA scheme.

While this corrupt scheme is being used by some clubs to gain an advantage in the player transfer market, it is important that our club is not disadvantaged by not participating in the scheme.

 

[BennyV]

Do members agree with me and the idea that Coyne be tasked with investigating the possibility of the Dragons gaining access to the TPA scheme.

While this corrupt scheme is being used by some clubs to gain an advantage in the player transfer market, it is important that our club is not disadvantaged by not participating in the scheme.

100% no.

You still dont seem to get it; TPAs are to be kept completely separate from the club. Employing some, particularly someone with ties to the club such that Coyne has, to look for Third Parties to pay players on behalf of the club would be the equivalent of erecting a gigantic neon billboard on the Princes Highway saying 'Illegal Payments Here: NRL Cap Auditors Welcome'.

I dont mind a lot of your posts possm, but for the love of all that is holy can you give up on the TPAs through the club. Considering the rules surrounding them, and whether or not we actually utilise them in our dealings, the less that the fans/media/NRL hear about TPAs for Dragons player, the better.

 

[possm]

100% no.

You still dont seem to get it; TPAs are to be kept completely separate from the club. Employing some, particularly someone with ties to the club such that Coyne has, to look for Third Parties to pay players on behalf of the club would be the equivalent of erecting a gigantic neon billboard on the Princes Highway saying 'Illegal Payments Here: NRL Cap Auditors Welcome'.

I dont mind a lot of your posts possm, but for the love of all that is holy can you give up on the TPAs through the club. Considering the rules surrounding them, and whether or not we actually utilise them in our dealings, the less that the fans/media/NRL hear about TPAs for Dragons player, the better.

So BennyV please give me your take on HOW the Broncos, Storm, Dogs, Bunnies, Eels and maybe the Sharks, Raiders, Sea Eagles ......... have, without any input from their Football Clubs, have managed to regularly have access to TPAs when signing players. I mean how did the Roosts all of a sudden come up with about 500k in TPA for Tedesco coincidently right at the time they were negotiating with Tedesco's manager.

Anyway maybe it is the Leagues Club that needs to arrange something or a major business in the St George District. I feel sure the clubs mentioned above had some input into arranging the infrastructure to facilitate TPA but not directly dealing with each individual TPA.

It is just not good enough to say we can't do it. If other clubs have done it, we most certainly can also do it.

For goodness sakes, 750k is too lower price for Dugan but the Roosters pay 700k of cap for Tedesco.

 

[emu62]

I'd like to see Coyne and his committee given the task of setting up TPA access for the Dragons.

Correct me if I'm wrong possum but i was under the impression that if any club or anyone associated with the club is involved with a TPA then that TPA comes under the salary cap. For a TPA to be exempt from the salary cap they must have no association with the club.IS this correct? Thanks in advance

 

[Old Timer]

Correct me if I'm wrong possum but i was under the impression that if any club or anyone associated with the club is involved with a TPA then that TPA comes under the salary cap. For a TPA to be exempt from the salary cap they must have no association with the club.IS this correct? Thanks in advance

Quire correct Emu that's exactly how the Eels got into so much strife.

 

[emu62]

Quire correct Emu that's exactly how the Eels got into so much strife.

thanks OT

 

[possm]

Correct me if I'm wrong possum but i was under the impression that if any club or anyone associated with the club is involved with a TPA then that TPA comes under the salary cap. For a TPA to be exempt from the salary cap they must have no association with the club.IS this correct? Thanks in advance

Yes that is related to the TPA itself the sponsorship of a particular player. I would say it is all a bit cloudy because every rich club seems to have a TPA associated with each marquee player they sign. The recent example where Tedesco is reported to be offered 1.2m by the Roosts, only for us to find the contract price to be 700k when lodged to be registered with the NRL.

It's all a scam and needs to be investigated but until it is and changes made, the St George Leagues Club or some other entity other than the St George Illawarra Football Club, could very easily hire a consultant to advise on how to do what all the rich clubs are doing.

 

[MilanDragon]

Possm is right in his thoughts of we need TPA's. However I think his understanding or potentially plan of gaining them is a little misguided.

Possm is also not far off the mark if we say had a 'company' set up just to fund TPA's. My question is, if there was such a entity are they allowed to advertise on the Dragons jersey or at the stadium?

i know other clubs have them, no doubt they do it under the table but you still have to be very smart about it and leave no trail if you go the path of using a Mark Coyne. Otherwise you end up in the same spot as Bulldogs, Storm, Eels etc.

The biggest challenge of having a TPA 'company' set up as Possm is suggesting.. what's in it for them? Where is their financial gain and the gain for an investor? Otherwise it's just a very silly business investment for those that 'fund' the company.

 

[Old Timer]

Our issue with TPA's is quite simple.
1. Within our boundaries there is bugger all significant business to lean on.
2. Our brand was allowed to slide so no left fielders saw us as a good investment, nor did we have any elite players on the books for people to be enticed into sponsorship.
2 or 3 really good years could remedy point 2 very quickly and we could have a nice little golden period.
A high profile club with high profile players and lots of happy fans turning up to packed home grounds would be a huge attraction.

 

[possm]

Possm is right in his thoughts of we need TPA's. However I think his understanding or potentially plan of gaining them is a little misguided.

Possm is also not far off the mark if we say had a 'company' set up just to fund TPA's. My question is, if there was such a entity are they allowed to advertise on the Dragons jersey or at the stadium?

i know other clubs have them, no doubt they do it under the table but you still have to be very smart about it and leave no trail if you go the path of using a Mark Coyne. Otherwise you end up in the same spot as Bulldogs, Storm, Eels etc.

