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4 Nations game 4 - England v Australia

typicalfan

Coach
Messages
15,574
England found some backs!!!!

It is great.

Great Britian undies!!!

The Brits have always had decent fowards, just no finish. They have found some.

Kiwis will be nervous.

Did they get the rough end of the spud. Well yes, were they outclassed, well yes.

Must say though, best improvement I have seen from them for years.

Backs!!!!!
Luke Lewis could be Australia's best ever utility. The only positions he hasn't played at NRL level are hooker and prop and he would probably make an ok hooker.
 

typicalfan

Coach
Messages
15,574
Sinfield is pooooo.

Every time I see him play he's ballsing it up.
most of the England players are dime a dozen type players in the NRL. If they play out of their skins they can compete but usually the class of Australia tells.

Sinfield is ok. He wouldn't come near the Australian side though if he was an Australian. Would be a club level lock like that other club level lock in the side Heighington.
 

RedVee

First Grade
Messages
7,752
I was wondering if NZ sent Penenara as their Ref because he has reffed so few NRL games?

He is used to the one-ref system.
 

typicalfan

Coach
Messages
15,574
Watmough isn't a fantastic defender either but he is in the side for his running and sideways play the balls.

Seriously upper class locks in the NRL like Harrison, Gallen and Johnson would not have missed that tackle.
 

typicalfan

Coach
Messages
15,574
James Graham was the poms best just ahead of Tomkins. He is just about the only player...maybe Ellis as well that would make the Australian side.

Kirk Yeaman on the other hand is Ben Pomeroy standard. In fact that might be harsh on Pomeroy.
 

wibble

Bench
Messages
4,661
If dominating possession in the opponent's half but not actually scoring, but conceding tries the few times the opponent gets deep into your own half, like England did, are the hallmarks of the "better" side then my Sharkies were the better side in most games this year.

England need more composure from their "spine" (also much like the Sharks...), but Tomkins was brilliant.

The English backs in general looked better than the Aussie backs (Slater's 10 minutes aside). Lawrence looked out of his depth, Boyd was only passable, Uate looked dangerous but never actually did anything (other than drop the ball or go out) and Inglis looked tired the whole game (but will hopefully be better for the run, and still scored his obligatory try from his 1 or 2 touches). On the other hand, I thought Briscoe, Reed, and Hall all looked dangerous, Tomkins was the best on the field, and Yeaman was solid.

Lockyer and Thurston were controlled with limited opportunity, but Chase and Sinfield were hot and cold (Widdop was good though- give the kid a go!).

The forwards were mostly even, as the Aussies had the best but also the worst. Gallen and Scott stand out (as they do at all levels whenever they play) but Shillington and Galloway were a long way behind. As was the case in the last two games, when one of Gallen or Scott goes off the field, the Aussies look on the backfoot to the Kiwi and Pom packs. I'm biased, but has anyone else noticed that for the last few years Sheens uses Gallen as a "Mr Fixit" bringing him on when the Aussies are struggling and switching his sides of the field to where the opponents had been making progress?

Smith was his usual outstanding self, and Lewis is a star. Thaiday was workmanlike and Watmough was OK. Williams was great again. For England, Roby was fine, Graham looks well suited to the NRL, Ellis is all class, Peacock is always good, Westwood was good. In all, their injuries hurt them more than being "outclassed", as only really Gallen and Scott looked tougher than any of the Pom pack.

So the English side looks great and competitive, and hopefully will gain some composure from having played through a tough game. The Aussie backs look underdone but Lockyer and Thurston are the trump cards. Good game!
 
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Mr Angry

Not a Referee
Messages
51,816
I like your assessment, however, Smith, Thurston and Lockyer outclassed thier rivals.

They made mistakes, our spine made the passes. It was the difference.

For a change we did not beat them out wide.

Clutch was the day.
 

typicalfan

Coach
Messages
15,574
I thought Boyd was good. His pass to set up Lewis was class and considering he hasn't played fullback with any of these guys he did well.

Thurston and Lockyer v Sinfield and Chase was the difference. Throw in Cronk as well and it is well and truly one sided. When Cronk came on the game changed.

England were more enthusiastic and the forwards were better. I wouldn't say our backs were poor. Reed and Hall were great. Briscoe was ok, Yeaman is average. Lawrence looked rushed but still made good decisions in defense and Inglis was still a handful.

Uate didn't have a lot of opportunities but he still managed to make the most metres in the game.
 

wibble

Bench
Messages
4,661
Boyd passed well, but had a bad miss on the kick for the Reed try, and was short in defence a few times before moving to fullback. He is a fine player, but you notice the class drop off from Slater to Boyd.

