14 Team SL and Merged Championship?

[Taking The Two]

Beginning to think a French/Euro league, backed by the NRL and featuring ex-SL teams might be the way to go.

An NRL ran competition in the UK & France was always the way to go. Working with the only other professional rugby league competition and one in which has massive revenues and profits, whilst aligning more closely, just makes sense to me.

That said, self interest runs rugby league here. We bought IMG in, pay six figures to them each year and pretty much as soon as they came in and put forward their suggestions, we did the complete opposite of what they suggested following a time consuming review. Sadly, there is no way we would let V’landys or anyone in the NRL come in and tell the clubs what they should do or how they should do things. I do think the NRL interest has led to the fast track return of Wood and this change of structure. It’s damage limitation for many here. You’ve got Leigh’s Derek Beaumont, who must be realistic about Leigh’s chances in a 10 team Super League, and Saints’ Eamonn McManus, who is now feeling the pinch following the pandemic and the need now to pay back government loans, behind the return of Wood, a man that McManus was very vocal about returning. When you then throw in the likes of Cas, Huddersfield, Wakefield, Salford etc, you’ll have clubs who are desperate to keep the status quo and their central funding each year, whilst hopefully removing Catalans, because they don’t bring away fans who buy pies and beer.

My hope is that this is a house of cards and the Wigan’s, two Hull’s and Catalans’ are the driving force behind a breakaway with the NRL. If one of the Hull’s want a 10 team comp (hopefully under the NRL), the other side aren’t going to vote to lose their biggest income generating fixture(s) of the year, Wigan were behind the Super League getting on the Vegas card and if they’re all for a breakaway, if you’re St Helens, you’re going to need to follow and if those two go, Warrington follow. Catalans will vote for an NRL breakaway and suddenly you have 6 teams pulling away and once the big hitters go, it’s Leeds, Wakefield, Toulouse, London and pretty much everyone else desperate to follow.

 

[Gobsmacked]

An NRL ran competition in the UK & France was always the way to go. Working with the only other professional rugby league competition and one in which has massive revenues and profits, whilst aligning more closely, just makes sense to me.

That said, self interest runs rugby league here. We bought IMG in, pay six figures to them each year and pretty much as soon as they came in and put forward their suggestions, we did the complete opposite of what they suggested following a time consuming review. Sadly, there is no way we would let V’landys or anyone in the NRL come in and tell the clubs what they should do or how they should do things. I do think the NRL interest has led to the fast track return of Wood and this change of structure. It’s damage limitation for many here. You’ve got Leigh’s Derek Beaumont, who must be realistic about Leigh’s chances in a 10 team Super League, and Saints’ Eamonn McManus, who is now feeling the pinch following the pandemic and the need now to pay back government loans, behind the return of Wood, a man that McManus was very vocal about returning. When you then throw in the likes of Cas, Huddersfield, Wakefield, Salford etc, you’ll have clubs who are desperate to keep the status quo and their central funding each year, whilst hopefully removing Catalans, because they don’t bring away fans who buy pies and beer.

My hope is that this is a house of cards and the Wigan’s, two Hull’s and Catalans’ are the driving force behind a breakaway with the NRL. If one of the Hull’s want a 10 team comp (hopefully under the NRL), the other side aren’t going to vote to lose their biggest income generating fixture(s) of the year, Wigan were behind the Super League getting on the Vegas card and if they’re all for a breakaway, if you’re St Helens, you’re going to need to follow and if those two go, Warrington follow. Catalans will vote for an NRL breakaway and suddenly you have 6 teams pulling away and once the big hitters go, it’s Leeds, Wakefield, Toulouse, London and pretty much everyone else desperate to follow.

I wonder if the NRL will be holding out until after the 2026 world cup..

 

[bad boy bubby]

I wonder if the NRL will be holding out until after the 2026 world cup..

