Why no transfer fees in NRL?

[langpark]

In most pro sports, you have to buy players from other clubs (usually a form of compensation to the club for the player breaking contract early).

I think it's also a great way to reward the clubs that produce all the talent, and 'punish' those that produce none. Is there any good reason as to why this does not exist in the NRL?

 

[Danish]

Most players are signed once their current contract expires, so no transfer fee would be applicable.

Those that are purchased mid contract generally have a negotiated deal between the clubs that may include compensation, but I think most clubs shy away from deals requiring that as it gets added to their salary cap (unless you are Souths signing Sammy Burgess of course)

 

[POPEYE]

Transfer fees for one club players being turned into transients would be nice . . . hefty ones

 

[langpark]

I think it could only be a good thing for the game and even more incentive for clubs to focus on their junior talent and youth systems.

 

[Dogs Of War]

Look up Buckley v Tutty from 1971 when Dennis Tutty successfully challenged the NSWRL transfer system as a restraint of trade. Not happening.

 

[sensesmaybenumbed]

In most pro sports, you have to buy players from other clubs (usually a form of compensation to the club for the player breaking contract early)
I think it's also a great way to reward the clubs that produce all the talent, and 'punish' those that produce none. Is there any good reason as to why this does not exist in the NRL?

Yes. The reason is Easts and Brisbane.

 

[Paullyboy]

Look up Buckley v Tutty from 1971 when Dennis Tutty successfully challenged the NSWRL transfer system as a restraint of trade. Not happening.

What is it with rugby league players and "restraint of trade". F*cken lawyers ruin the best ideas.

 

[Captain Apollo]

What is it with rugby league players and "restraint of trade". F*cken lawyers ruin the best ideas.

The thing is you should read up on what happened in his case, the Tigers treated him poorly and he had little choice but to take them to court. Have a read of this article - http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/ANZSportsLawJl/2009/7.pdf

It goes in to very specific detail on the case, and how Tutty sat out 2 years fighting this in court. It is a legal; journal but it has a lot of detail about what happened and the circumstances around the case.

I mean how would you feel about not being able to switch employers if you chose to, solely because your current employer said you couldn't?

 

[Paullyboy]

The thing is you should read up on what happened in his case, the Tigers treated him poorly and he had little choice but to take them to court. Have a read of this article - http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/ANZSportsLawJl/2009/7.pdf

It goes in to very specific detail on the case, and how Tutty sat out 2 years fighting this in court. It is a legal; journal but it has a lot of detail about what happened and the circumstances around the case.

I mean how would you feel about not being able to switch employers if you chose to, solely because your current employer said you couldn't?

I'll be honest, on another day I'd probably find that fascinating, but haven't got the energy to sift through that at the moment.

Was he on a set length contract though? If so, I have zero issue with this club saying he couldn't play elsewhere.

 

[T-Boon]

Surely transfer fees are only paid in other sports when the player is switching when already under contract. Once they hit free agency they can do what they like in those sports.

Its too easy and painful for fans for players at Sydney clubs to switch to other Sydney clubs. Get rid of about 4 sydney teams by relocating them (Roosters, Rabbitohs, Cronulla, Penrith, maybe also Tigers) and bring one new super sydney team in to represent inner/eastern sydney.

 

[Pete Cash]

Most players are signed once their current contract expires, so no transfer fee would be applicable.

Those that are purchased mid contract generally have a negotiated deal between the clubs that may include compensation, but I think most clubs shy away from deals requiring that as it gets added to their salary cap (unless you are Souths signing Sammy Burgess of course)

Are you sure that this is the case ?

I dont think the raiders transfer fee paid to hull KR for Hodgson counted on the salary cap. Most clubs are just cheap and would rather not pay an English club for a player who may or may not work in Australia.

 

[ed-grimley]

Surely transfer fees are only paid in other sports when the player is switching when already under contract. Once they hit free agency they can do what they like in those sports.

Its too easy and painful for fans for players at Sydney clubs to switch to other Sydney clubs. Get rid of about 4 sydney teams by relocating them (Roosters, Rabbitohs, Cronulla, Penrith, maybe also Tigers) and bring one new super sydney team in to represent inner/eastern sydney.

