The Dragons & Props

[SirShire]

This is really frustrating me.

So last night a drastically weakened Saints line up steam rolled a similarly weakened Panthers line up. Their normal bench props and reserve props posted the following stats:

Paea - 14 runs for 133m, 16 tackles.
Green - 15 runs for 94m, 22 tackles
Hunt - 15 runs for 107m, 41 tackles
Merrin - 7 runs for 50m, 17 tackles.

Huge effort from, plenty of go foward and good defensive work too. Now, prop is undoubtedly the most difficult position to play and fill in league - and yet even their reserve graders can pull of a dominant performance.

Granted, they have access to the best rugby league nursery in the world - but every prop in last night's match, save for Paea was a local junior or went through the Saints junior system for a number of years. Of the two regular props, Poore was a Helensburgh junior and Weyman was purchased. Before these two, Bailey was a Shellharbour junior, Ryles a 'Gong junior and Wicks (now with Knights) a local junior. Quite a production line, and all of it quality.

Last night I read a comment from a Saints fan ridiculing us for having to buy another prop, and I have to agree - it is a fundamental weakness of our club having to recruit in the most important position, and not only paying huge $ to half fill that position, but never getting the true dominant prop of the time to the club. Wayne has such depth in that position that he can afford to let Poore go as he will have a quality young bloke like Merrin or Hunt ready to step up to fill the void their shortly. It is a great cap saving device but it ensures he always has someone of quality to turn to in that position.

And I look at us. In contrast to the Saints, the props in our system get a shot out of desperation, and are incredibly overrawed by the experienced. Not in their first game, but so far in their careers. Look at Selmes. He hasn't improved at all in 3 years of grade. Douglas is the only prop our system has truly developed, and he is starting to go backwards. No other young props have stepped up - we've had to recruit Snowden, Donnelly, Ross, Norrie etc.

This is highly frustrating seeing that we have continually failed to snare any real quality to fill what is the most important position on the park. Wayne was walked into a very well developed side.

 

[Generalzod]

With all that talent how the hell is that team under the salary cap.

 

[SirShire]

The likes of Hunt (who has re-signed a new contract) were probably on long term contracts from their time in the junior system which wrapped them up slightly above the minimum $50k. When they mature and are about to come off contract, they can re-sign them for more and let go the previous incumbents of the 8 and 10 jerseys with little loss.

It is a brilliant tactic of getting the most out of your young blokes. The top 25 should have minimum two young, good quality, long term props in it to allow this to happen.

Unfortunately, the problem comes from our club paying promising juniors an insulting fee ($1500, which would cover insurance, which I think they still foot!), any wonder why they don't perform when given the chance like the Saints juniors do? Little incentive.

I know at least half a dozen young former Sharks juniors who have left the club to play in the Illawarra league for the likes of Thirroul and Collies for much better coin that what the Sharks even threw at them, and with half the training involved (2 afternoons a week!)

 

[murraymob]

to be fair to the dragons they also have not been able to hold onto some pretty good props due to salary cap. ross, baily, ryles and now poor

 

[Frenzy.]

This is really frustrating me.

So last night a drastically weakened Saints line up steam rolled a similarly weakened Panthers line up. Their normal bench props and reserve props posted the following stats:

Paea - 14 runs for 133m, 16 tackles.
Green - 15 runs for 94m, 22 tackles
Hunt - 15 runs for 107m, 41 tackles
Merrin - 7 runs for 50m, 17 tackles.

Huge effort from, plenty of go foward and good defensive work too. Now, prop is undoubtedly the most difficult position to play and fill in league - and yet even their reserve graders can pull of a dominant performance.

Granted, they have access to the best rugby league nursery in the world - but every prop in last night's match, save for Paea was a local junior or went through the Saints junior system for a number of years. Of the two regular props, Poore was a Helensburgh junior and Weyman was purchased. Before these two, Bailey was a Shellharbour junior, Ryles a 'Gong junior and Wicks (now with Knights) a local junior. Quite a production line, and all of it quality.

Last night I read a comment from a Saints fan ridiculing us for having to buy another prop, and I have to agree - it is a fundamental weakness of our club having to recruit in the most important position, and not only paying huge $ to half fill that position, but never getting the true dominant prop of the time to the club. Wayne has such depth in that position that he can afford to let Poore go as he will have a quality young bloke like Merrin or Hunt ready to step up to fill the void their shortly. It is a great cap saving device but it ensures he always has someone of quality to turn to in that position.

And I look at us. In contrast to the Saints, the props in our system get a shot out of desperation, and are incredibly overrawed by the experienced. Not in their first game, but so far in their careers. Look at Selmes. He hasn't improved at all in 3 years of grade. Douglas is the only prop our system has truly developed, and he is starting to go backwards. No other young props have stepped up - we've had to recruit Snowden, Donnelly, Ross, Norrie etc.

This is highly frustrating seeing that we have continually failed to snare any real quality to fill what is the most important position on the park. Wayne was walked into a very well developed side.

