End nears for suburban NRL grounds

[Perth Red]

What's the answer then? NRL wants 20k+ crowds, NSW Govt won't be helping develop suburban stadiums so where does the answer lie? Hard to see clubs finding $100mill+ to redevelop, doubt councils are going to be keen to stump up ratepayer $'s, C'wealth bah, nothing really in the ARLC strategic document to suggest they will be throwing cash in. It's easy to say keep things as they are but that is hardly going to help those clubs who find themselves financially straight jacketed by grounds with ltd corporate facilities and antiquated spectator facilities that keep the modern family away.

 

[BunniesMan]

You're like young 20's right?

So at most you were 11 or 12 when you moved north.

You never lived here while you had a drivers license, never had to commute to work across town or further everyday and you can probably count on 2 hands the amount of times you have been to Sydney since.

Oh yes, you know Sydney.

Well ok yes you're factually correct but your argument is still wrong and mine is right. I know Sydney.

Souths fans whinged about moving to ANZ. Everyone and their dog said they'd never go. Our crowds are now the highest they've been in 40 years. That would be the same for every other Sydney club. The fans would whinge for a bit, then the move would happen, then everybody would move on and crowds would increase.

 

[webbland]

OK, so we dont need crowds. Lets go the whole hog. Channel 9 and Foxtel each build a 120m x90m studio with a grass floor. Play all games there. :crazy:


Or upgrade Brooky for a fraction of the cost and get the same result.........

Listen genius - there is a factor at play here. Clubs increase their local fan base with strong seasons, and they lose potential new fans to sucessful nearby clubs in poor seasons. Souths havent had a successful season since Jimi Hendrix was alive. Meanwhile the four clubs around them, Easts, Saints, Balmain and Canterbury, have appeared in 28 grand finals and won 13. Anyone living around Redfern-Mascot-Maroubra are more likely to follow anyone else. The old Rabbitoh fans from the district in their glory days have moved and had kids and grandkids and live all over the place. The only reason someone is a Souffs fan is either because their grandfather saw Eric Simms play, or for the government dental plan.

The percentage of the polulation of Souffs fans is probably equal in Granville, Tamworth, Darwin or Madrid as they are in Redfern. Rusty took a game to f*cking Florida and got fans.


You cant charge anything for a seat that no one wants to buy you clueless gimp! Any accountant will tell you that!

Someone brought up the Parra crowds at Belmore. They made 3 grand finals and won 2 comps playing there - and had some of the worst crowds in their history.

People also forget that this is the era of night television. Saturday/Sunday arvo gives people time to wander all over Sydney to see a game. What family wants to walk out of ANZ at 9.30, find a train station at 10 - change at another one at 10.15 and then get off again at 11.15 and get home at f*cking midnight??????? All for a plastic f*cking seat?????????

stop it buddy..too sensible

 

[betcats]

Well ok yes you're factually correct but your argument is still wrong and mine is right. I know Sydney.

Souths fans whinged about moving to ANZ. Everyone and their dog said they'd never go. Our crowds are now the highest they've been in 40 years. That would be the same for every other Sydney club. The fans would whinge for a bit, then the move would happen, then everybody would move on and crowds would increase.

So it worked for Souths so it will work for everyone. Your logic is so basic.

This is why you are so disliked. Just because you say something doesnt make it true.

 

[Panfas]

Well ok yes you're factually correct but your argument is still wrong and mine is right. I know Sydney.

WTF!? :crazy:

You are a f**king genius of the highest order

 

[betcats]

WTF!? :crazy:

You are a f**king genius of the highest order

BM has google maps. he knows Sydney.

 

[franklin2323]

I travel from St Leonards to ANZ (Homebush) for Bulldog games every Friday and Monday (Obviously after work) and never had a problem getting there on time (I leave work @ 5pm), for the games on saturday and sunday I travel from Monterey (Drive)... I'd prefer to sit at ANZ in comfort then sit on the hill at Penrith, Brooky or Kogarah (And Kogarah is only 5 minutes from my place) etc. I'd rather wait about 2 minutes for a pie and beer at ANZ with a crowd of 30K+ then 30 mins at one of the suburban grounds with a crowd of 15K all crammed in.

Without getting personal. You said you. So no kids? Try and do it with kids. I would love to work from home and go straight there. I work in the CBD on the train can make it. My kids live at Penrith. I am no chance to get home and get to the game in time.

The odd game of course but to do it for 12 games no chance. As for the preference each to there own. If I want comfort. I stay home. I want to go to the game and be as close as possible. Hear the hits (less this year), See the gaps appear. ANZ you are so far away.

 

[Dogs Of War]

Well ok yes you're factually correct but your argument is still wrong and mine is right. I know Sydney.

Souths fans whinged about moving to ANZ. Everyone and their dog said they'd never go. Our crowds are now the highest they've been in 40 years. That would be the same for every other Sydney club. The fans would whinge for a bit, then the move would happen, then everybody would move on and crowds would increase.

