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Why clubs want the NRL to fund Junior development

possm

Coach
Messages
16,257
I'm hoping that our new CEO will stand up for SGI interests with regard to funding junior development. I found an article written in Jan 2014 which highlights the problem and indicates why SGI is a giver rather than a taker and if things do not change, we will fall behind many other Clubs who are directing their expenditure towards their NRL division rather than junior development.

In the past our Club has not vigorously fought for compensation from the NRL or gaining Clubs for compensation for junior development costs. I think that with a new CEO it is now time to stand up and be more active in this area.

My suggestion is that we allocate more resources to identify elite juniors who have potential to become an NRL player and have our Illawarra and St George junior clubs fund longer term contracts to secure these players. In this way any club including SGI would have to pay for the release of these players and these funds directed towards funding the SGI junior development program. In this way, over time, SGI could re-direct significant expenditure away from junior development and towards their NRL activities putting them in line with other Clubs.

I have pasted the contents of the article below with a link.

$49,000 per junior: Why clubs want the NRL to fund development
St George Illawarra has spent up to $3.5 million developing 70 players currently with other clubs in the NRL, NSW Cup or under-20s National Youth Competition.

North Queensland have developed 67 players at a similar cost who are now contracted elsewhere in the NRL or play in other elite competitions such as the NYC and Queensland Cup, while more than 50 players who have come through Wests Tigers ranks are playing for rival clubs at either NRL or NYC level.
Development doesn't come cheap: The Raiders spent seven years developing Anthony Milford and will now lose him for nothing.


The figures are similar at other "development clubs" such as Canberra, Penrith, Parramatta and Newcastle, who along with the Dragons, Cowboys and Tigers supply the vast majority of talent for the NRL and other elite competitions.
The cost of developing each player from the age of 15 until they are ready for the NYC is estimated to be about $49,000, which Knights recruitment manager Peter Mulholland says includes gym fees, coaching, playing and training gear, physiotherapy and medical expenses.


Yet clubs such as St George Illawarra receive no real compensation for the players they produce from either those who recruit them or the game itself.

"This is all fundamental to the growth of the game and, from a St George Illawarra point of view, we do a lot for the game by developing elite players and continuing to invest in the game's propagation, which means participation, fans and members," Dragons chief executive Peter Doust said.


The NRL has been working with the clubs on a review of player development structures but the issue has been thrust firmly in the spotlight by Canberra's loss of boom fullback Anthony Milford to Brisbane and the Raiders targeting of West Tigers rising star James Tedesco.

Milford, 20, has been in the Raiders junior system since the age of 13 and had played just 18 NRL games when he agreed to a $900,000 per season deal with the Broncos, prompting frustrated officials to question the value of their $3 million annual investment in the club's elite development programs and the local Canberra Region Rugby League competition.

Despite Tedesco's backflip last week on a $2 million, three-year deal with Canberra, Tigers chief executive Grant Mayer is also contemplating cuts to development programs worth between $600,000 and $1 million per year.

Doust and North Queensland chief executive Peter Jourdain say their clubs spend a similar amount each season.

"We have kids as young as 13 running around in the south-west of Sydney and in the inner-west that are basically linked to the Wests Tigers, and say in the under 13s we will have 60 kids that we put through a three or four month program each year," Mayer explains.

"But how many of those kids will come through and play NRL? It could be one. So consider the amount of money spent through 13s, 14s, 15s, 16s and upwards on developing that one kid, and that one kid can then choose where he goes.

"You look at guys like Ben Te'o, Sam Moa and even before that Jarryd Hayne and Israel Folau came out of our catchment area ... but if one of them go on to play State of Origin or Test football what does this club get for that?"

Mulholland, who previously worked at Penrith and Canterbury, said: "There is a lot of cost in developing a kid and in my opinion the game should take control of development completely, then hand it back to the clubs in the sense that you have your development officers come out in their Wests Tigers gear or Penrith Panthers gear because kids associate with a Dragon or a Panther - not an NRL logo".

With the NRL requesting clubs submit individual business plans as part of the new funding model to be introduced next season, Doust has asked the NRL to use the discretionary funding element of the system to support the development work the Dragons have invested so heavily in since the 1999 merger between St George and Illawarra.

To offset a reduction over recent years of up to $5 million in funding from their leagues clubs, the Dragons have adopted the "right game, right venue" strategy to increase revenue by moving four home games to bigger venues and Doust said they did not want to cut back on development.

"We would like the NRL to contribute as we have for many, many years in supporting those programs rather than see the club retreat to just an elite program," Doust said.

"I think we have heard people like Wests Tigers talking about not investing in developing young players if we keep having them taken from our programs, well our view is that we have produced 70 for the game and we don't see that as a negative. You can't keep them all but if they are in the game and they are developing the product of rugby league we should all be happy about that."

Jourdain said the Cowboys were happy to fund their own elite pathways but believe the NRL should administer or provide grants for general game development in North Queensland under the Cowboys banner.

"We counted 67 players last week who had been in our junior development programs, and that includes guys like Aiden Guerra at the Roosters," Jourdain said.