Maybe sooner than that?
The Kangaroos tour has brought in a great deal of interest, something that has been lost for a very long time.
Might the NRL use the Kangaroos as a bargaining tool for future deals?

 

[Taking The Two]

And the morons want a 9’s tournament now. We had a 9’s World Cup when Nigel Wood was in charge of International RL. It was unsuccessful. The NRL abandoned the 9’s in 2020. Aside from women’s RL in England, nobody plays 9’s and there is no appetite for 9’s. Of course, 9’s is the plan to replace Magic Weekend.

 

[BODISGOD]

So, two quite amazing pieces of news out of Super League today.

Firstly, Hull FC, Hull KR and Wigan didn’t vote yes on this because they felt that Nigel Wood didn’t provide enough of the necessary documentation to support the view that 14 teams was the way to go. Amazing. Literally unbelievable that you’re going into selling your plan without the necessary documentation to support your argument. Even more astounding is that EIGHT of the old fools still voted yes despite barely having enough information to make a decision.

Secondly, so Sky are our broadcasters. They haven’t been consulted on the jump from 12 to 14 teams, that comes with a £500,000 per year cost to broadcast the extra games. If that’s not a breach of contract, nothing is. It’s such a dangerous position that Wood and his cronies have put the sport in.

Sky would simply not broadcast the extra game, it isn't that big a deal.

 

[Taking The Two]

Sky would simply not broadcast the extra game, it isn't that big a deal.

When the whole thing about the existing deal is showing every game live, it is indeed a big thing. It’s also been done without any communication with Sky and as such, sank the reputation and working relationship like one of Nigel Wood’s morning turds.

 

[BODISGOD]

Beginning to think a French/Euro league, backed by the NRL and featuring ex-SL teams might be the way to go.

An NRL ran competition in the UK & France was always the way to go. Working with the only other professional rugby league competition and one in which has massive revenues and profits, whilst aligning more closely, just makes sense to me.

Why? The NRL know how to run an Australian competition, not a UK/French one.

If you look through the Super League War, the NRL really remains a heartlands competition. Outside of Melbourne, expansion has basically been where Rugby League already has an established footprint i.e. low hanging fruit. Melbourne were backed by one of the two major media partners over the last 30 years.

The NRL are about to make their first really challenging expansion outside of the core for decades in the form of Perth. They are going to have their hands full with that and expose themselves to financial risk. For all the talk of money, it isn't endless for the NRL. PNG has other backers but presents other issues. The NRL already are hosting a Vegas round annually. On what planet can they fund 4 French clubs as suggested here or have the bandwidth to do anything with Super League?

What can the NRL actually add? As I said, they are a competition that has does an amazing job in terms of the Australian media and commercial market. The Australian broadcast market is completely different to the UK. Peter V'Landys style might work in Sydney, but what makes you think it would make any impression with London media and commercial partners?

The core problem with UK rugby league in terms of shrinking tv revenue is fairly intractable currently. The biggest thing is to get more money spinning International games and I do not see how any merger or co-ownership solves a problem that really comes down to the relationship between the RLPA and the NRL. Transformative money won't come from the NRL because the NRL have their own mouths to feed and have more pressing matters to attend to.

I personally thought the mooted "investment" would always fall apart once actual due diligence was done and NRL clubs saw what was involved. All it is is Phil Gould suggesting it and a chance for corporate heads to expand their kingdom.

 

[BODISGOD]

When the whole thing about the existing deal is showing every game live, it is indeed a big thing. It’s also been done without any communication with Sky and as such, sank the reputation and working relationship like one of Nigel Wood’s morning turds.

Meh it won't really make a difference. Sky won't lose any subs because of it. Sky can't gatekeep a competition from expanding. There would be details on the number of games to be shown and Sky would have protected themselves from downsize risk first and foremost.

 

[Taking The Two]

Why? The NRL know how to run an Australian competition, not a UK/French one.