This is the problem. And as teams who play a lot of games at ANZ and Allianz move ahead with more cash, and larger crowds, the difference between the have and have not's will become quite profound.

I think a few of the clubs not using these venues should look at special memberships that take advantage of those stadiums, so say a 4 game pass for the matches they move to those stadiums in the short term, which in turn may allow different fans of those teams to attend matches.

 

[Ozzy]

BM has google maps. he knows Sydney.

:lol::lol::lol:

 

[Pete Cash]

BM you simply do not understand the facts of life in Sydney. Talk about things you might understand like lying on an internet forum. Although you did actually fail at that as well sooooooooooooo

It is impossible to centralise the outer west clubs without building another stadium in the outer west. These are facts. You coming into this thread carrying on like you actually know what you are talking about declaring Penrith and Campbelltown to be a part of Sydney like they can just stroll on down to homebush is laughable. You are laughable.

Lets just stop all professional Rugby League being played in the outer west. What a brilliant idea. Are you for f**king real you moron.

You clearly do not understand the city of Sydney. Even when you were pretending to be from coogee that was clear. Your hilariously dumb claims about the outer west, your stupid arguments about GWS and what it represents. Please, leave this topic for the adults and people who understand the very real situation that faces Sydney. It is not Melbourne, it is not Perth and it sure as f**k is not Coffs Harbour.

 

[firechild]

Lets just stop all professional Rugby League being played in the outer west. What a brilliant idea. Are you for f**king real you moron.

DunniesGimp is a fumbleball troll so I'm sure he'd support this idea.

 

[BunniesMan]

BM you simply do not understand the facts of life in Sydney. Talk about things you might understand like lying on an internet forum. Although you did actually fail at that as well sooooooooooooo

It is impossible to centralise the outer west clubs without building another stadium in the outer west. These are facts. You coming into this thread carrying on like you actually know what you are talking about declaring Penrith and Campbelltown to be a part of Sydney like they can just stroll on down to homebush is laughable. You are laughable.

Lets just stop all professional Rugby League being played in the outer west. What a brilliant idea. Are you for f**king real you moron.

You clearly do not understand the city of Sydney. Even when you were pretending to be from coogee that was clear. Your hilariously dumb claims about the outer west, your stupid arguments about GWS and what it represents. Please, leave this topic for the adults and people who understand the very real situation that faces Sydney. It is not Melbourne, it is not Perth and it sure as f**k is not Coffs Harbour.

You realise a team that represents that area already plays two thirds of its game in the inner city (leichhardt/SFS) and they do just fine.

 

[Pete Cash]

Lmao its a joint venture between an inner west Rugby League side and an outer west Rugby League side. Now while the Campbelltown side gets f**king screwed based on the money they put into the venture they still do get a third of the games. Do you propose they lose that paltry allowance. That would be good for the game. The game of AFL and soccer that is.

 

[newman]

What's the answer then? NRL wants 20k+ crowds, NSW Govt won't be helping develop suburban stadiums so where does the answer lie? Hard to see clubs finding $100mill+ to redevelop, doubt councils are going to be keen to stump up ratepayer $'s, C'wealth bah, nothing really in the ARLC strategic document to suggest they will be throwing cash in. It's easy to say keep things as they are but that is hardly going to help those clubs who find themselves financially straight jacketed by grounds with ltd corporate facilities and antiquated spectator facilities that keep the modern family away.

There you go getting all hung up about crowd figures being the be all and end all again. I'll bet you just about juiced in your Elle McPherson intimates when the ARLC released that target figure of 20k. I'll bet that in your simpleton mind that you think that every club needs a 20k average and that figure isn't for ALL club games across the board.

Do you really think that if the sharks/Penrith/manly are regularly selling out their home games, and still draw the odd sub 13k crowd in shit weather, that amidst all of the other increases in memberships and tv ratings, that they would be moved?

 

[Dogs Of War]

It is impossible to centralise the outer west clubs without building another stadium in the outer west. These are facts. You coming into this thread carrying on like you actually know what you are talking about declaring Penrith and Campbelltown to be a part of Sydney like they can just stroll on down to homebush is laughable. You are laughable.

I think thats the point of what the NSW Govt is doing is to combat this issue totally.

By focusing on fewer stadiums, they will have the cash to be able to look at building modern stadiums in areas that require them (ie Campbelltown). Rather than spreading that load over basic updates to all the stadiums in the Sydney basin.

I think this is a better approach, and it's not as if teams need to move immediately, it's just over the next 10 years, certain stadiums will be allowed to be run down (ie Leichardt even more than it is already), and they won't be suitable for NRL football other than a preseason game or something of the like.

People will get used to the change as teams experiment with different venues for a few games each year. Then it's up to the NRL to lobby the NSW Govt to where a new modern stadium should be, or what upgrades are required to existing stadiums that NSW govt looks after (ie Parramatta to 30K, or extending the undercover areas at ANZ etc).

 

[magpie4ever]

It must be the off season and people must be bored sh*tless. The article suggested the NSW Govt strategy (rightly or wrongly) was to concentrate of updating or refurbishing stadiums and not suburban grounds.