"I think we should continue to do that for our own club's benefit but we should get some increase in our grant towards the general development stuff we do or if it is more co-ordinated and funded by the NRL that is fine as well."

North Queensland spent about $500,000 per year on each of the two areas, while the annual cost of elite development for the Dragons - who run separate St George and Illawarra teams in the Harold Mathews and SG Ball competitions - is about $800,000. In comparison, some teams are estimated to spend little more than $100,000 per year.

"Already those clubs are going to be ahead of us as a club and they will put that money in NRL football structure and they will invest more money in sports science, in equipment and facilities," Mayer said.

"They have made that choice and good luck to them whereas we have made the choice to I guess let our facilities start to crumble to a certain degree and spend the money on the development of young kids."

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/49...e-nrl-to-fund-development-20140607-zs0gb.html
 

AyiosYiorgos

Coach
Messages
14,360
Needs something to be put in place either salary cap way or full compensation to clubs, teams like the rorters can afford to target the best of the best juniors from each club and bring them in and continue to develop their last year or so and make out that they brought them through after 90% of the work was done by other clubs...
 

getsmarty

Immortal
Messages
35,348
Needs something to be put in place either salary cap way or full compensation to clubs, teams like the rorters can afford to target the best of the best juniors from each club and bring them in and continue to develop their last year or so and make out that they brought them through after 90% of the work was done by other clubs...

Did you hear about the Roosters Fan ? Went to the club & wanted to buy a hat...the store assistant replied...we haven't had a cap in years....Boom Boom..
 

possm

Coach
Messages
16,257
Needs something to be put in place either salary cap way or full compensation to clubs, teams like the rorters can afford to target the best of the best juniors from each club and bring them in and continue to develop their last year or so and make out that they brought them through after 90% of the work was done by other clubs...
That is a great thought. Now I think about it, how about a 500k TPA from the NRL?
 

Dragonslayer

First Grade
Messages
7,854
Junior development is probably not the issue imo.
The issues for me sits with:

A. The number of clubs now in the competition. Especially the intro of interstate teams.

B. Opportunity and road blocks. Theres a point in any young players career when they believe they are ready. Wether the coaching ataff believe that is anither thing. Adding to that is coaches prefer established players over rookies yet there are some who will give them their chance. Bird is a perfect example of this.

C. Buying a premiership. The Roosters and Manly are specialists at this. Far easier and quicker to buy players than develop them over time.

These are just a few issues and really just scratching the surface.

How to fix it is a major concern, but the way our game is designed now its almost impossible to have a set plan in place for any junior player. Some develop quickly and show so much promise only to really not have it. Some take longer but end up great players. Injuries are also a factor. Some just lose interest due to the committment required to be a professional footballer. And some just lose the plot altogether.

The introduction of the Development Players is a atep in the right direction but i feel even that could be expanded on. Having 6 seems too restrictive, especially when they could be on that list for 2yrs or more. My suggestion could be:

6 young players on Development contract who are eligible to play NRL.
6 young players on tier 2 Development contract who aren't eligible to play NRL but can play ISP (if required).

All train with the NRL squad.

I think this would at least show a player a pathway through the system and show them the club wants them to play for them.

The tier 2 players would have a cap of say 60-80k per player funded by the NRL.

Thats all i can think of.
 

possm

Coach
Messages
16,257
Junior development is probably not the issue imo.
The issues for me sits with:

A. The number of clubs now in the competition. Especially the intro of interstate teams.

B. Opportunity and road blocks. Theres a point in any young players career when they believe they are ready. Wether the coaching ataff believe that is anither thing. Adding to that is coaches prefer established players over rookies yet there are some who will give them their chance. Bird is a perfect example of this.

C. Buying a premiership. The Roosters and Manly are specialists at this. Far easier and quicker to buy players than develop them over time.

These are just a few issues and really just scratching the surface.

How to fix it is a major concern, but the way our game is designed now its almost impossible to have a set plan in place for any junior player. Some develop quickly and show so much promise only to really not have it. Some take longer but end up great players. Injuries are also a factor. Some just lose interest due to the committment required to be a professional footballer. And some just lose the plot altogether.

The introduction of the Development Players is a atep in the right direction but i feel even that could be expanded on. Having 6 seems too restrictive, especially when they could be on that list for 2yrs or more. My suggestion could be:

6 young players on Development contract who are eligible to play NRL.
6 young players on tier 2 Development contract who aren't eligible to play NRL but can play ISP (if required).

All train with the NRL squad.

I think this would at least show a player a pathway through the system and show them the club wants them to play for them.

The tier 2 players would have a cap of say 60-80k per player funded by the NRL.

Thats all i can think of.

I think you might have missed the point:
  1. Roosters spend big on coaching staff and training facilities.
  2. Dragons spend that extra coin on developing juniors.
Incoming first grade players don't care much for our juniors they care about the quality of coaching they are going to get, the training facilities they will us most days of the week and the quality of the squad they will play with.
 

Dragonslayer

First Grade
Messages
7,854
I think you might have missed the point:
  1. Roosters spend big on coaching staff and training facilities.
  2. Dragons spend that extra coin on developing juniors.
Incoming first grade players don't care much for our juniors they care about the quality of coaching they are going to get, the training facilities they will us most days of the week and the quality of the squad they will play with.

