Messi vs Rooney

[Ridders]

So Wolfsberg are not the champions?

Yes they are. They have also been an average team this season. Using them as some sort of standard bearer is idiotic given that there have been 9 teams in the Bundesliga (including Stuttgart) that have been better than them thus far.

If the season ended now then being 2 points clear or behind on goal difference is a bit different yeah. You see, one hand your at the top, on the other your not.

Ummm. Hate to break it to you but La Liga doesn't use goal difference as it's primary place sorter. If the season ended now Barca would be crowned champions by virtue of the fact that La Liga is sorted by head to head results (if teams are level on points) and Barca won their first encounter with Real this season.

So ummm yeah. Nice argument

 

[fish eel]

So Wolfsberg are not the champions?

If the season ended now then being 2 points clear or behind on goal difference is a bit different yeah. You see, one hand your at the top, on the other your not.

Barca are second in a league that 3rd is 18 points behind. They have Zlatan in for Eto'o, Xavi, Inesta, the great yaya toure etc. remember, not the one man team that are top of the EPL.

So yeah, nice argument. Cheers. ;-)

Stuttgart this year are a much better and tougher side that Wolfsburg

 

[pennywisealfie]

Ignorant comments about Messi aside, he is brilliant. However, Rooney and Drogba are the two best players in the world RIGHT NOW.

Lolz, you obviously havent seen the last 3 Barca games. Messi has produced some of the best single player performances i have seen for a while. Stick to the SPL, Bumble.

 

[Bulldog Force]

Messi scored 2 hat tricks in the last 2 Barca games in La Liga as well as a double in the Champions league. That's 8 goals in the space of 7 days.

 

[Bulldog Force]

exactly

rooney = best player in the epl

epl = best league in the world

therefore rooney = best player in the world (followed closely by ffl)

messi actually isn't even that good. i doubt the people hyping him up even watch la liga. anyone who watches barcelona knows that yaya toure is the primary factor behind all their success of late. if messi was better than ronaldo it's his voice we'd hear on the castrol commercial

What makes EPL the best league in the world? The fact that they splash around more money? The La Liga and Serie A are just as competitive as the EPL, the DIFFERENCE being the exposure that Man U and the EPL get on the commercial stations in the Western World. You never see the La Liga or Serie A results on Channel 10 sport now do you? All we ever hear is United this United that.

Fact: 2008/2009 Champions League Final, Barcelona DEFEATED Manchester United 2-0... with Lionel Messi getting the latter of the clubs 2 goals.
UEFA man of the match: Xavi
Fans man of the match: Messi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_UEFA_Champions_League_Final

Add to that, Barcelona are the only football team in history to win 6/6 titles, comprising the 2008–09 La Liga, 2008–09 Copa del Rey, 2009 Supercopa de España, 2008–09 UEFA Champions League, 2009 UEFA Super Cup and 2009 FIFA Club World Cup.

Messi scored the winning goal to win the 2009 FIFA Club World Cup. Manchester United did not even qualify for the competition.

 

[hybrid_tiger]

Care to explain?

All i read on this forum are experts saying that Rooney is carrying United. If he gets injured United, and England are stuffed and may as well not bother turning up.

Correct?

Now i look at the league table and i see United top, just put 7 past the team one point behind Inter in the league and has rubbish like Nesta playing for them.

Now i look at Barca and they are not top of the league, they couldn't even win in Germany (which United did against the German champions with a reserve team earlier in the season).

Why couldn't they? Messi could not win it on his own for Barca. Rooney can for United. Therefore on that basis, Rooney is better.

It really is that simple.

Ignoring the Rooney vs Messi argument completely for a second, to say Messi "can't take a game by the scruff of the neck" is just truly a ridiculous comment, one of the dumbest things I've ever read on here and that is saying something. And it is untrue.

As for your argument, Nesta was injured in the second leg of the CL tie and this Milan side is the worst I've seen in decades and only has two good defenders (Nesta and Thiago Silva) in the whole squad.

I think Rooney is a fabulous player and I'm not looking to detract any of his achievements, but just putting it into perspective. Personally they are both great players but I would take Messi as there is no other player who can produce what he can in terms of pure skill, brilliance and dribbling ability. Just my opinion.

However on that note, Messi will never be regarded as a better player than Maradona as Maradona did this week in week out against the best defences of the world in the Serie A, and did it while playing for a club lacking the talent of other big clubs at the time. La Liga isn't really known for it's defensive capabilties.

Also, Maradona single handedly carried one of the poorest Argentina sides I've ever seen to the World Cup.

 

[Tommy Smith]

What makes EPL the best league in the world? The fact that they splash around more money? The La Liga and Serie A are just as competitive as the EPL, the DIFFERENCE being the exposure that Man U and the EPL get on the commercial stations in the Western World. You never see the La Liga or Serie A results on Channel 10 sport now do you? All we ever hear is United this United that.

