New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

[Matiunz]

Henry & Robbie Paul, Gene Gnamu, Garry Freeman, Stacey Jones, Benji Marshall, Shaun Johnson, Kieran Foran, Jerome Hughes and Dylan Brown is a pretty handy list.

Only Stacey, Shaun and Ngamu were developed in NZ from that list… maaaybe the Paul bros at a stretch but they tragically went to UK very early on. Hohaia had potential but got shifted around too many positions.

 

[Matua]

Henry & Robbie Paul, Gene Gnamu, Garry Freeman, Stacey Jones, Benji Marshall, Shaun Johnson, Kieran Foran, Jerome Hughes and Dylan Brown is a pretty handy list.

To balance out that handy list over 40 years these are guys who have played in the halves for us in test matches v the Roos/Eng/Great Britain/Tonga: Tohu Harris, Pita Hiku, CNK, Nigel Vagana, Jerome Ropati, Vinnie Anderson.

We've often had to bring back Thomas Leuluai from the NH to fill gaps in our halves and the other important position of hooker.

We've played a combo of Tui Lolohea and Pita Hiku in the halves. We've played a combo of Ben Roberts and Jeremy Smith back in the day (unsurprisingly we shipped 50+ points).

We don't have the depth of Australia, despite what some posters are trying to imply in this thread. We are playing a retired 6 at halfback in this series and our 6 has barely played this year. Meanwhile the Roos selected the arguably the best 7 in the NRL this year as their last minute addition to the team and third halfback.

 

[jolly boys outing]

To balance out that handy list over 40 years these are guys who have played in the halves for us in test matches v the Roos/Eng/Great Britain/Tonga: Tohu Harris, Pita Hiku, CNK, Nigel Vagana, Jerome Ropati, Vinnie Anderson.

We've often had to bring back Thomas Leuluai from the NH to fill gaps in our halves and the other important position of hooker.

We've played a combo of Tui Lolohea and Pita Hiku in the halves. We've played a combo of Ben Roberts and Jeremy Smith back in the day (unsurprisingly we shipped 50+ points).

We don't have the depth of Australia, despite what some posters are trying to imply in this thread. We are playing a retired 6 at halfback in this series and our 6 has barely played this year. Meanwhile the Roos selected the arguably the best 7 in the NRL this year as their last minute addition to the team and third halfback.

Am I imagining David solomona playing stand off for the kiwis?

I also remember willy talau playing #6 for the kiwis in maybe an ANZAC test or tri/4nations game against Australia.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

To balance out that handy list over 40 years these are guys who have played in the halves for us in test matches v the Roos/Eng/Great Britain/Tonga: Tohu Harris, Pita Hiku, CNK, Nigel Vagana, Jerome Ropati, Vinnie Anderson.

We've often had to bring back Thomas Leuluai from the NH to fill gaps in our halves and the other important position of hooker.

We've played a combo of Tui Lolohea and Pita Hiku in the halves. We've played a combo of Ben Roberts and Jeremy Smith back in the day (unsurprisingly we shipped 50+ points).

We don't have the depth of Australia, despite what some posters are trying to imply in this thread. We are playing a retired 6 at halfback in this series and our 6 has barely played this year. Meanwhile the Roos selected the arguably the best 7 in the NRL this year as their last minute addition to the team and third halfback.

I mean, the claim was that NZ hasn't produced too many decent halves. I think only Australia can claim to have produced better halves than that Kiwi list, England do ok but not sure they match you guys in that department.

 

[Wb1234]

Clearly Tonga don't need any help, they made the PC final last year and we didn't, they clearly are at a decent level.

I have no problem with your comp - but it will devalue the strength of Origin more than letting dual qualified NZers play.