Good luck with that.

 

[Captain Apollo]

I'll be honest, on another day I'd probably find that fascinating, but haven't got the energy to sift through that at the moment.

Was he on a set length contract though? If so, I have zero issue with this club saying he couldn't play elsewhere.

I'll quote some parts of the article I cited in my previous post and it should answer your question -

He started playing with Balmain at the beginning of the 1964 season, as an

amateur, aged 18. In achieving his schoolboy dream he was unaware of the
implications of this decision. In the transcript of Elford v Buckley, a case decided
in 1969, it was revealed that players did not receive copies of the Constitution
and By-Laws, Standing Orders and Competition Rules of the NSWRL.24 These
rules granted complete authority to clubs in their dealings with players, as is
made clear by the following two clauses from Rule 30:

(c) A player who signs as a professional player should note carefully
that he is in effect tied to his Club and cannot subsequently sign for
any other club unless he is released–either by transfer or by the club
agreeing to strike his name from their list of registered players.

(f) Unless the Club agrees in writing that the player’s name shall be
removed from their list of registered players at a stated time then the
Club is entitled to retain the player’s name on its register indefinitely.


Later on during the 1964 season, Tutty entered into a contract with Balmain

with a specified scale of payments, depending on the grade he played and
whether or not the team won or lost. The most he could earn was £20, for a
win with the first grade team. During his first season he played in all three
grades.28 He was a member of the grand final team which lost to St George.
He quickly developed a reputation as a hard tackling and highly competitive
lock. His rugby league income for 1964 totalled £255.29 In May 1964 the
Commonwealth Conciliation and Arbitration Commission increased the Basic
Wage – the minimum wage paid to an adult (21 year old) male unskilled worker –
to £15 8 shillings a week.

The years 1966 and 1967 were stellar seasons for Tutty. He won best and fairest

awards at Balmain. He also received representative honours when he played for
Australia in his only test match against New Zealand. Given his increasing status
in the game, he believed he should receive a sizeable increase in his payments.
This belief was further reinforced by a realisation that Dave Bolton,34 a Great
Britain half-back, who played with Balmain from 1965 to 1970, had received
a signing-on fee, according to Tutty, of £12,000.35

Prior to the commencement of the 1968 season, Tutty sought a meeting with
Kevin Humphries, the Secretary of Balmain to obtain a ‘decent’ signing-on
fee. This is the same Kevin Humphries who was subsequently convicted for
defrauding the Balmain club of more than $52,000.36 Tutty was unsuccessful
in this quest. On 5 March 1968 he wrote to Humphries requesting that he be
removed from the club’s retain list, so that he could seek employment elsewhere.
Humphries replied three days later, denying this request, informing him that he
could appeal this decision to the NSWRL38 which he duly did.

Balmain coach and former player, Keith Barnes,40 interceded and convinced
Tutty to change his mind. The two had played together in the past and Barnes
was someone Tutty held in high regard. Despite Rule 29 of the Constitution and
By-Laws of the New South Wales Rugby Football League clearly stating, that
‘All agreements between Clubs and Players must be in writing,’ Balmain and
Tutty entered into an oral agreement for the 1968 season where Tutty would
receive match payments of $200 a win and $60 a loss in fi rst grade matches.
His earnings for 1968 may have approximated $2,400.



During the 1968 season, Tutty had a full-time job as a receiving clerk with

the Egg Marketing Board. His take-home pay was $45 to $46 a week. On
25 October 1968, the male minimum wage was increased to $38.72 a week.
He experienced a number of minor injuries during the early part of the season
and took time off from his secular employment to rest his injuries, and be fit to
maintain his place in the first grade team. This resulted in him leaving his job
with the Egg Marketing Board. His desire to play at his best trumped the need
to maintain his secular employment.