The EPL is quite clearly the best league in the world atm IMO. Hybrid just said it best, "this Milan side is the worst I've seen in decades and only has two good defenders (Nesta and Thiago Silva) in the whole squad."

And yet that Milan side are right in contention to win the Serie A. The Milan side that got roasted 7-2 by United. The Serie A, whilst competitive, is not a very high quality league atm.

As for La Liga, well you have two world class teams but pretty much nothing else. Every year you get a couple of quality teams around them, be it Sevilla, Valencia, Deportivo or Villareal; but by and large it is a league dominated by two quality teams.

The Premier League on the other hand has had 4 teams capable of winning the Champions League in it for the past 5 years. And now with Man City's billions you are looking at a league next year with potentially 5 of the top 10 club sides in the world. And after that id put the likes of Tottenham, Villa and even Everton on a par with the likes of Valencia, Sevilla, Juventus, Roma based on what we've seen this year.

But none of this changes the fact that Messi is still quite clearly the stand out talent in world football and is the major reason why Barca are clearly the best team in world football...

 

[Bumble]

Lolz, you obviously havent seen the last 3 Barca games. Messi has produced some of the best single player performances i have seen for a while. Stick to the SPL, Bumble.

Wow?!?! 3 whole games?!!?

Rooney and Drogba have been immense for 6 months - I already said that Messi is brilliant...but at this point in time, Rooney and Drogba are better.

Obviously Messi at his peak is untouchable, and I know that. But this year, formwise, he's behind those 2.

But as usual, you choose to talk to me like a sanctimonious twat. Good job.

 

[WireMan]

So the EPL is about as good as Spain or Italy? Yet Milan are really rubbish?

Hybrid mate, if you want to read something dumb just digest the points made above.

Rooney played against Nesta, away in the San Siro and pretty much played the back four on his own.

I'm aware that Messi scored in the final, but the fact that Xavi was man of the match tells you Messi wasn't the baest player on the pitch.

I'm also aware that Barca should not of been there after what happened at Chelsea, a tough match against proper defenders and Messi did what?

Previous year, up against United, Messi again did nothing. Don't get me wrong, i know Messi is a superb player, close to Drogba, Ronaldo and Rooney. Just IMO not as good as them, and on this seasons form, not even close to Rooney.

 

[Noa]

To turn that argument around what has Rooney done prior to this year to put him in Messi class.

Sure he was good but he wasnt worlds best good.

 

[hybrid_tiger]

So the EPL is about as good as Spain or Italy? Yet Milan are really rubbish?

Hybrid mate, if you want to read something dumb just digest the points made above.

Rooney played against Nesta, away in the San Siro and pretty much played the back four on his own.

I'm aware that Messi scored in the final, but the fact that Xavi was man of the match tells you Messi wasn't the baest player on the pitch.

I'm also aware that Barca should not of been there after what happened at Chelsea, a tough match against proper defenders and Messi did what?

Previous year, up against United, Messi again did nothing. Don't get me wrong, i know Messi is a superb player, close to Drogba, Ronaldo and Rooney. Just IMO not as good as them, and on this seasons form, not even close to Rooney.

It's very sad Messi discussions always end up in dick pulling about which league is better. It's irrelevant.

Saying Lionel Messi can't take a game by the scruff of the neck is ridiculous, pathetic, stupid, dumb and just plain wrong. As is saying he's "not even close" to Rooney.

If you truly believe this then I'm convinced you don't ever watch Barcelona play because it is simply a lie.

Really, for f**ks sake.

 

[anjado]

Messi and Ronaldo are clearly the best two players in the world still. Rooney is probably third but if he keeps up his current form through the world cup then he will be in with a shot at world player of the year.

 

[Bumble]

Messi and Ronaldo are clearly the best two players in the world still. Rooney is probably third but if he keeps up his current form through the world cup then he will be in with a shot at world player of the year.

*facepalm*

they haven't been this year - thats the point

 

[anjado]

*facepalm*

they haven't been this year - thats the point

I think Wayne Rooney is awesome and has been playing unbelievably well this season. But in saying that before this season began if you asked most people who the two best footballers in the world are, They would of said Messi and Ronaldo, Whilst Rooney has been superb and deserves a mention, Ronaldo has scored 22 goals in 24 matches for Real Madrid and i think he is still the leading goalscorer in the champions league this season.

Messi has scored 34 goals in 38 appearances also this season, He also plays for the team which should win the champions league again.

Whilst Rooney has been incredible and more consistent then ever before it's hard to go past Ronaldo and Messi still, They were so far ahead of everyone else at the beginning of the season that they would have to have a form slump like Kaka has had not to still be considered in the top 2 players in the world.

A bit like Tennis if a player was ranked say 30th in the world but won the Australian and Us Open it would still be hard to rank them ahead of Federer and Nadal if they both won the other two grand slams, He would clearly be the 3rd best player in the world with the view that if he could continue his feats into next season he would have a chance to topple them.

