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Rumoured and Confirmed signings - Part 4

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franklin2323

Immortal
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33,547
Yeah, I get and respect fandom - we're all fans. I'm just surprised at the extent to which emotion overrules rational thought (generally, not you specifically).

Teams that can get Blake running into gaps will get value from him - just don't expect him to create from nothing, beat his opposite 1 on 1 or effectively use his outside man. Might seem critical but trying to view his performances objectively.

It isn't critical for a few seasons now we have been waiting for these sort of guys to take the next step and for some reason it hasn't. At some stage had to bite the bullet and start again.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
24,285
Both I don't think would of improved for us and if the rumour contracts are too be believed then it was the right choice to move them on

They both have a lot of talent but they just haven't produced well enough for us. Both have been close to taking that next step and haven't been able to make it stick.

Ive been arguing Dallin should be fullback since about 2015. Seriously backing him to do well there but he got his golden opportunity this season and completely failed to grab it. Waqa had a great season last year and a great back half of 2016 but he has completely failed to show any consistency across seasons. He wont run over players despite his freakish athleticism and size, he wont carry the ball in his other hand or two hands, he doesn't go looking for work. Waqa could be throwing defenders off like Latrell at his best if he wanted, when has he? He just tries to go around them all the time.

We can find guys to produce what Dallin and Waqa produce most weeks for minimum wage or close to it. Both Dallins and Waqas replacements are already doing much better than they have all season, two guys who didn't even have nrl contracts in round 1 are outperforming the potential stars we released. That is the reality.
 

OldPanther

Coach
Messages
13,404
Out of our regular first graders(not including guys yet to establish themselves such as Luai and Kenny) the only untouchables are Kikau and JFH. Everyone else can be touched IMO.

I agree but would add Cleary because his good and bad game are so close together. You'll always get a 6 or 7 out of 10. Just need the right players around him.

Guess that's why Luai and Maloney compliment him since they have the eyes up natural instincts.
 

MrBlack

Juniors
Messages
1,474
Out of our regular first graders(not including guys yet to establish themselves such as Luai and Kenny) the only untouchables are Kikau and JFH. Everyone else can be touched IMO.

That list I based on where I think we are going.

Like it or not, Cleary is our half for the next few years. That much wont change.

The others are the players I see us building the team around.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
24,285
That list I based on where I think we are going.

Like it or not, Cleary is our half for the next few years. That much wont change.

The others are the players I see us building the team around.

Oh I don't think Cleary is going anywhere but hes on a big contract so If someone did come knocking id consider it.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,547
They both have a lot of talent but they just haven't produced well enough for us. Both have been close to taking that next step and haven't been able to make it stick.

Ive been arguing Dallin should be fullback since about 2015. Seriously backing him to do well there but he got his golden opportunity this season and completely failed to grab it. Waqa had a great season last year and a great back half of 2016 but he has completely failed to show any consistency across seasons. He wont run over players despite his freakish athleticism and size, he wont carry the ball in his other hand or two hands, he doesn't go looking for work. Waqa could be throwing defenders off like Latrell at his best if he wanted, when has he? He just tries to go around them all the time.

We can find guys to produce what Dallin and Waqa produce most weeks for minimum wage or close to it. Both Dallins and Waqas replacements are already doing much better than they have all season, two guys who didn't even have nrl contracts in round 1 are outperforming the potential stars we released. That is the reality.

I like ball playing FB in a side that is why I didn't want him there but offered more at Centre than Whare has the last few seasons.

I am by no way saying To'o is as good as DWZ not yet anyway but on stats

Metres gained per game To'o 169. DWZ 112
Linebreaks To'o 0.6. DWZ 0.2
Tacklebreaks To'o 4.4. DWZ 2.2
Errors To'o 1. DWZ 1

To'o would be on 20% of DWZ salary yet atm is doing better
Similar for Naden v Blake

Given we don't do sweeping backline plays and won't do for a few seasons atm these moves are better going forward
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
24,285
I like ball playing FB in a side that is why I didn't want him there but offered more at Centre than Whare has the last few seasons.