Uate did have limited opportunity, but blew the ones he had. I think he was the best NSW outside back in Origin by a mile, so I have a lot of time for him, it just wasn't his day. He made "easy" metres today on the end of wide sweeping movements, but at his best he makes a lot of hard metres from the first and second hit ups to help out the forwards.

I haven't seen Yeaman in the Super League, but he handled Lawrence all right today, nothing spectacular. Lawrence missed every second tackle he attempted (or so it seemed) and looked poor, IMHO. And I think he has had a great year (when not injured) and is a future star, but today was not good.

Pommy forwards were much tougher than I anticipated- normally they are hyped up (Peacock has apparently been the best forward in the world for years if you listen to the Pommy commentators, but today he was good, on one leg), but they lived up to the hype.

Sinfield and Chase (and Roby, though he is fine, but just not a "half in a 9 jersey" like Smith) were really good at times, but the difference really was their "clutch" options compared to Lockyer and Thurston (as Mr Angry aptly said). But Lockyer and Thurston have been in supreme form together for years, as NSW has discovered, and are as good at controlling a game as any halves combo I've seen. Give an England spine a few years together (hopefully with Widdop there too) and they'll be better, and Lockyer will be gone (but Cronk is brilliant too- it will be interesting to see how Cronk and Thurston go at rep. level as a consistent combination...)

And about the ref...

I complain as much as anyone when I feel my team gets a dud call, but please...a send off for Williams? Not in any match for years has a tackle like that been worthy of a send off, and sin binning is not in the rules for high shots. The ref did the appropriate thing. Williams did not have a closed fist (despite some people saying he did), and did bounce off the shoulder (despite the complaints that he didn't). His timing in the tackle was off because Westwood juggled the ball before straightening. It was high, it was dangerous, it deserves a suspension, but it just wasn't send off material (it wasn't malicious, intentional, or wildly reckless).

The "no try" ruling was the correct call, in my opinion, but I did see it as close. I think it could have gone to the video ref if the grounding of the ball was the issue, but we always curse referees for not making a decision. The ball carrying arm definitely did not touch the ground, but a referee has to decide if a player's progress has stopped, and in this case I think it had, and then the player made a second movement, a lunge forward. The main concern was if the defender was still hanging on in the tackle. But the pass could have been called forward just before then (another close call, I'm not convinced it was forward) and the try was bombed from an easy dive to the corner, so it wasn't all the ref's fault.

The Lawrence try was completely different, as the player was still moving. It definitely would have been a double movement before the "momentum" rule. The issue is not if a player reaches forward after the ball is grounded (as Lawrence definitely did) but if the arm is taken off the ground by the player or if it bounces off the ground from the "momentum" of the tackle. I think it was the latter, and therefore a try.
 
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thommo4pm

Coach
Messages
14,814
Pretty much. Things that stand out as the gamechangers were Rangi Chase's 3 mistakes which led to points - the strip, the intercept, and the drop out. Defensively, Jack Reed's sprint out of the line effort and Heighingtons Soward-esque attempt on T-Rex were absolutely woeful.

As usual in these matches with England, overall good football but a few isolated moments of poor play and Australia capitalise quickly.

Are you getting Soward confused with Pearce or Marshall?
Sorry wouldn't be Marshall, he would have ran the other way.
 

gUt

Coach
Messages
16,935
Agree with the Tomkins calls, he is a class act. Don't know what the commentator is smoking wanting him moved to 5/8 when Widdop is coming off the bench.
 

PacificCoastRL

Juniors
Messages
316
Just watched the game on LiveNRL.TV. Here in Canada I can avoid hearing the score of any game quite easily - just stay off Facebook. My impressions - this game may have been a good advertisement for the two referee system. Tomkins and Hall could play in the NRL. Jack Reed was England's best IMO and I thought Australia's kick chase was average.
 

gUt

Coach
Messages
16,935
Also the poms are right to whine about the ref, he sucked and prejudiced our way the game big time imo.
 

Joker's Wild

Coach
Messages
17,894
I feel sorry for Pommy fans, I really do

There are so many similarities betweens the English and the NSW sides from the last 6 years I just cant help but to identify with what they are feeling and the misdirected frustration. Both sets of fans have had to deal with poor selections, a clear gap in player talent in key areas and copping a superior attitude from their opposing fans, with not much ammo to fire back with.


All that said, this was a real improvement from the Poms and I felt like Aust was a genuine chance of losing the match. Something I havnt felt in quite some time.

Good signs there
 
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