Denan Kemp a Dragon 2012

[Father Ted]

It might surprise a few people on here but personally I think the biggest weakness has become the dummy half. I am not a fan of Rein (he is tough and has heart but lacks creativity IMO) and for some reason Fien went off the boil. I really think we need to pose more of a threat around the ruck to take some heat of the outside backs who we relied heavily upon during the Bennett era. We rarely score tries in the middle third of the field. OK, its not about where you score them but I just feel it is another reflection of the lack of creativity in that area. A fullback that pushes up in support would also help that problem.

King perhaps around the ruck ????

 

[Breathingfire]

King perhaps around the ruck ????

I think its a must. We need some spark in that area not just solid reliable service from the likes of Young and Rein. Fien did a fantastic job in 2010 but he was a shadow of his former self last year. He was very very poor in defense at times too. I also think dummy half is one of the reasons our forwards got dominated last year. Look at how effective Melbourne's pack of nobodies were last year playing off the back of Cam Smith. Yes its Cam Smith, but a good hooker can really help the forwards get on the front foot.

 

[Father Ted]

Yep agree Although to me Young was always a Graham O'Grady sized lock with a Phar lap sized heart playing wherever the team needed him

 

[j0nesy]

Does anyone know what injury Kemp is recovering from? If he plays to ability, and has recovered from injury, I can honestly see him getting the #1 ahead of Stanley, with Stanley playing centre and perhaps in the halves.

 

[Stagger Lee]

So many options for the fullback/wingers /centres

I will make only one prediction - the trial games are going to be important!

 

[Minh]

I think its a must. We need some spark in that area not just solid reliable service from the likes of Young and Rein. Fien did a fantastic job in 2010 but he was a shadow of his former self last year. He was very very poor in defense at times too. I also think dummy half is one of the reasons our forwards got dominated last year. Look at how effective Melbourne's pack of nobodies were last year playing off the back of Cam Smith. Yes its Cam Smith, but a good hooker can really help the forwards get on the front foot.

Yep selective passing and running is the key to good dummy half play knowing when and where to pass to give the forwards the advantage and not get smashed in gang tackles because of predictability, Cam Smith is the best at it.

 

[TheRev]

Yes ive never thought Rein had a lot of creativity (well from what little he has played so far), but a capable fill-in if King isnt fit for whatever reason, and lets hope Fein recovers form, the experience of a Kiwi International is very valuable, especially if Young does Retire.

 

[Breathingfire]

Yep agree Although to me Young was always a Graham O'Grady sized lock with a Phar lap sized heart playing wherever the team needed him

I didn't rate him much when he first arrived on the scene. Too small for Lock and not creative enough for Dummy Half me thought, but then he developed out of sight and looked like being a permanent fixture in the rep scene and then injury robbed him at his peak. He has still done monumental things for the club, but had he not suffered those knee injuries who knows what he might have been. There wasn't a player I was more happy for when we won in 2010!

 

[gypsy]

Dean Young is in the same category as Nightingale. Both aren't the most naturally gifted, there's plenty bigger/stronger/faster, but they both have a great attitude and get the most out of themselves.

 

[Minh]

Dean Young plays with a passion you rarely see in any sport.

 

[Mr Red]

Yep agree Although to me Young was always a Graham O'Grady sized lock with a Phar lap sized heart playing wherever the team needed him

only difference is Young is 4 inches taller and 20kg heavier then O'Grady's playing weight...
Young is deceptively big - he is 6 foot and 100kg.
O'Grady played at 80kg..

 

[gypsy]

only difference is Young is 4 inches taller and 20kg heavier then O'Grady's playing weight...
Young is deceptively big - he is 6 foot and 100kg.
O'Grady played at 80kg..

It's all relative. The size of players since has gone up in all positions. How many 100kg centres running around 20 years ago? Now it's almost standard. Trevor "The Axe" Gillmeister played second-row at 92kg, lighter than Daly Cherry Evans and a lot of halfbacks nowadays. Young is still small for a Lock in this era.

 

[Cagey Mac]

It's all relative. The size of players since has gone up in all positions. How many 100kg centres running around 20 years ago? Now it's almost standard. Trevor "The Axe" Gillmeister played second-row at 92kg, lighter than Daly Cherry Evans and a lot of halfbacks nowadays. Young is still small for a Lock in this era.