I am by no way saying To'o is as good as DWZ not yet anyway but on stats

Metres gained per game To'o 169. DWZ 112
Linebreaks To'o 0.6. DWZ 0.2
Tacklebreaks To'o 4.4. DWZ 2.2
Errors To'o 1. DWZ 1

To'o would be on 20% of DWZ salary yet atm is doing better
Similar for Naden v Blake

Given we don't do sweeping backline plays and won't do for a few seasons atm these moves are better going forward

The numbers speak for themselves, you cannot say moving Dallin on was a bad move looking at those figures. And yet people will use it as a criticism of the club. Should we really hold onto a winger who is being conservatively estimated to be on 500k and some say more when we have rookies who come in and outperform him? The answer is no f**king way, remove the emotional attachment from the players and that is blindly obvious. The idea that we need to hold onto our player for longer doesn't wash with me, not if it means holding onto bad contracts.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,547
The numbers speak for themselves, you cannot say moving Dallin on was a bad move looking at those figures. And yet people will use as a criticism of the club. Should we really hold onto a winger who is being conservatively estimated to be on 500k and some say more when we have rookies and come in and outperform them? The answer is no f**king way, remove the emotional attachment from the players and that is blindly obvious.

I think DWZ still has a potential bigger ceiling BUT no point if he isn't going to get there. How those guys kick on elsewhere and how we use the money now is key to whether it was the right choice or not
 
Messages
21,880
Over the course of the last five seasons or so we’ve enjoyed reasonable success without ever quite having the quality to win a premiership.

In recent weeks we have seen improved performances on the back of some younger players being blooded and there are plenty more coming thru make no mistake about that.

There’s always more coming through. The enthusiasm has been welcome, but enthusiasm doesn’t always last.


It’s interesting to me that the best team under Phil Gould’s watch was the 2014 one, which was heavy on recruits.

That team had

Idris
Simmons
Whare
Soward
Segeyaro
Kite
Manu
Peachey
Latimore

That debuted for another NRL team.
 
Messages
21,880
How many years are you wanting to go back here ? 1967 perhaps then Also Martin came from W/T he was never a Panthers developed player,

You might’ve missed my point. I was just listing those guys to highlight how long we’ve been talking about the next crop on this message board.

I’ve been posting here for 13 years, I’ve seen this exact conversation many times. Basically it always boils down to “don’t worry, the next crop is really special”, invariably they’re not special.


It’s our white whale.
 
Messages
21,880
FMD, So many pessimistic merkins these days. We should just be happy to overpay average first graders? Your idea of redevelopment is the club trying to improve.

How about don’t sign them up to long, overpaid deals in the first place?

We wouldn’t see these mid season moves or players not seeing out their contract if we signed more realistic deals.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
24,285
How about don’t sign them up to long, overpaid deals in the first place?

We wouldn’t see these mid season moves or players not seeing out their contract if we signed more realistic deals.

We’d just be losing them at 19 and 20 and we’d all be blowing up about that.
 
Messages
21,880
We’d just be losing them at 19 and 20 and we’d all be blowing up about that.

Blake was 23/24 was he signed a 5 year deal.

Moylan was 24/25

Whare was 26/27

RCG was 23/24

We even have a guy like Moses Leota signed up until the end of 2022.


Only young guys that got a deal like that is Cleary and Cartwright.



Really hoping the club moves away from these long deals now Gus is gone. I think there’s an argument it keeps players hungry, and it won’t end up with us paying as many guys to play elsewhere if they sign 3 year deals.
 

OldPanther

Coach
Messages
13,404
https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nr...d/news-story/3cbef27a7670781cea408d48f5881e43

Who would you pay a million bucks to if you were an NRL club?
Foxsports.com.au can reveal the 10 richest contracts currently running in the game, who’s on them and for how much.