Not really.

I think points B and C cover off the Roosters case perfectly. But to assume they don't develop players isn't right. Just from their current squad there is Manu, Mitchell, Cordner, Napa, Friend and Radley to name but a few and yeah we would most probably want to sign them all if they were available.
 

possm

Coach
Messages
16,257
Not really.

I think points B and C cover off the Roosters case perfectly. But to assume they don't develop players isn't right. Just from their current squad there is Manu, Mitchell, Cordner, Napa, Friend and Radley to name but a few and yeah we would most probably want to sign them all if they were available.

It is not just about producing players for their own NRL team. It's about developing a junior rugby league structure that exposes potential young players to the game via a junior competition in their district. Souths and Canterbury are close neighbours and do the job fine.

Soccer and AFL are slowly increasing their share of the market while Rugby Leage is slowly losing their share.
 

Dragonslayer

First Grade
Messages
7,854
It is not just about producing players for their own NRL team. It's about developing a junior rugby league structure that exposes potential young players to the game via a junior competition in their district. Souths and Canterbury are close neighbours and do the job fine.

Soccer and AFL are slowly increasing their share of the market while Rugby Leage is slowly losing their share.

This is so true and I would go as far as saying quickly rather than slowly. My nephew loved playing league but his school held an AFL clinic and he was hooked on it straight away. Now he's played in 2 GF and won both. wants to play for the Swans now.
Yesterday, the AFL GF had 100k at the game, with 1 interstate team. It's so tribal and no matter what you think of the game itself, the fact is they get 30-50k+ to a game each week is incredible. How many are forecast for todays game Storm V Roosters (I know capacity is around 80k now)? I heard they are discounting tickets by 30% to all club members. Sad really.
 

watatank

Coach
Messages
14,291
Not really.

I think points B and C cover off the Roosters case perfectly. But to assume they don't develop players isn't right. Just from their current squad there is Manu, Mitchell, Cordner, Napa, Friend and Radley to name but a few and yeah we would most probably want to sign them all if they were available.

There's some development going on but the players get signed around 16-18 and all just so happen to be mostly junior rep stars. Then we start to hear about them come through at the Roosters.
 

SaintPauli

Juniors
Messages
1,179
There's some development going on but the players get signed around 16-18 and all just so happen to be mostly junior rep stars. Then we start to hear about them come through at the Roosters.
Yes and as Possm said we waste a lot of business money developing juniors with no additional NRL funding. I would rather change that to buying the best juniors in the NRL as the Roosters do! And advise the NRL junior development funding by dragons will be minimised.
 

getsmarty

Immortal
Messages
35,348
Yes and as Possm said we waste a lot of business money developing juniors with no additional NRL funding. I would rather change that to buying the best juniors in the NRL as the Roosters do! And advise the NRL junior development funding by dragons will be minimised.

Correct...
 

possm

Coach
Messages
16,257
Yes and as Possm said we waste a lot of business money developing juniors with no additional NRL funding. I would rather change that to buying the best juniors in the NRL as the Roosters do! And advise the NRL junior development funding by dragons will be minimised.

Not so, Dragons develop many players who will never play NRL and only a few will play SOO. The Dragons unselfishly train/coach/develop a pool of grass roots juniors and provide them with organised competitions in an effort to allow the cream to rise to the top. This costs the Dragons a significant amount of time and resources.

Some other clubs provide a much smaller contribution to the development of juniors and use their funds to buy the cream.

All would even out if the Dragons were compensated by the NRL club who is buying their juniors. Dragons would effectively be out of pocket less and the buying club would have to pay more. Heaven knows, it may well be that the current buying clubs would consider it more cost effective to expand their junior development programs.
 

SaintPauli

Juniors
Messages
1,179
Not so, Dragons develop many players who will never play NRL and only a few will play SOO. The Dragons unselfishly train/coach/develop a pool of grass roots juniors and provide them with organised competitions in an effort to allow the cream to rise to the top. This costs the Dragons a significant amount of time and resources.

Some other clubs provide a much smaller contribution to the development of juniors and use their funds to buy the cream.

All would even out if the Dragons were compensated by the NRL club who is buying their juniors. Dragons would effectively be out of pocket less and the buying club would have to pay more. Heaven knows, it may well be that the current buying clubs would consider it more cost effective to expand their junior development programs.
Yes I get your point Possm however my only concern is we waste money on lesser talented juniors (NOT ALL) whereas the Roosters pick the best of the best as they utilize all their available funds in acheiving strong junior teams across the park and literally on a yearly basis.

The dragons may manage that feat every few years.
 

Slippery Morris

First Grade
Messages
8,050
The Salary cap should be based on how much you spend on Junior development. Clubs that spend more on Junior development get more of a salary cap. That may make other teams all of a sudden start spending on juniors and scouts.

Also with the example in the article above regarding Milford, if a club outside the one developing them offers them say 1mil to leave, the junior club can offer half and the NRL subsidise the rest or allow their own (NRL thats is) 3rd parties to pay the rest.
 
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