Which is where i see Wayne Rooney like i say if he has a big world cup and performs better then Messi and Ronaldo then he will deserve to win world footballer of the year.

 

[Ridders]

*facepalm*

they haven't been this year - thats the point

Ronaldo agreed, although a part of that has to do with the lengthy stints he's had on the sidelines due to injury.

But Messi? Really? Messi is playing better than he did last season, when it was between him and Ronaldo for best player on the planet. I may not agree with an argument of Rooney being on Messi's level, but I can at least understand it as there are facets of the game where Rooney is definitely superior to Messi. Both guys do alot more then just score goals.

 

[WireMan]

It's very sad Messi discussions always end up in dick pulling about which league is better. It's irrelevant.

Saying Lionel Messi can't take a game by the scruff of the neck is ridiculous, pathetic, stupid, dumb and just plain wrong. As is saying he's "not even close" to Rooney.

If you truly believe this then I'm convinced you don't ever watch Barcelona play because it is simply a lie.

Really, for f**ks sake.

So its irrelevant now it doesn't help the Messi argument. Okay.

Its pathetic, stupid, dumb and plain wrong is it? I have replied without insults to everything asked, you have posted petty name calling and nothing to say i'm wrong. Okaaaay.

Your right of course, i've never seen Barca play, silly me, its not like Football is ever on in the UK, and its not like anybody ever watches the game, your right of course. Okaaaaaay.

For f**ks sake. :roll:

 

[Ridders]

Your right of course, i've never seen Barca play, silly me, its not like Football is ever on in the UK, and its not like anybody ever watches the game, your right of course. Okaaaaaay.

Given some of the statements you've made in regards to Messi, it's not hard to see why HT came to that conclusion.

 

[Jason Maher]

Rooney is far and away my favourite player, but Messi is the best player in the world, and has been for a while. As I've said before, all the talent of Ronaldo, without all the histrionics.

To explain my vote: on current form Rooney and Messi are equal in my view, but Messi gets the nod due to having been at that level prior to this year.

 

[WireMan]

Given some of the statements you've made in regards to Messi, it's not hard to see why HT came to that conclusion.

I know why HT made those statements, its because he doesn't agree but hasn't got the wit to say why not.

If you can tell me why the statements are so far wrong as to be the most pathetic in forum history then please feel free, this is a forum and other people may see things different. My opions can change if someone points out where my logic fails. Some people can't and just name call.

I would however point to the comment you made:

there are facets of the game where Rooney is definitely superior to Messi.

Which facets are they? What is Messi better at, and out of these areas which are more important with regards to being the best in the world?

I think Rooney is better up front, passing, tackling, working for the team, carrying a team forward if it ain't playing well.

I think Messi carrys are greater threat out wide, and has some good footwork.

They are similar with reagrds to being marked by opposition and finishing.

Therefore IMO Rooney is the better footballer. I would pick Rooney in my team before Messi.

 

[Ridders]

Lets start with this gem where you said that on this season's form Messi's

not even close to Rooney.

I understand your a United fan, so I expect some natural bias, but to say that Messi's form hasn't even been close to Rooney is just ridiculous and brings up the question of how much of Messi you have actually seen this season. I mean I think Messi has been better but I also appreciate what a great player Rooney is and what a break-out season he is having. I don't think I've tried to downplay Rooney's skills at any stage yet you constantly feel the need to do so with Messi

Btw your downplaying of Messi's skills have been funny to read.

and has some good footwork.

LOL. I don't think there is a player this season who comes close to matching his dribbling prowess.

Just my opinion;

* Messi is easily the better dribbler and has superior footwork in general. Once he is in motion, very hard to stop
* Is also the more creative player. Some of the balls he delivers to set up team-mates are out of this world.
* In relation to the above point, Messi hasn't just been an elite goal scorer this season, he's also been a great facilitator. He has pretty much matched Rooney in terms of goals per game but has also provided plenty of either assists or secondary assists.

I don't know how you deducted that Rooney was a better passer then Messi. Would love to hear your argument for this. For your sake I'll say Rooney is the slightly better finisher but jeez we're splitting hairs here aren't we? They've both been mediocre in the air for most of their careers although in recent times Rooney has definitely improved in this area.

*I think Rooney's definitely the superior athlete and hence makes it harder to physically check him.
*Has a much higher work-rate (I don't think there is an elite forward in world football that can match him in this regard). I also think Rooney's work-rate would tend to rub off on his team-mates and make them work harder as well.

In the end I don't really care if you think Rooney has been better than Messi. You have your opinion, as I do mine. What's got me is your inaccurate down-playing of Messi to enhance your point. I don't know whether you intentionally do it or if it's due to the fact that you haven't seen him play much this season. Either way, I don't really see why it's neccessary.