Some may be considered bargain buys, while one looks more like bad roster management.

Here’s the NRL’s top-10 rich list for season 2019.

1. Daly Cherry-Evans ($1.3 million)

Gun player but this deal has got funnel web spiders all over it.

Not only is DCE earning $1.3 million this season, every time the salary cap goes up, the Manly skipper’s deal goes up with it!



Crunch the numbers and the DCE deal works out as 16.5 per cent of the Sea Eagles salary cap every season until 2023.

Talk to any club powerbroker and they all say the same thing. Madness.

2. Cameron Smith ($1.1 million)

Worth every cent. You name it, Smith has won it.

Good judges reason the Storm skipper is going as good now as ever.

In terms of his playing contract, the Smith deal is structured far smarter than DCE’s.

There’s around $800,000 in the Storm salary cap. Then there’s an extra $300,000 as a marquee player.

3. Roger Tuivasa-Sheck ($1.1 million)

Amid interest from the All Blacks, RTS struck a smart four-year deal to be the face of the Warriors until the end of 2022.

One of the best fullbacks in the game, the Kiwi speedster is a gun but there’s an argument given where the Warriors are currently sitting on the ladder, their salary cap management leaves a little to be desired.

4. Cooper Cronk ($1.05 million)

Ask the Roosters and recruiting Cronk was one of the most important signatures in the history of the club.

A two-year deal and a premiership in the first season. Impossible to argue.

Just look at the way Luke Keary has developed into one of the NRL’s best playmakers and there’s all the evidence needed about Cronk’s influence.

5. Sam Burgess ($1 million)

The best forward in the game. A model of consistency, Burgess is more likely to miss games through suspension than injury.

The forward leader who most club powerbrokers nominate as the player they would sign given an open cheque book and told to build a club.

6. Kieran Foran ($1 million)

Poor management by the Bulldogs’ previous administration.

Foran has been a very good player for a long time but his body was broken when Canterbury raced out and rolled out the red carpet.

Aside from the Warriors, there were no other NRL clubs in the bidding war.

Has missed large parts of the past two seasons through injuries and the real doozy is his deal goes up to $1.2 million next year. Value for money? No.

7. James Tedesco ($1 million)

Another smart play by the Sydney Roosters. Nick Politis has a reputation for being the sharpest negotiator in the business.

Landing the signature of Teddy is further proof.

The NSW and Australian fullback has continued to evolve his game since arriving at the Sydney Roosters and has thrived under the coaching of Trent Robinson.

8. Mitchell Pearce ($1 million)

The form halfback of the competition who has turned Newcastle into a genuine premiership contender.

Great signing given after the Knights got Pearce, they backed it up with the best front row forward in the game by signing David Klemmer.

The way his game has matured, Pearce can take the Knights to a premiership.

9. Ash Taylor ($1 million)

When Taylor stamped himself as the best young gun playmaker in 2017, this deal seemed like smart business.

Instead it’s an example of how paying big money for young players can go pear-shaped. Signed until the end of 2021, Taylor is very much a work in progress.

To date, he’s failed to deliver for the Titans.

10. Jason Taumololo ($950,000)

Only two years into a 10-season deal, Taumololo’s value to the Cowboys is unchallenged.

Can tear rival sides apart virtually single-handedly with late footwork, power and an ability to offload through the middle of the field.

Does the deal become a risk towards the back end of his career?

Right now, Taumololo is 26. How will the Tongan international be going by the year 2027? There’s a lot or risk involved given the position Taumololo plays.

Ben Hunt, Anthony Milford, Michael Morgan, David Klemmer, Andrew Fifita, James Maloney and Jack Bird are all among the NRL’s next-best paid players under the $1 million mark for the 2019 season.
 