If you look through the Super League War, the NRL really remains a heartlands competition. Outside of Melbourne, expansion has basically been where Rugby League already has an established footprint i.e. low hanging fruit. Melbourne were backed by one of the two major media partners over the last 30 years.

The NRL are about to make their first really challenging expansion outside of the core for decades in the form of Perth. They are going to have their hands full with that and expose themselves to financial risk. For all the talk of money, it isn't endless for the NRL. PNG has other backers but presents other issues. The NRL already are hosting a Vegas round annually. On what planet can they fund 4 French clubs as suggested here or have the bandwidth to do anything with Super League?

What can the NRL actually add? As I said, they are a competition that has does an amazing job in terms of the Australian media and commercial market. The Australian broadcast market is completely different to the UK. Peter V'Landys style might work in Sydney, but what makes you think it would make any impression with London media and commercial partners?

The core problem with UK rugby league in terms of shrinking tv revenue is fairly intractable currently. The biggest thing is to get more money spinning International games and I do not see how any merger or co-ownership solves a problem that really comes down to the relationship between the RLPA and the NRL. Transformative money won't come from the NRL because the NRL have their own mouths to feed and have more pressing matters to attend to.

I personally thought the mooted "investment" would always fall apart once actual due diligence was done and NRL clubs saw what was involved. All it is is Phil Gould suggesting it and a chance for corporate heads to expand their kingdom.

The NRL know how to run a business and a competition. It’s naive and daft to suggest that they’d just do the same thing that they’ve done in Australia in the UK and wouldn’t invest in the right people to lead the sport here.

A working relationship with NRL, alignment or fixture lists, investment in various areas and an international calendar leads to such higher levels of professionalism and revenue streams.

Meh it won't really make a difference. Sky won't lose any subs because of it. Sky can't gatekeep a competition from expanding. There would be details on the number of games to be shown and Sky would have protected themselves from downsize risk first and foremost.

It’ll make a difference if Sky don’t take part in the next TV negotiations and that basically ends professional rugby league in the UK unless a DAZN type come in with a massive offer, which is unlikely

 

[Foreign Legion]

Super League expansion: Owner suggests long-term move to 16 teams

Wakefield Trinity owner Matt Ellis has revealed why he backed the move to expand Super League to 14: and has even suggested he would increase it to 16.

www.loverugbyleague.com

 

[bad boy bubby]

It’ll make a difference if Sky don’t take part in the next TV negotiations and that basically ends professional rugby league in the UK unless a DAZN type come in with a massive offer, which is unlikely

I have been wondering if the NRL were going to try and use their DAZN negotiations to include Super League, if they (NRL) were going to be playing a part in the future of SL

 

[BODISGOD]

The NRL know how to run a business and a competition. It’s naive and daft to suggest that they’d just do the same thing that they’ve done in Australia in the UK and wouldn’t invest in the right people to lead the sport here.

A working relationship with NRL, alignment or fixture lists, investment in various areas and an international calendar leads to such higher levels of professionalism and revenue streams.





It’ll make a difference if Sky don’t take part in the next TV negotiations and that basically ends professional rugby league in the UK unless a DAZN type come in with a massive offer, which is unlikely

The overlaps are actually minimal outside the actual game. The broadcast markets are totally different. The commercials are different (Sydney and Brisbane centric comps and associated corporate monies vs. largely northern England). The funding of facilities is largely different. The P&Ls of individual clubs are different. Both have salary caps….they aren’t going to align those, so what’s the point?

The NRL would be more of an equity partner, a serious U.K. focused CEO is needed and respectfully, the current leadership ain’t it.

In terms of the commercials of any deal, yes great for SL to get some money in the short term but how does it work? Will the NRL be skimming off commercial revenues like a PE fund? Is there really much of a return for them if say Super League commercials were valued at £200m? Thats a sizeable enterprise value and not an insignificant amount of money if you are taking 33% in it. The NRL are already committing to sizeable expansion risks but at least there’s a logical payback with another Australian tv timeslot that they can value.

