The Future of the Pacific Championships

[England87]

I think the future of the tournement should be every four years with a European Championship being run at the same time. With the tournaments alligned you can then have a 8 year cycle of test football where you know exactly who is playing who years in advance.

Year 1: World Cup

Year 2: Tour Year (Ashes or Baskerville or Bill Kelly Cup + Minor Tours)

Year 3: Pacific Championships / European Championships

Year 4: Tour Year (Ashes or Baskerville or Bill Kelly Cup + Minor Tours)

Year 5: World Cup

Year 6: Tour Year (Ashes or Baskerville or Bill Kelly Cup + Minor Tours)

Year 7: Pacific Championships / European Championships

Year 8: Tour Year (Ashes or Baskerville or Bill Kelly Cup + Minor Tours)


Pacific & European Championships would look something like this:


PACIFIC CHAMPIONSHIPS

A
AUSTRALIA
TONGA
FIJI

B
NEW ZEALAND
SAMOA
PAPUA NEW GUINEA


AUSTRALIA V TONGA - Western Sydney Stadium, Sydney
NEW ZEALAND V SAMOA - Eden Park, Auckland
FIJI V AUSTRALIA - National Stadium, Suva
PAPUA NEW GUINEA V NEW ZEALAND - PNG Football Stadium, Port Moresby
TONGA V FIJI* - Mt Smart Stadium, Auckland
SAMOA V PAPUA NEW GUINEA* - Mt Smart Stadium, Auckland
SEMI FINAL 1* - Lang Park, Brisbane
SEMI FINAL 2* - Lang Park, Brisbane
FINAL - Sydney Football Stadium


EUROPEAN CHAMPIONSHIPS

A
ENGLAND
FRANCE
WALES

ENGLAND V FRANCE - Halliwell Jones Stadium, Warrington
WALES V ENGLAND - Racecourse Ground, Wrexham
FRANCE V WALES - Stade Gilbert Brutus, Perpignan
FINAL - Headingley Stadium, Leeds

 

[Last Week]

Sounds great, very logical. Will never happen.

 

[England87]

hahahaha, so true

 

[Chins]

Origin needs to die and it would without the Islander boys but they'll milk it as long as they can. As long as it exists you can't really have mid year tests at all.

 

[wgd]

Stupid. So essentially, just scrap the Pacific Championships so the big 3 can tour each other? No other tour is profitable, so it would just be 2 out of Aus, NZ, England playing each year. Every other nation can get f**ked.

The only improvement I'd make on the current setup would be

- Australia and NZ take turns touring England every year, so we get a Samoa v Tonga game in the Pacific Cup every year.
- Get France involved in the Pacific Bowl tournament so there are no byes.

 

[England87]

Stupid. So essentially, just scrap the Pacific Championships so the big 3 can tour each other? No other tour is profitable, so it would just be 2 out of Aus, NZ, England playing each year. Every other nation can get f**ked.

The only improvement I'd make on the current setup would be

- Australia and NZ take turns touring England every year, so we get a Samoa v Tonga game in the Pacific Cup every year.
- Get France involved in the Pacific Bowl tournament so there are no byes.

"Minor tours" bud

Eg: If Australia and England are playing the ashes then New Zealand could have end of season internationals against Samoa and Tonga while France tour Fiji / PNG etc.

 

[jolly boys outing]

Origin needs to die and it would without the Islander boys but they'll milk it as long as they can. As long as it exists you can't really have mid year tests at all.

Will never happen but origin could just become an annual 1 off game.

 

[wgd]

"Minor tours" bud

Eg: If Australia and England are playing the ashes then New Zealand could have end of season internationals against Samoa and Tonga while France tour Fiji / PNG etc.

All minor tours are unprofitable, even England vs Tonga & Samoa lost money. Who is funding them?

Like I said, it would essentially just scrap the Pacific Championships and have Australia v NZ v England on repeat. Only 2 nations play each year.

