OT: Current Affairs and Politics

[Ruby Roundhouse]

No, I'm for both Hamas and Israel to progress the peace deal beyond what has been agreed to.

As far as I'm aware Hamas are yet to agree to disarm, or at least on a timetable for disarmament, and at this stage to do so and subject themselves to the goodwill of the Israeli state would seem a little foolish.

The "peace deal" as it stands right now is little more than a start, There's a shit load to deal with yet if it's going to deliver a meaningful peace.

Yes, they are supposed to be an interim 'police force' but executing people in the street is hardly the work of the police. Unless you're a white cop killing black people in america.

The agreed upon 'ceasefire' states israel will withdraw to an agreed upon line, they have done that. Why would they let people behind their lines when hamas were in plain clothing?

 

[Matty Bhoy]

Yes, they are supposed to be an interim 'police force' but executing people in the street is hardly the work of the police. Unless you're a white cop killing black people in america.

The agreed upon 'ceasefire' states israel will withdraw to an agreed upon line, they have done that. Why would they let people behind their lines when hamas were in plain clothing?

To be honest, it’s something you see post conflict throughout history on a regular basis. It happened to collaborators after WW2, happened in the Ireland during the War of Independence and later the Troubles and of course after the American withdrawal of Saigon and no doubt Afghan too. It’s not pretty but it’s not unpredictable either.

 

[Bandwagon]

You've also got other militia groups, some armed by the Israelis, some outright criminals, Hamas disarms now and these other merkins take over, they might be ok, they might be shitmerkins, who knows.

The whole joint could turn to anarchy, in the absence of some authority, and at this point in time the only ones with any clue about governing, as they've been doing it for years, is Hamas.

So for now, unless there's a peace keeping force that is under the Arabic nations or the UN's control, Hamas is all there is.

 

[Ruby Roundhouse]

You've also got other militia groups, some armed by the Israelis, some outright criminals, Hamas disarms now and these other merkins take over, they might be ok, they might be shitmerkins, who knows.

The whole joint could turn to anarchy, in the absence of some authority, and at this point in time the only ones with any clue about governing, as they've been doing it for years, is Hamas.

So for now, unless there's a peace keeping force that is under the Arabic nations or the UN's control, Hamas is all there is.

yes this was agreed upon that they would do that in the interim

funny thing about using proxies..

 

[Bandwagon]

yes this was agreed upon that they would do that in the interim

What was agreed upon?

 

[Ruby Roundhouse]

What was agreed upon?

policing duties "for a period of time"

 

[Bandwagon]

policing duties "for a period of time"

I don't think that's the case as yet. There's two entirely separate things at play here, there is the proposed deal that Trump and Netanyahu have presented as the "20 point plan"...

Full text: Trump’s 20-point ‘comprehensive plan to end the Gaza conflict’

All hostages, living and dead, must be returned within 72 hours; Strip will be demilitarized, governed by transitional 'technocratic' committee; 'Israel will not occupy or annex Gaza'

www.timesofisrael.com

..........which is really just an outline or a set of guiding principles for an agreement, but it's important to note that this is what's been agreed to between Netanyahu and Trump, Not Israel and Hamas.

So as near as I can find, this is what has been agreed to as of now between Israel and Hamas.

Full text of Oct. 9 Israel-Hamas deal on Trump’s plan for ‘comprehensive end’ to Gaza war

Agreement says Hamas must release all living hostages, and all dead hostages it can, and 'share all the information it obtained' on remaining dead hostages, within 72 hours of Israeli withdrawal

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[Ruby Roundhouse]

I don't think that's the case as yet. There's two entirely separate things at play here, there is the proposed deal that Trump and Netanyahu have presented as the "20 point plan"...

Full text: Trump’s 20-point ‘comprehensive plan to end the Gaza conflict’

All hostages, living and dead, must be returned within 72 hours; Strip will be demilitarized, governed by transitional 'technocratic' committee; 'Israel will not occupy or annex Gaza'

www.timesofisrael.com

..........which is really just an outline or a set of guiding principles for an agreement, but it's important to note that this is what's been agreed to between Netanyahu and Trump, Not Israel and Hamas.

So as near as I can find, this is what has been agreed to as of now between Israel and Hamas.

Full text of Oct. 9 Israel-Hamas deal on Trump’s plan for ‘comprehensive end’ to Gaza war

Agreement says Hamas must release all living hostages, and all dead hostages it can, and 'share all the information it obtained' on remaining dead hostages, within 72 hours of Israeli withdrawal

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[Bandwagon]

Trump says...............sorry but what trump says is hardly a reliable fact. I've shown you the signed agreement, from a source that is pro-Israeli, there's a photo of the signed document, that is what has been officially agreed so far. Everything else is just what it is.

Clearly though that document implies that Hamas will control the area inside the lines of withdrawal, as it tasks Hamas with finding and delivering the bodies of the dead hostages, something they would be incapable of doing without control, as we know Hamas were not the only merkins that took and held hostages, so not all hostages were under their direct control, that will complicate the delivery.