OldPanther

Coach
Messages
13,404
https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nr...d/news-story/3cbef27a7670781cea408d48f5881e43

Who would you pay a million bucks to if you were an NRL club?
Foxsports.com.au can reveal the 10 richest contracts currently running in the game, who’s on them and for how much.

Some may be considered bargain buys, while one looks more like bad roster management.

Here’s the NRL’s top-10 rich list for season 2019.

1. Daly Cherry-Evans ($1.3 million)

Gun player but this deal has got funnel web spiders all over it.

Not only is DCE earning $1.3 million this season, every time the salary cap goes up, the Manly skipper’s deal goes up with it!



Crunch the numbers and the DCE deal works out as 16.5 per cent of the Sea Eagles salary cap every season until 2023.

Talk to any club powerbroker and they all say the same thing. Madness.

2. Cameron Smith ($1.1 million)

Worth every cent. You name it, Smith has won it.

Good judges reason the Storm skipper is going as good now as ever.

In terms of his playing contract, the Smith deal is structured far smarter than DCE’s.

There’s around $800,000 in the Storm salary cap. Then there’s an extra $300,000 as a marquee player.

3. Roger Tuivasa-Sheck ($1.1 million)

Amid interest from the All Blacks, RTS struck a smart four-year deal to be the face of the Warriors until the end of 2022.

One of the best fullbacks in the game, the Kiwi speedster is a gun but there’s an argument given where the Warriors are currently sitting on the ladder, their salary cap management leaves a little to be desired.

4. Cooper Cronk ($1.05 million)

Ask the Roosters and recruiting Cronk was one of the most important signatures in the history of the club.

A two-year deal and a premiership in the first season. Impossible to argue.

Just look at the way Luke Keary has developed into one of the NRL’s best playmakers and there’s all the evidence needed about Cronk’s influence.

5. Sam Burgess ($1 million)

The best forward in the game. A model of consistency, Burgess is more likely to miss games through suspension than injury.

The forward leader who most club powerbrokers nominate as the player they would sign given an open cheque book and told to build a club.

6. Kieran Foran ($1 million)

Poor management by the Bulldogs’ previous administration.

Foran has been a very good player for a long time but his body was broken when Canterbury raced out and rolled out the red carpet.

Aside from the Warriors, there were no other NRL clubs in the bidding war.

Has missed large parts of the past two seasons through injuries and the real doozy is his deal goes up to $1.2 million next year. Value for money? No.

7. James Tedesco ($1 million)

Another smart play by the Sydney Roosters. Nick Politis has a reputation for being the sharpest negotiator in the business.

Landing the signature of Teddy is further proof.

The NSW and Australian fullback has continued to evolve his game since arriving at the Sydney Roosters and has thrived under the coaching of Trent Robinson.

8. Mitchell Pearce ($1 million)

The form halfback of the competition who has turned Newcastle into a genuine premiership contender.

Great signing given after the Knights got Pearce, they backed it up with the best front row forward in the game by signing David Klemmer.

The way his game has matured, Pearce can take the Knights to a premiership.

9. Ash Taylor ($1 million)

When Taylor stamped himself as the best young gun playmaker in 2017, this deal seemed like smart business.

Instead it’s an example of how paying big money for young players can go pear-shaped. Signed until the end of 2021, Taylor is very much a work in progress.

To date, he’s failed to deliver for the Titans.

10. Jason Taumololo ($950,000)

Only two years into a 10-season deal, Taumololo’s value to the Cowboys is unchallenged.

Can tear rival sides apart virtually single-handedly with late footwork, power and an ability to offload through the middle of the field.

Does the deal become a risk towards the back end of his career?

Right now, Taumololo is 26. How will the Tongan international be going by the year 2027? There’s a lot or risk involved given the position Taumololo plays.

Ben Hunt, Anthony Milford, Michael Morgan, David Klemmer, Andrew Fifita, James Maloney and Jack Bird are all among the NRL’s next-best paid players under the $1 million mark for the 2019 season.

If it's to be believed we only have Maloney in that list.
 
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