 

[England87]

I dont see your logic. If their was no Pacific Championships this year I would still have Samoa and Tonga play tests against New Zealand, nothing changes except the Pac Champs becomes a more prestigous tournament when it is played. Nothing is stopping the Cookies play Fiji every year if you want.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

I dont see your logic. If their was no Pacific Championships this year I would still have Samoa and Tonga play tests against New Zealand, nothing changes except the Pac Champs becomes a more prestigous tournament when it is played. Nothing is stopping the Cookies play Fiji every year if you want.

No, we scrapped the 4 Nations just as it was growing legs. I don't want to see the annual Pacific Championships get scrapped just as this one is gaining traction. What we have works, stick with it. Pacific Championships plus one team on rotation touring England.

 

[siv]

I do agree that mid World Cup we should have a full strength 6 nation Pacific Cup eg year 3

And two teams should Tour England & France in between

Year2 is a 4 team Pacific Championships in between

Year 4 should be Pacific Qualifiers for the RLWC

We need to stop having 8 teams auto qualify for RLWC, just top 2

 

[Growthegame]

“Wgd” is correct on this one.

 

[Gherkin]

Fiji and PNG need more frequent games against Aus/NZ/Samoa/Tonga. Especially PNG with the nrl team coming in

 

[jolly boys outing]

Fiji and PNG need more frequent games against Aus/NZ/Samoa/Tonga. Especially PNG with the nrl team coming in

PNG need to tour france&england.

 

[adamkungl]

@England87 very close to my views. Playing these almost-great tournaments in the same year as England tours takes the shine slightly off both. Especially the Pacific Championship is being limited from its true potential by playing it in a 3 nation format with last years winners not present. Idk how a casual fan is meant to take the PC tournament seriously when last years winners can drop in and out as they please. Continuity and stakes are super important to building a property like this into something taken seriously by the wider sport viewing public. And 3 nations is a horrible tournament format and 4 is better in every possible way while not actually taking longer.

I've had a lot of calendar revision ideas over the years but this is the one I'm most positive about, with no major caveats or requirements for shorter club seasons or unrealistic amounts of test matches.
The main difference to OPs and typical suggestions is to avoid the problem of under-committing to either tours of tournaments by alternating over 8 years (cycle 1 is tour-tournament-tour, cycle 2 is tournament-tour-tournament) instead of locking into the same cycle every 4 years (every cycle is tour-tournament-tour). The other is to send PNG up to England for a tournament instead of relying on understrength Wales etc.

The calendar:

One year is a tournament year. The alternate is a tour year.
Every 2nd tour year is a Kangaroo tour to England as this has the most impact and commercial potential.
World Cups remaining every 4 years.
So the 8 year cycle is:

2027 - Touring year
England to NZ
Aus Pacific tour
Samoa v Tonga best of 3
PNG v France best of 3

2028 - Tournament year
Pacific - Australia, NZ, Samoa, Tonga
World - England, France, PNG, Fiji

2029 - Touring year
Australia to England
NZ v Samoa best of 3
PNG Pacific tour - Samoa, Tonga, Fiji, Cook Islands
Tonga v France best of 3

2030 - World Cup

2031 - Tournament year
Pacific - Australia, NZ, Samoa, Tonga
World - England, France, PNG, Fiji

2032 - Tour year
England to Australia
NZ v Tonga best of 3
Samoa world tour - Fiji, PNG, France, Wales
PNG v Tonga best of 3

2033 - Tournament year
Pacific - Australia, NZ, Samoa, Tonga
World - England, France, PNG, Fiji

2034 - World cup

2035 - Touring year
Australia to England
NZ Pacific tour - Samoa, Tonga, Fiji, Cook Islands
Tonga v Samoa best of 3
PNG v France best of 3

Tournament years:

- The main one is the Pacific Championships with Australia, New Zealand, Tonga, Samoa. There's no appetite for P&R, they ditched it as soon as NZ looked a bit suss. These games sell tickets in first world economies. PNG and Fiji unfortunately do not. This is also similar to the problem with a European cup - England can't sell tickets against Wales-tier opposition, and France is even in a wildly optimistic outlook 5-10 years away from being able to give England a fright. My solution, see the next point.