I actually can't remember right this minute if Cronulla has EVER produced a true hard headed, take it to the world prop. I think all of our best props over the years have been imports. That'd make it nothing new to have to be recruiting now.

We'd be struggling to find a representative quality half that has come through the ranks as well. Hooker too.

 

[blacktip-reefy]

The big fella Ritson was one of ours Frenzy. But dollars meant we lost him too.

 

[Frenzy.]

The big fella Ritson was one of ours Frenzy. But dollars meant we lost him too.

Yeah Ritto was one of ours but he didn't and may never of fitted my criteria.

You know, a Watson, a Davidson, a Sorensen.

No intimadators.

It's an interesting look at history then comparison to now. We've had good halves, good hookers, good props and good fullbacks.

Rarely have we had all 4 at once and the number the Shire has produced would be minimal at best.

9,7,6 and 1. It was never talked about as much but looking back they were probably the most important positions but in different ways

And we've never had the quadrella let alone produce sufficient numbers elite players to wear those digits on a jersey.

 

[blacktip-reefy]

I wold class Sorro as one of ours. He was a kid when he arrived.

 

[PJ]

Kearns? Pretty handy but does he fit all the criteria?

 

[Go Nulla]

Is there any update on Poore ?

 

[Jasdragon]

With all that talent how the hell is that team under the salary cap.

:lol: Dragons over the cap, I would accuse a lot of other teams of that before the Dragons we have lost tones of players over the years.

 

[The Popper]

We've always had trouble breeding top class props. Ritson, Bowen, Kearns, Stares, and maybe even Pierce are the only home grown ones that readily come to mind. Our real gooduns Watson, Stevo, Sorro, Genghis, Bundy, Ox, etc were imports. Good props are like gold - very hard to find.
From years of experience and observations, I found that the Cronulla Junior League was pretty soft when compared to others e.g. Dogs, and Panthers. Why? Well, partially due to our refs. Our refs seemed to book a bloke for any discretion. The others seemed to let the little stuff go e.g. toughen up, harden up. This really seemed to play against us in junior rep games. (Albeit, all this was years ago).
To my delight, Sticky hit on this fact very early in his stint here. He said he would introduce a strength programme to improve the strength and size of our athletes. This, of course, would also increase our player's confidence and self-belief. I don't know any results to date, but I was encouraged and impressed by Ricky's early awareness of the problem. Most astute - I thought.
Despite our current situation, I still have faith in Sticky. And the fact the Gus is purportedly back `on board' with Sticky could spell improvements sooner rather than later.

 

[LOYAL DRAGON]

Now Justing Poore will resign with us amount 275k

 

[Ausguy]

Now Justing Poore will resign with us amount 275k

huh?

 

[Rodent]

The sharks could have got Michael Weyman for a good price. It's not often you can get a prop for under $150k that plays origin the same season you recruit him. The best coaches attract the best players at the best price. Before Bennett came, the dragons needed to rely on juniors because Brown couldn't attract big names at a reasonable price.

 

[Go Nulla]

No great loss anyway.

 

[blacktip-reefy]

i agree. I was not happy that we are in a position where we had to sign Poore. Reality is we need a front rower leader. Now we are going to have to manufacture 1.
Or bring Morely back over for a year.

 

[Inferno]

Wasn't Weyman bought pre Wayne, or am I wrong?

I wouldn't say I'm happy we missed out, but I suppose its better than paying overs.

Mannah, Dougie, Snowden and Selmes. Has there ever been a younger first grade prop rotation?

 

[Frenzy.]

We've always had trouble breeding top class props. Ritson, Bowen, Kearns, Stares, and maybe even Pierce are the only home grown ones that readily come to mind. Our real gooduns Watson, Stevo, Sorro, Genghis, Bundy, Ox, etc were imports. Good props are like gold - very hard to find.
From years of experience and observations, I found that the Cronulla Junior League was pretty soft when compared to others e.g. Dogs, and Panthers. Why? Well, partially due to our refs. Our refs seemed to book a bloke for any discretion. The others seemed to let the little stuff go e.g. toughen up, harden up. This really seemed to play against us in junior rep games. (Albeit, all this was years ago).
To my delight, Sticky hit on this fact very early in his stint here. He said he would introduce a strength programme to improve the strength and size of our athletes. This, of course, would also increase our player's confidence and self-belief. I don't know any results to date, but I was encouraged and impressed by Ricky's early awareness of the problem. Most astute - I thought.
Despite our current situation, I still have faith in Sticky. And the fact the Gus is purportedly back `on board' with Sticky could spell improvements sooner rather than later.

Geez Pop you sound like me sometimes. I reckon if I go hunting in the archives I could find posts where I have written EXACTLY the same thing about the Sharks juniors.

Agree with all you say 1000%

 

[Frenzy.]

i agree. I was not happy that we are in a position where we had to sign Poore. Reality is we need a front rower leader. Now we are going to have to manufacture 1.
Or bring Morely back over for a year.

Ha ha did you watch Wigan v Warrington recently?

Morley has still got it. Beast!