Again the fundamental problem with the international calendar has been player availability. That’s a localised issue for the NRL, one that uniting with Super League can’t be helped. They aren’t reducing the NRL season for obvious reasons.

Sky won’t check out because of this, even if I am totally uninspired by the return of Nigel Wood here.

 

[Taking The Two]

Super League expansion: Owner suggests long-term move to 16 teams

Wakefield Trinity owner Matt Ellis has revealed why he backed the move to expand Super League to 14: and has even suggested he would increase it to 16.

www.loverugbyleague.com

We should have 16 teams. We should have 14 but at a time where Super League is of sufficient standard and so are the prospective clubs. It was announced that SL would expand to have more sides in it when there were more than 12 clubs rated an A by the IMG rankings. I do think those rankings needed tweaking but they weren’t a disaster. Instead, we’ve opted to pay IMG six figures a year to fast track teams into the comp anyway. That’s the bug bear. More so when it looks like certain clubs may be benefitting over others somewhat unfairly.

I don’t agree with 14 now. I think 2027 was probably the time to be at least admitting Team 13. Another couple of years of growth of Toulouse and York and London under a different footing with the proposed takeover and you have some strong candidates. The thing is as well, we might not have needed these to come in as 13 and 14 and kept things at 12 had Salford, Cas and Huddersfield to name a few have been circling the shitter in the way they are now. God, one of those clubs would be primed to take over from Salford this winter, for example, the other in 2027 and maybe even another side.

It’s all just rushed and premature.

 

[Perth Red]

For all the doom and gloom a SL without Salford and with Toulouse, York and Bradford is an exciting prospect. Great to see wakefield owner suggest we could build on that and the obvious team 15 would be London with team 16 open to any club that has grown itself and is deserving of a place, or a left fielder if some big backer comes along for another French club or a toronto scenario.

the only thing holding the English game back is a decent tv deal. I could see that is where the nrl could be helpful in getting a global rugby league deal with dazn. $450mill for nrl + $100mill for SL, chuck in French rugby league and digicel cup as well as internationals and you’ve got a very solid rugby league channel for dazn across multiple countries.
Get that and stick with the img system of forcing clubs to improve off the field and the future isn’t as dire as many are making out.

 

[Taking The Two]

Exciting for who? On paper, a league with two French teams (I have my doubts on that), York (good city, growing club, good for beers in the city) and Bradford or London looks promising. That said, the reality is very different for the matchgoing fan.

We have clubs trying to put together a squad at very short notice. That has previously led to low quality players moving between the same clubs. Clubs from relegated teams would bounce into the newly promoted sides under that structure, such as James Cunningham, who played for Toulouse, London and Toronto, who were all bottom feeders. The jump from 84 quota players up to a possible 140 is going to be a double edged sword. Not all clubs have said they’ll utilise all ten spots but even so, we’ll see a few gems from the lower grades in Australia but equally, we’ll get some shite come over too. Given we are promoting sides at short notice, I get why we’ve jumped up massively the quota spots but I do believe it is going to benefit the sides that put the least into their pathways more than the likes of Wigan, Saints and Leeds. There’s a real need for international tournaments and international games in England but blocking pathways to the first team by having so many quota players is going to be one to be watched over the years. Maybe the extension of the quota players should have been for the promoted sides only for a certain period (3 years) so they can build a squad slower.

Two French teams is good for the travel aspect, a week schmoozing around France and Spain watching Catalans is brilliant and Toulouse will be too but the prospect of standing on an open terrace at Odsal in February in driving rain is enough to get you questioning your life choices and wondering how on earth that stadium hasn’t been condemned. That before wondering whether you’re even in the right town when you go to Huddersfield as it’s a ghost town around the ground on matchday, more open terraces and a “stadium” that hasn’t been modern since Adolf was trying to flatten the country and playing beneath a motorway in a weird Lego stadium at Salford (providing they make it). All of that before considering how poor the matchday experience at so many clubs is (my club included). It’s not exactly selling appetising.