Maybe that’s a troll post maybe it’s genuine but this is what I’m getting at

Exploitation of Pacific Islands rugby has gone on long enough | Robert Kitson

Powerful documentary shows how protectionism and naked self-interest in high places continues to have a damaging effect on rugby in Fiji, Samoa and Tonga

www.theguardian.com

This is leagues chance to be different and take advantage of it

 

[Matiunz]

Maybe that’s a troll post maybe it’s genuine but this is what I’m getting at

Exploitation of Pacific Islands rugby has gone on long enough | Robert Kitson

Powerful documentary shows how protectionism and naked self-interest in high places continues to have a damaging effect on rugby in Fiji, Samoa and Tonga

www.theguardian.com

This is leagues chance to be different and take advantage of it

Sigh… this old chestnut yet again.
The narrative that NZ and Aus essentially rock up to the islands and yank fully developed players off the team bus and force them to play for them instead is laughable and borderline racism.
Not saying the odd questionable poach doesn’t happen but the vast majority are multi generational NZers/Aussies. Without the development and opportunities these players had in NZ/Aus systems and funded teams there would be no competitive nation union teams for Samoa or Tonga. Without the development Kiwis receive in the NRL the kiwis would also struggle
Seeing a Polynesian name and dismissing them as a NZer or Aussie is akin to seeing a Euro name and thinking players should be playing for a European national team. Another factor is many of these players are mixed heritage would you say Reece Walsh or Thurston should have played for the Kiwis under the same qualifications?

 

[Wb1234]

Sigh… this old chestnut yet again.
The narrative that NZ and Aus essentially rock up to the islands and yank fully developed players off the team bus and force them to play for them instead is laughable and borderline racism.
Not saying the odd questionable poach doesn’t happen but the vast majority are multi generational NZers/Aussies. Without the development and opportunities these players had in NZ/Aus systems and funded teams there would be no competitive nation union teams for Samoa or Tonga. Without the development Kiwis receive in the NRL the kiwis would also struggle
Seeing a Polynesian name and dismissing them as a NZer or Aussie is akin to seeing a Euro name and thinking players should be playing for a European national team. Another factor is many of these players are mixed heritage would you say Reece Walsh or Thurston should have played for the Kiwis under the same qualifications?

You’re missing the point

League is trying to fill a void which Union has created / ignored

Whether it’s 100 percent true or exaggerated that’s how they feel ?

And I read another article when Samoa and Tonga play tests at twickenham their national ru get nothing

If Union sees them as a resource to be milked then what the arl is doing is even better

And rather than you guys complaining see the bigger picture as to how it’s good for the sport in the pacific

Players can pick who they want to play for that’s their choice not dictated by where they were born necessarily

 

[Matua]

I mean, the claim was that NZ hasn't produced too many decent halves. I think only Australia can claim to have produced better halves than that Kiwi list, England do ok but not sure they match you guys in that department.

Even if we limit it to that narrow definition then we've only really produced in NZ in the Warriors NRL era - Jones and Johnson. Foran is Oz produced, Benji learnt the game in Oz, Brown and Hughes were developed in Oz.

The fact we have to run out forwards and outside backs in the halves kind of points to the fact we don't produce too many decent halves.

Am I imagining David solomona playing stand off for the kiwis?

I also remember willy talau playing #6 for the kiwis in maybe an ANZAC test or tri/4nations game against Australia.

Yeah, but it was French test tacked on to an England series with ESL players to fill out the team. Oh yeah, I forgot abut Talau. Others I missed were Fa'afili and Sione Faumuina.

 

[Matua]

Maybe that’s a troll post maybe it’s genuine but this is what I’m getting at

Exploitation of Pacific Islands rugby has gone on long enough | Robert Kitson

Powerful documentary shows how protectionism and naked self-interest in high places continues to have a damaging effect on rugby in Fiji, Samoa and Tonga

www.theguardian.com

This is leagues chance to be different and take advantage of it

You talk more rugby than the average rugby supporter on a rugby forum.

But, this is just chum in the water to this discussion, before even getting into the B/S of it which @Matiunz has mostly covered. The Thinker clear has little ability to think as he's overlooked the fact that majority of the PI players are of NZ (and Oz) origin, they have their own PI team within eligibility tied to the PI, and that PI teams will often play revenue gaining tests in NZ. Both in rugby and league the PI teams don't exist as competitive teams without NZers playing for them.