- The second tournament (I don't have a name for it) is to be hosted by England and/or France. Featuring England, France, and PNG as default inclusions due to them having professional leagues or clubs, and the 4th spot going to the next highest nation, in the current environment Fiji. This gives England some decent NRL-adjacent competition and gives PNG something more ambitious than an annual game vs Fiji or Cook Islands. PNG in particular will be a serious match in the next few years when their NRL team takes shape, and France are finally, hopefully in a position where they will have 2 Super League teams for the forseeable future.

A typical tournament year calendar for the Kangaroos should look like this:

Oct 12 - Aus v PNG warmup/PM13

Oct 19 - Aus v NZ standalone

Oct 26 - Pac Cup Game 1

Nov 2 - Pac Cup Game 2

Nov 9 - Pac Cup Game 3

Nov 16 - Pac Cup Final

Tour year:

- Australia and England would play a 3 match series with alternating hosts every 2 of 3 tour years, which comes to every 5 years in the above cycle.

- 1 of 3 tour years NZ would play England instead.

- The one of Australia and NZ who is not playing England might do a Pacific tour or World tour in that year.

- Others main focus would be their own bilateral best of 3, eg. Samoa v Tonga.

A typical outgoing tour year calendar for the Kangaroos should look like this (although I'd imagine the current administration would sadly drop the warmup tests)

Oct 12 - Aus v PNG warmup/PM13

Oct 19 - Aus v NZ standalone

Oct 26 - Aus travel week

Nov 2 - Aus v France test

Nov 9 - Aus v England game 1

Nov 16 - Aus v England game 2

Nov 23 - Aus v England game 3

 

[Manurewa_Marlins]

Like the idea of England and France hosting a tournament adjacent to the PCs. Just need some good branding around. Could even just call it the Rugby League Four Nations.

 

[adamkungl]

A strong PNG team would give England a bit of hassle I think. Especially if their NRL club lives up to hopes.

We simply have to find a way to give England viable opposition every year without damaging the Pacific Championship and I don't think there's a better way to do it. PNG and Fiji are treading water playing against Cook Islands unfortunately, and there isn't much appetite to having them play in the top comp not selling tickets in Australia.

With new pro clubs coming to Toulouse and Port Moresby there's never been a better time for France and PNG to take a big step up.

 

[jim_57]

Must say I would love to see Australia and NZ play a 3 game series against each other every so often. Likewise Tonga V Samoa.

What happens with the rest of the teams that year I’m not sure. Maybe England can host a 4N with France and a couple of invited teams like PNG & Fiji.


As for Pacific Championships they really need to make the top tier 4 teams, 2 games a week. Shouldn’t be having a bye each week for a 4 week tournament.

 

[Last Week]

A strong PNG team would give England a bit of hassle I think. Especially if their NRL club lives up to hopes.

We simply have to find a way to give England viable opposition every year without damaging the Pacific Championship and I don't think there's a better way to do it. PNG and Fiji are treading water playing against Cook Islands unfortunately, and there isn't much appetite to having them play in the top comp not selling tickets in Australia.

With new pro clubs coming to Toulouse and Port Moresby there's never been a better time for France and PNG to take a big step up.

I think above all, England need a commercially viable opponent.

They lost to Samoa in the WC semi final recently, and when Samoa toured, it didn't make bank.

England/GB haven't beaten Australia since 2006 and we're about to have one of the best tours in British history.

 

[adamkungl]

Give them Australia every few years. Just do it in a way that's organised so it doesn't detract from what the Pacific is building.
eg.
25 kangaroo tour to england
26 rlwc
27 england tour to nz
28 tournament year
29 kangaroo tour to england
30 rlwc
31 tournament
32 england tour to australia
33 tournament
34 rlwc
35 kangaroo tour to england
36 tournament
37 kiwi tour to england
38 rlwc
39 tournament
40 kangaroo tour to england
41 tournament
42 rlwc