I think the game’s themselves are at risk, too. The quality of Super League isn’t particularly high across the board. Of course we do get some really tight games and a small handful of sides play at a real high intensity when put up against each other but it’s pretty depressing having ‘cannon fodder’, for want of a better word. You have to be a diehard fan of the club or an absolute rugby league purist to watch Salford this year, last year London and Hull FC lost 48 of 54 possible games, the year before Wakefield didn’t win a game for an eternity and the year before that Toulouse were realistically dead and buried by about May. There’s a real quality drop off as it is, without adding in more sides and I’m not sure it’s going to yield greater quality by flooding the comp with more sides. Looking back at the last time we did 14 in SL, you needed to win less than half your games to make the playoffs, so 13 wins and you were in. Jeopardy has left the building and so has interest, in all honesty. As for those outside of the fold, I’m not sure how interest is maintained throughout the whole year as attendances dropped off a cliff when we went with 14 before for those who were miles from the playoffs. Why bother going to Bradford away when you know your club will, most likely, win and do it comfortably? Why bother going anywhere when you can just wait to the end of the season for the playoffs, the only games that do matter?

The problem we have is the reality is very different to what the paper looks like. We aren’t at a point where we can facilitate 14, we don’t have a suitable structure either and we have jumped far too quickly on this.

 

[Perth Red]

I’m expecting next season will be a bit of a bludger but playing the long game, a 14 team comp with those clubs in it is a big step forward, hopefully.
the proof of the pudding will be. In the eating but fIngres crossed the the clubs coming in are successful and add to the value and vibrancy of SL.
listened to the York owner interview today, very impressive. He sounds confident they will be in SL next season and stated he has planned for no grant in 2026.
york v hfc and York v hkr is going To fill the stadium.

 

[NRLMad]

The nrl, lower grades have plenty of talent, to not only cover 2 new teams in the nrl but more. Regionally we have taken Perth which in itself has 2.5m people. This compares it to any larger side with history. Single state teams just do well eventually. Same goes for png with 10m people. So I expect to see plenty of players. Not just that but the salary cap is increasing so we will attract more players. The nrl is a behemoth here. We have opportunity to grow in most states and nz

 

[Taking The Two]

How can you genuinely watch the first half of Salford v Hull KR and think “yeah, we need more teams in Super League”?

 

[Perth Red]

How can you genuinely watch the first half of Salford v Hull KR and think “yeah, we need more teams in Super League”?

You’re picking an outlier to argue a case. What’s happened to Salford is horrible for the game and area, shame for the club but you can’t judge the enjoyment of the rest of the comp on one basket case club. This years comp has largely been highly competitive with clubs taking points off each other regularly.arguably the gf is more open than for many a year with a number of clubs showing they are contenders.

 

[Taking The Two]

You’re picking an outlier to argue a case. What’s happened to Salford is horrible for the game and area, shame for the club but you can’t judge the enjoyment of the rest of the comp on one basket case club. This years comp has largely been highly competitive with clubs taking points off each other regularly.arguably the gf is more open than for many a year with a number of clubs showing they are contenders.

No I’m not. The bottom of Super League has had clubs that are some way off the pace of the middling teams (let alone the decent sides) for years.

Part-time London and Hull in 2023, Wakefield in 2022, Toulouse in 2021, Toronto in 2020, London in 2019, Widnes in 2018, it’s an extensive list of clubs that have been in Super League and have been some way off the pace of most sides. Chucking in two/three more to push the rubbish we do have slightly up is like trying to put out a fire by chucking lighter fluid on top.

The literal last thing we need is more clubs. The vast majority of RL fans in the UK, the bodies on the ground, the people who turn out week in, week out, think this. You are very much in the minority here.