Not really Gypsy (according to Wikipedia)

Glen Stewart is 98kg
Braith Anasta is 97 kg
Michael Luck is 98 kg
Paul Gallen is 103 kg
Corey Parker is 100 kg
Dallas Johnson is 92 kg
Todd Lowrie is 97 kg
Ashley Harrison is 97kg
Jeremy Smith is 103 kg
Luke Lewis (a surprising) 105 kg

Average Lock weight of 10 other NRL teams is 99kg

Dean Young at 100kg is a veritable monster ;-)

 

[Mr Red]

It's all relative. The size of players since has gone up in all positions. How many 100kg centres running around 20 years ago? Now it's almost standard. Trevor "The Axe" Gillmeister played second-row at 92kg, lighter than Daly Cherry Evans and a lot of halfbacks nowadays. Young is still small for a Lock in this era.

not sure what players you are watching but a 100kg lock is on the heavy side in my books...
most locks now days because they act as another five - eighth are a lot more mobile. probably around the 95kg mark.

and there has always been big backs throughout the history of the game

 

[Mr Red]

Not really Gypsy (according to Wikipedia)

Glen Stewart is 98kg
Braith Anasta is 97 kg
Michael Luck is 98 kg
Paul Gallen is 103 kg
Corey Parker is 100 kg
Dallas Johnson is 92 kg
Todd Lowrie is 97 kg
Ashley Harrison is 97kg
Jeremy Smith is 103 kg
Luke Lewis (a surprising) 105 kg

Average Lock weight of 10 other NRL teams is 99kg

Dean Young at 100kg is a veritable monster ;-)

thanks for the stats to re-enforce the point ;-)

 

[God-King Dean]

Style
C Stanley
Morris
Cooper
Nightingale
Goodwin
Vidot
Kemp

The problem I have with our squad is we don't have enough players for the backline.....

 

[gypsy]

not sure what players you are watching but a 100kg lock is on the heavy side in my books...
most locks now days because they act as another five - eighth are a lot more mobile. probably around the 95kg mark.

There's more to it than how they tip the scales. Glen Stewart might weigh the same (or maybe just less) but he plays heavier than Young. Things like pure height/weight measurements don't tell the full story, as body composition/density/makeup etc aren't factored in...this is why scales like BMI are so outdated and not used, they don't tell the story.
Dean plays lighter than most locks in the comp in my opinion. He works for every metre, often backs into tackles to gain that extra metre, as up top he isn't as strong. It's clear he isn't as powerful as a Stewart etc. whether this be genetics/his run with injuries etc who knows, but he's had to battle a lot more than those other blokes, it's plain to see.

and there has always been big backs throughout the history of the game

Like it or not, the size and makeup of players across the board has increased significantly over the last 20 years. Only natural since the game is so much more professional. Again, this can't be judged purely on weight, two players who weigh the same could be poles apart in just about every category.
Even wingers are 90-100kg, but built, and can run like the wind.
Like in other sports, comparing players from different eras can't be done accurately.
Hence my comment in the first place, it's all relative.

 

[Godz Illa]

Style
C Stanley
Morris
Cooper
Nightingale
Goodwin
Vidot
Kemp

The problem I have with our squad is we don't have enough players for the backline.....

8 first grade-quality players to fill 5 spots is actually a pretty handy position to be in - especially since 4 of them have played Test football at some stage.

In an injury crisis you still have Beau Scott who can fill in. Then you're looking at blooding rookies like Evander Cummins. So we're 10 players deep when the first rookie appears. Not bad really

 

[God-King Dean]

We should try & sign Tim Moltzen.

Comes off contract next season & would have good utility value.

 

[Mr Red]

There's more to it than how they tip the scales. Glen Stewart might weigh the same (or maybe just less) but he plays heavier than Young. Things like pure height/weight measurements don't tell the full story, as body composition/density/makeup etc aren't factored in...this is why scales like BMI are so outdated and not used, they don't tell the story.
Dean plays lighter than most locks in the comp in my opinion. He works for every metre, often backs into tackles to gain that extra metre, as up top he isn't as strong. It's clear he isn't as powerful as a Stewart etc. whether this be genetics/his run with injuries etc who knows, but he's had to battle a lot more than those other blokes, it's plain to see.



Like it or not, the size and makeup of players across the board has increased significantly over the last 20 years. Only natural since the game is so much more professional. Again, this can't be judged purely on weight, two players who weigh the same could be poles apart in just about every category.
Even wingers are 90-100kg, but built, and can run like the wind.
Like in other sports, comparing players from different eras can't be done accurately.
Hence my comment in the first place, it's all relative.

- you were comparing O'Grady to Young in the sense that they both play above their weight (in respect to the era, and weight of other players around them in that era)

- i agree with OGrady playing above his weight as most other locks in his era were heavier then him, all be it still lighter then the modern day players

- but i disagreed with comparing him to Young as Young doesnt play above his weight.. as the stats Cagey provided state Young is actually the same if not heavier then most other locks.. hence i disagreed with your analogy.

i am not arguing with your statement "players are getting bigger over time" - i agree with that.. i am disagreeing with your comment that Young plays above his weight. this is false - he weight is "relative" to other players in his position

hope that makes it clear?