What's also interesting there is that whilst there are some very clear time-frames on delivery of the bodies that Hamas knows about, it's not so with all, so it's implied within the agreement that there may or will be difficulty in locating all the bodies, and that is allowed for. That being the case, Israel forcibly reducing aid into Gaza based upon the slowness of retrieving the dead breaching the agreement, is not exactly kosher.

 

[Ruby Roundhouse]

Trump says...............sorry but what trump says is hardly a reliable fact. I've shown you the signed agreement, from a source that is pro-Israeli, there's a photo of the signed document, that is what has been officially agreed so far. Everything else is just what it is.

Clearly though that document implies that Hamas will control the area inside the lines of withdrawal, as it tasks Hamas with finding and delivering the bodies of the dead hostages, something they would be incapable of doing without control, as we know Hamas were not the only merkins that took and held hostages, so not all hostages were under their direct control, that will complicate the delivery.

What's also interesting there is that whilst there are some very clear time-frames on delivery of the bodies that Hamas knows about, it's not so with all, so it's implied within the agreement that there may or will be difficulty in locating all the bodies, and that is allowed for. That being the case, Israel forcibly reducing aid into Gaza based upon the slowness of retrieving the dead breaching the agreement, is not exactly kosher.

I agree in spirit, but he confirmed it as a temp measure, as they are being flexible for stability.

Denial of aid is not good under any circumstance, as is hamas not disarming.

 

[Bandwagon]

I agree in spirit, but he confirmed it as a temp measure, as they are being flexible for stability.

Denial of aid is not good under any circumstance, as is hamas not disarming.

Yeah, they "agreed" because what else is there? It might not be that great an option, but it's them or random militias taking power in the vacuum.

As for them disarming, again that's still to be negotiated, and there would need to be some form of interim peacekeeping force ready to take over that is not affiliated with either the US or Israel, preferably UN backed or at least Arab League backed

 

[85 Baby]

You've also got other militia groups, some armed by the Israelis, some outright criminals, Hamas disarms now and these other merkins take over, they might be ok, they might be shitmerkins, who knows.

The whole joint could turn to anarchy, in the absence of some authority, and at this point in time the only ones with any clue about governing, as they've been doing it for years, is Hamas.

You’d think people would’ve learned from that documentary about the risks of sudden removal of strong police deterrent

 

[Bandwagon]

You’d think people would’ve learned from that documentary about the risks of sudden removal of strong police deterrent

View attachment 107145

Clearly merkins haven't been paying attention.

 

[Ruby Roundhouse]

 

[Gary Gutful]

You’d think people would’ve learned from that documentary about the risks of sudden removal of strong police deterrent

View attachment 107145

No-one could understand what Stallone was mumbling.

 

[Matty Bhoy]

I agree in spirit, but he confirmed it as a temp measure, as they are being flexible for stability.

Denial of aid is not good under any circumstance, as is hamas not disarming.

Hamas are quite literally the only thing stopping the completion of ethnic cleansing in Gaza. I certainly don’t agree with plenty they do, but they are quite literally the resistance.

There’s going to have to be the establishment of a Palestinian Armed Forces or at the very least a massive commitment from the United Nations before Hamas disarm.

 

[Ruby Roundhouse]

Hamas are quite literally the only thing stopping the completion of ethnic cleansing in Gaza. I certainly don’t agree with plenty they do, but they are quite literally the resistance.

There’s going to have to be the establishment of a Palestinian Armed Forces or at the very least a massive commitment from the United Nations before Hamas disarm.

The only thing stopping gaza from being levelled, is the orange turd, because he wants his peace prize

hamas didn't protect palestinians, they hid in their tunnels

 

[Matty Bhoy]

The only thing stopping gaza from being levelled, is the orange turd, because he wants his peace prize

hamas didn't protect palestinians, they hid in their tunnels

I’d stop watching wherever it is you get your news tbh.

Gaza is levelled and the Orange turd and everyone else, with a few exceptions such as Ireland and South Africa, sat back and watched it happen.

Hamas did anything but hide in their tunnels. Those Merkava tanks don’t tend to explode by themselves. There’s plenty of bodycam footage from the past two years.

 

[Ruby Roundhouse]

I’d stop watching wherever it is you get your news tbh.

Gaza is levelled and the Orange turd and everyone else, with a few exceptions such as Ireland and South Africa, sat back and watched it happen.

Hamas did anything but hide in their tunnels. Those Merkava tanks don’t tend to explode by themselves. There’s plenty of bodycam footage from the past two years.

How'd that work out for them?

 

[Matty Bhoy]

How'd that work out for them?

I’m genuinely not sure what you’re attempting to argue here.

Considering they were up against a Nuclear powerhouse with probably the best intelligence agency in the world, supported by the Yanks, Brits etc, you could argue they went as well as they could’ve hoped.

They’re still there.