Anyway, this has nothing to do with Tonga's tier standing in league, you've now added another layer to your Origin eligibility reasoning hypocrisy.

 

[Matua]

Players can pick who they want to play for that’s their choice not dictated by where they were born necessarily

That's 100% the point we're making, let NZer's eligible for Origin play Origin and pick who they want play for, stop denying them the choice.

 

[Wb1234]

That's 100% the point we're making, let NZer's eligible for Origin play Origin and pick who they want play for, stop denying them the choice.

Nz don’t need help like Samoa and Tonga do

Stop being selfish and sort you’re game out

Warriors have been in the arl / nrl for 30 years and probably received 300 million over that time In funding

Nzrl and Auckland rl have assets and spent lots of money too

Samoa and Tonga have had basically nothing

If the Warriors had been focusing on their pathways you wouldn’t even be talking about this .. and you’re the one that said the warriors are hopeless in that regard

You literally made the point that soon the grandfather rule won’t apply to Samoan and Tongan Aussie players

My point in the previous post which you totally brushed is union has taken them for granted and this is an opportunity for the nrl

All because jt chose Tonga over nz and then the nrl saw an opportunity

I’ve watched origin for 30 years leave it alone

 

[Matua]

Nz don’t need help like Samoa and Tonga do

Stop being selfish and sort you’re game out

Warriors have been in the arl / nrl for 30 years and probably received 300 million over that time In funding

Nzrl and Auckland rl have assets and spent lots of money too

Samoa and Tonga have had basically nothing

If the Warriors had been focusing on their pathways you wouldn’t even be talking about this .. and you’re the one that said the warriors are hopeless in that regard

You literally made the point that soon the grandfather rule won’t apply to Samoan and Tongan Aussie players


All because jt chose Tonga over nz and then the nrl saw an opportunity

I’ve watched origin for 30 years leave it alone

NZ does need help, we have less the 30k players as mentioned above. And it's hardly like letting the odd NZ qualified origin player play for NZ is that big a deal.

The Warriors are merely a professional sports franchise based in NZ. Their role, which they are hopeless at, is to win premierships. They have one NZ eligible half in their first grade and reserve grade squads. They are filled with non NZ eligible players. Why on earth would I expect them to build pathways for NZers like the grifter CEO claims?

Stop being a hypocrite and apply your favouritism of some Polynesians to all Polynesians.

Why are you telling me to leave Origin alone, you Aussies changed the rules to allow your favoured Polynesians to play. You should tell your administrators to leave it alone.

My point in the previous post which you totally brushed is union has taken them for granted and this is an opportunity for the nrl

If you court the PIs only at the expense of NZ you're never going to meet the aims of this thread. The best Kiwis teams, Kiwis teams that can foot it with the Kangaroos regularly, is going to drive interest in NZ. Your stance just dilutes the Kiwis and weakens the ability of league to grow, especially once the current Warriors hype has peaked (which it may have done already).

 

[Wb1234]

NZ does need help, we have less the 30k players as mentioned above. And it's hardly like letting the odd NZ qualified origin player play for NZ is that big a deal.

The Warriors are merely a professional sports franchise based in NZ. Their role, which they are hopeless at, is to win premierships. They have one NZ eligible half in their first grade and reserve grade squads. They are filled with non NZ eligible players. Why on earth would I expect them to build pathways for NZers like the grifter CEO claims?

Stop being a hypocrite and apply your favouritism of some Polynesians to all Polynesians.

Why are you telling me to leave Origin alone, you Aussies changed the rules to allow your favoured Polynesians to play. You should tell your administrators to leave it alone.


If you court the PIs only at the expense of NZ you're never going to meet the aims of this thread. The best Kiwis teams, Kiwis teams that can foot it with the Kangaroos regularly, is going to drive interest in NZ. Your stance just dilutes the Kiwis and weakens the ability of league to grow, especially once the current Warriors hype has peaked (which it may have done already).