So taking that line, then the effected grounds would be Brookvale, Kogarah, Leichhardt, Campbelltown, Cronulla and Penrith. Only Brookie is supposedly in bad shape and maybe, Leichhardt could do with a touch up, although there was a post on here suggesting the seating from the SCG was being relocated to Leichhardt in an upgrade. The rest are fine.

So Brookvale is the problem, surely the NRL can provide, say a $10 million (no interest) loan (to be repaid over a 10 year period) to Manly on a 50% basis with the council. That is $20 million refurbishment. Problem solved.

The teams that wish to remainder at the suburban grounds do so, the teams that want to play at the stadiums do so.

In other words, the State Govt can not bloody force teams to play at the stadiums. It is a non newsworthy issue.

 

[Perth Red]

There you go getting all hung up about crowd figures being the be all and end all again. I'll bet you just about juiced in your Elle McPherson intimates when the ARLC released that target figure of 20k. I'll bet that in your simpleton mind that you think that every club needs a 20k average and that figure isn't for ALL club games across the board.

Do you really think that if the sharks/Penrith/manly are regularly selling out their home games, and still draw the odd sub 13k crowd in shit weather, that amidst all of the other increases in memberships and tv ratings, that they would be moved?

How many times do I have to say it you inbred, I don't think or want anyone to be moved. It will be the clubs decision based on financial realities. Brookvale is never going to sell out 80% of games, it is never going to give the corporate facilities of new stadia. I have no idea the answer for sharks, manly and Penrith. Hopefully their boards do. What is clear now is that there is going to be no money to upgrade their grounds. Can they survive with them the way they are? Time will tell.

 

[BunniesMan]

It must be the off season and people must be bored sh*tless. The article suggested the NSW Govt strategy (rightly or wrongly) was to concentrate of updating or refurbishing stadiums and not suburban grounds.

So taking that line, then the effected grounds would be Brookvale, Kogarah, Leichhardt, Campbelltown, Cronulla and Penrith. Only Brookie is supposedly in bad shape and maybe, Leichhardt could do with a touch up, although there was a post on here suggesting the seating from the SCG was being relocated to Leichhardt in an upgrade. The rest are fine.

So Brookvale is the problem, surely the NRL can provide, say a $10 million (no interest) loan (to be repaid over a 10 year period) to Manly on a 50% basis with the council. That is $20 million refurbishment. Problem solved.

The teams that wish to remainder at the suburban grounds do so, the teams that want to play at the stadiums do so.

In other words, the State Govt can not bloody force teams to play at the stadiums. It is a non newsworthy issue.

When big clubs at big stadiums are starting to average over 20k a game, the Dogs are already there, Souths will be there soon, our average crowds are/will be higher than the CAPACITY of suburban stadiums. More and more the clubs at the big stadiums will have revenue that just makes the suburban teams revenue fall further and further behind.

With no more help from state governments to improve them, because of the limited size of their stadiums, suburban teams will just not have the revenue to play on an even playing field.

That is why this marks the effective death of suburban grounds. Not because the government can force these teams. But because the writing is on the wall. It will be a competition of 2 leagues before long if suburban Sydney teams don't make the move.

 

[newman]

I think the point of what the NSW Govt is doing is to combat this issue totally.

By focusing on fewer stadiums, they will have the cash to be able to look at building modern stadiums in areas that require them (ie Campbelltown). Rather than spreading that load over basic updates to all the stadiums in the Sydney basin.

I think this is a better approach, and it's not as if teams need to move immediately, it's just over the next 10 years, certain stadiums will be allowed to be run down (ie Leichardt even more than it is already), and they won't be suitable for NRL football other than a preseason game or something of the like.

People will get used to the change as teams experiment with different venues for a few games each year. Then it's up to the NRL to lobby the NSW Govt to where a new modern stadium should be, or what upgrades are required to existing stadiums that NSW govt looks after (ie Parramatta to 30K, or extending the undercover areas at ANZ etc).

The most sensible post of the lot. In this generation we have lost Henson Park, Redfern Oval, Cumberland oval, Belmore Sports Ground and Lidcombe Oval to the march of progress. You would imagine that leicchardt and brookie are next on the list if you apply logic and objectivity, but they aren't done just yet. Applying the same logic you would sense that with continuing minimal upgrades Toyota, Penrith, Kogarah and Parramatta will continue to be on the scene for a while yet and then reviewed 15-20years down the track depending on what happens.

 

[newman]

How many times do I have to say it you inbred, I don't think or want anyone to be moved. It will be the clubs decision based on financial realities. Brookvale is never going to sell out 80% of games, it is never going to give the corporate facilities of new stadia. I have no idea the answer for sharks, manly and Penrith. Hopefully their boards do. What is clear now is that there is going to be no money to upgrade their grounds. Can they survive with them the way they are? Time will tell.

Putting brookie aside, why do Toyota and Penrith need to be upgraded? Have you been to either venue recently? Both stadiums serve the needs of the clubs playing out of them and they easily meet NRL specs.