The biggest challenge of having a TPA 'company' set up as Possm is suggesting.. what's in it for them? Where is their financial gain and the gain for an investor? Otherwise it's just a very silly business investment for those that 'fund' the company.

I don't claim to be a lawyer or an expert on this TPA thing however, other clubs have worked it out nicely and the NRL aren't chasing them.

To avoid some confusion, change 'company' to a trust fund.
WIN have a long list of sponsors/customers who advertise on TV trying to gain exposure in the Illawarra District and elsewhere. These advertisements are usually just one part of an agencies campaign - printed, billboard, radio etc.

Arrange for WIN and their agencies to map out a way for sponsors to gain the exposure they want/need by sponsoring a marquee player.

Let it be known to all player managers, that a TPA for a Dragons marquee player may be available by contacting .............

 

[Old Timer]

I don't claim to be a lawyer or an expert on this TPA thing however, other clubs have worked it out nicely and the NRL aren't chasing them.

To avoid some confusion, change 'company' to a trust fund.
WIN have a long list of sponsors/customers who advertise on TV trying to gain exposure in the Illawarra District and elsewhere. These advertisements are usually just one part of an agencies campaign - printed, billboard, radio etc.

Arrange for WIN and their agencies to map out a way for sponsors to gain the exposure they want/need by sponsoring a marquee player.

Let it be known to all player managers, that a TPA for a Dragons marquee player may be available by contacting .............

Possm
You have to be careful of 3rd line enforcing rules.
Quite easy to run into trouble with the ACCC on such matters let alone the NRL auditors.

 

[possm]

Possm
You have to be careful of 3rd line enforcing rules.
Quite easy to run into trouble with the ACCC on such matters let alone the NRL auditors.

Surely, the must be some entity not in the TPA for rich clubs only tank?

 

[BennyV]

So BennyV please give me your take on HOW the Broncos, Storm, Dogs, Bunnies, Eels and maybe the Sharks, Raiders, Sea Eagles ......... have, without any input from their Football Clubs, have managed to regularly have access to TPAs when signing players. I mean how did the Roosts all of a sudden come up with about 500k in TPA for Tedesco coincidently right at the time they were negotiating with Tedesco's manager.

Anyway maybe it is the Leagues Club that needs to arrange something or a major business in the St George District. I feel sure the clubs mentioned above had some input into arranging the infrastructure to facilitate TPA but not directly dealing with each individual TPA.

It is just not good enough to say we can't do it. If other clubs have done it, we most certainly can also do it.

For goodness sakes, 750k is too lower price for Dugan but the Roosters pay 700k of cap for Tedesco.

Again, you're doing it wrong. Completely missing the point.

The fact that you dont know how the other clubs do it is the reason that they get away with it.

You're calling for someone at th club to confirm that we have access to illegal third party agreements for players, as well as calling for a club legend, who was recently employed as a consultant, to be charged with obtaining these. Both of these would be madness as they basically invite investigations.

As a fan, the less we know about this is better. Speculation re: Roosters, Broncos, Dogs etc is perfect for their fans because nothing can be proved by anyone. Any actual knowledge of it simply invites suspicion, investigation and bad press.

 

[possm]

Maybe your right. I was talking about legal TPAs, the ones that are registered by the NRL. And I was only talking about an entity to set up a framework to do this for St George Football Club. I take you point about Coyne, so that's fine if he is still employed by St George Football Club then find someone else.

In my opinion there is less activity in the illegal sphere of TPAs than the legal system. I only want legal TPAs to be available to Dragons marquee players.

 

[SET2JT]

Main problem with us the knights, Gold coast and the Tigers is because we are owned by the Nrl. Its a lot harder to do shiftys when the owners are looking at our books.

 

[denis preston]

We are owned by the NRL ?

 

[SET2JT]

Y

We are owned by the NRL ?

yes the other clubs are privately owned

 

[possm]

We are not owned by the NRL. We are in debt to the NRL.
Contrary to some statements on the forum, WIN are still in negotiations with the Dragons regarding a buy in. If the buy in happens, we will not be in debt to the NRL and the Illawarra side of the joint venture, will not be in debt to their St George partners.

I firmly believe that if WIN are successful in their bid to become a 50% partner, the Dragons will be in a much better financial position and I dare to say, compete well in recruitment using TPAs.

 

[Saints Forever]

We are not owned by the NRL. We are in debt to the NRL.
Contrary to some statements on the forum, WIN are still in negotiations with the Dragons regarding a buy in. If the buy in happens, we will not be in debt to the NRL and the Illawarra side of the joint venture, will not be in debt to their St George partners.

I firmly believe that if WIN are successful in their bid to become a 50% partner, the Dragons will be in a much better financial position and I dare to say, compete well in recruitment using TPAs.

Possm, love your optimism regarding WIN

My view is they have too many financial issues of their own to seriously contemplate becoming a JV Partner.

Any proposed partner who offers advertising time by way of payment to the NRL of the existing debt is not a serious player in the JV game.

If from 2018 the TV deal will underpin the financial security of all clubs, then all clubs become significant advertising vehicles for major businesses. Given our "brand" is very widely known, we could well see significant corporate interest shown in our club. The catch however is most corporations require majority ownership.

Be careful what you wish for. As useless as Doust and co have proven to be over the past 20 years they have managed to maintain our name and colours.