You want the rule changed so players who pick Samoa and Tonga now might pick nz

Those are exactly the wrong type of players to build a team around. Mercenaries and putting themselves first

In June they are passionate about nsw and qld

Then October it’s a pick between nz Samoa Tonga where their passions lie

I’m a huge advocate of nz2

That’s going to be a huge help for nz rl

And the warriors job is to develop elite kiwi nrl players

You’ve said yourself Aussie clubs do that better

You guys literally just won the nsw cup against the best nsw clubs then went and beat the best qld team in the final

You’re lower elite pathway clubs are doing well

Plus Stacey is probably an awful choice as coach and I loved him as a player

I’ve read a lot of what you’ve said about nz rl and the warriors and taken it on board it’s not like I don’t listen either

 

[Wb1234]

FYI the nz Maoris did two tours too nsw that saved the nswrl from going broke

And two of the founders of the nswrl were kiwis

Don’t paint me as biased against Maoris or nz Im the opposite

I’ve cheered for the kiwis v Australia for 20 years

Maybe not against Tonga or Samoa though there Im neutral lol

 

[jolly boys outing]

Even if we limit it to that narrow definition then we've only really produced in NZ in the Warriors NRL era - Jones and Johnson. Foran is Oz produced, Benji learnt the game in Oz, Brown and Hughes were developed in Oz.

The fact we have to run out forwards and outside backs in the halves kind of points to the fact we don't produce too many decent halves.


Yeah, but it was French test tacked on to an England series with ESL players to fill out the team. Oh yeah, I forgot abut Talau. Others I missed were Fa'afili and Sione Faumuina.

Fa’afili in The halves is crazy!!

can’t believe I missed 1 of my favourite players in the extremely under rated Clayton friend.

other names are Tony kemp, tea ropati? Dave Watson?

 

[Wb1234]

Fa’afili in The halves is crazy!!

can’t believe I missed 1 of my favourite players in the extremely rated Clayton friend.

other names are Tony kemp, tea ropati? Dave Watson?

Olsen filipanna

 

[jolly boys outing]

Olsen filipanna

The big O

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Even if we limit it to that narrow definition then we've only really produced in NZ in the Warriors NRL era - Jones and Johnson. Foran is Oz produced, Benji learnt the game in Oz, Brown and Hughes were developed in Oz.

The fact we have to run out forwards and outside backs in the halves kind of points to the fact we don't produce too many decent halves.


Yeah, but it was French test tacked on to an England series with ESL players to fill out the team. Oh yeah, I forgot abut Talau. Others I missed were Fa'afili and Sione Faumuina.

Ugh, it wasn't my definition, it was the claim of another poster. And who cares where they were developed? Most professional opportunities are in Australia, they are NZ players and you have always produced better halves than any nation other than Australia.

 

[Matua]

You want the rule changed so players who pick Samoa and Tonga now might pick nz

I've consistently mentioned non PI players that I think should have the opportunity to play. You don't think Casey McLean deserves to play Origin like Luai?

Then October it’s a pick between nz Samoa Tonga where their passions lie

No, they don't get to pick NZ, that's 100% the point.

I’m a huge advocate of nz2

That’s going to be a huge help for nz rl

It's not the silver bullet you think it is. A strong Kiwis team being competitive with Oz is going to hugely help league in NZ. Otherwise you're just getting the old school leaguies.

And the warriors job is to develop elite kiwi nrl players

You’ve said yourself Aussie clubs do that better

No it's not, it's not really, it's to win premierships. They're a private profit making franchise, not part of NZRL.

You guys literally just won the nsw cup against the best nsw clubs then went and beat the best qld team in the final

With Aussie halves. We used to go pretty well in the U20s too and that never led to anything.

Don’t paint me as biased against Maoris or nz Im the opposite

In this case you are, you can't pretend otherwise.

 

[Canard]

Has the ARLC actually spent any money in Tonga and Samoa?

Giving Jerome Luai some cash to play in blue isn't the same thing as developing the game.