At the end of the 1968 season, Balmain again placed Tutty on its retain list. On

14 October 1968, he wrote to Kevin Humphries requesting that he be placed
on the transfer list. This was refused. In his Scrap Book there is a newspaper

report where he is quoted as saying that he would play for Balmain for nothing

in 1969, if the club agreed to let him transfer to another club next year, for a
transfer fee less than $1,000. He said:

"I consider I have been unfairly treated by Balmain and am
determined to get away … They didn’t offer me 5c more than
I received last season … When I asked for a clearance I asked
to be present at the meeting but they refused … They haven’t
spoken to me since, despite the fact that I work at the Leagues
club … I can make three times more than I have been offered by
Balmain by playing elsewhere. I would be mad not to want to
get away … Balmain tell you they just can’t pay you any more
money then turn around and buy several players from the country
and Queensland … The fact is that Balmain does not look after
players from its junior ranks."

When told of Tutty’s offer, Kevin Humphries said:


"We will treat Dennis Tutty as we treat every other player. He can play
with us under our terms and request a clearance at the end of the
season … If Tutty makes himself available we’ll decide what to do
with him … We can’t have players making ultimatums to us. At the
moment Tutty has no offer from us – we cancelled the original offer
we made to him until he makes himself available."

So under the NSWRL's rules at the time you were forever tied to the one club and you could not move to another club at any time even if you did not have a contract, as the club who originally signed you merely had to say they wanted to retain you.

Tutty was off contract at the end of 1968.

 

[jaseg]

That Tutty case is basically RL's version of the Bosman ruling - in other words, ensuring actual free agency at the end of a contract, rather than forcing registration to stay with a club until the club agrees to transfer.

Transfer fees can still be paid for players under contract if both clubs agree.

Conflicting reports about the NRL counting or not counting these under salary caps - if they do and a club wanted to challenge that, it wouldn't stand up in court... the key being the word 'salary'. A transfer fee is paid to a club who holds the registration, not the player - and is not a salary (transfer fees in world football are a little different - I believe something like 10% of the transfer fee goes to the player provided they haven't submitted a formal transfer request, so if that were the case in RL - it's not - then that money would count under the cap, as it is paid to the player).

Most NRL clubs operate on a fairly tight budget and besides that it's just not the thing (culturally) to pay transfer fees, so it doesn't happen very often.. instead they release players when it becomes beneficial (free up cap space, player trade etc etc).

 

[big hit!]

In most pro sports, you have to buy players from other clubs (usually a form of compensation to the club for the player breaking contract early).

I think it's also a great way to reward the clubs that produce all the talent, and 'punish' those that produce none. Is there any good reason as to why this does not exist in the NRL?

you obviously have no idea about most how pro sports deal with this.

and the sport that does have it, i.e., football/soccer, a transfer fee is paid by the destination club to the players incumbent club only if the player has a term remaining on the contract. if the player is near or out of contract, there's no transfer fee, i.e., bosman transfer.

 

[siv]

I would like to see a $2k transfer fee paid by U16 or U18s clubs to a players junior club for developing that junior club if from outside of your district

And a transfer fee of $5k if a player transfers from U16 aged club

$10k if a U18 club transfer

$15k if a U20 transfer or RM Cup club level transfer to a non feeder club

$20k if a NSW or Qld Cup level transfer to a non feeder club

But I thought the Denis Tutty case may have killed all of this off

 

[RazorRam0n]

The main issue with transfer fees in nrl is the disparity of nurseries amongst Sydney sides...and you'd end up with broncos getting an even bigger leg up than they have already

 

[Perth Red]

Bosman ruling

 

[langpark]

Look up Buckley v Tutty from 1971 when Dennis Tutty successfully challenged the NSWRL transfer system as a restraint of trade. Not happening.

Thank you mate, interesting read. What a shame though that it set the precedent that it has now!

 

[langpark]

Are you sure that this is the case ?

I dont think the raiders transfer fee paid to hull KR for Hodgson counted on the salary cap. Most clubs are just cheap and would rather not pay an English club for a player who may or may not work in Australia.

That is definitely NOT the case and that's why in the title I specifically wrote 'NRL' and not 'Rugby League', because in the English Super League, transfer fees DO exist!! NZ Warriors reportedly paid Wigan £700,000 when they signed Sam Tomkins! Take a look at this link:

http://www.wigantoday.net/sport/rug...s/warriors-bank-1m-in-transfer-fees-1-6321940