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End nears for suburban NRL grounds

newman

First Grade
Messages
7,207
When big clubs at big stadiums are starting to average over 20k a game, the Dogs are already there, Souths will be there soon, our average crowds are/will be higher than the CAPACITY of suburban stadiums. More and more the clubs at the big stadiums will have revenue that just makes the suburban teams revenue fall further and further behind.

With no more help from state governments to improve them, because of the limited size of their stadiums, suburban teams will just not have the revenue to play on an even playing field.

That is why this marks the effective death of suburban grounds. Not because the government can force these teams. But because the writing is on the wall. It will be a competition of 2 leagues before long if suburban Sydney teams don't make the move.

So you are convinced that souths and the dogs are the wealthiest clubs in Sydney because of recent strong crowd figures. Are you sure about that?
 

magpie4ever

First Grade
Messages
9,992
When big clubs at big stadiums are starting to average over 20k a game, the Dogs are already there, Souths will be there soon, our average crowds are/will be higher than the CAPACITY of suburban stadiums. More and more the clubs at the big stadiums will have revenue that just makes the suburban teams revenue fall further and further behind.

With no more help from state governments to improve them, because of the limited size of their stadiums, suburban teams will just not have the revenue to play on an even playing field.

That is why this marks the effective death of suburban grounds. Not because the government can force these teams. But because the writing is on the wall. It will be a competition of 2 leagues before long if suburban Sydney teams don't make the move.

This is just crap. What would be the nett profit from a crowd of say, 15,000 at Brookie, Leichhardt or Campbelltown against 20,000 at ANZ or SFS. Excluding the incentive payments by the stadium owners to teams to play at ANZ and SFS and I can guarantee a crowd of 15,000 at a suburban ground is more profitable then a 20,000 crowd at a stadium.
 

Valheru

Referee
Messages
20,020
Difference is all the clubs in Sydney already have their supporter bases, and they are generally from the local area their club represents. AFL fans in Melbourne are different and have no choice but to support a team of their choosing. If we were to start a comp all over and assign 8 new Sydney clubs from varying regions then you might have a point, bit that's not going to happen. You can't just take Penrith out of Penrith and Cronulla out of the Shire, or Manly out of Manly and expect their fans to follow them.


This is why it is imperative to keep at least a couple of matches at the traditional grounds. It would be up to the clubs to find ways to engage with the community to maintain a sense of community spirit.
 

BunniesMan

Immortal
Messages
33,788
So you are convinced that souths and the dogs are the wealthiest clubs in Sydney because of recent strong crowd figures. Are you sure about that?
I'm saying our crowds are growing and continue to grow partly because of the ground we play at. A couple years from now say Dogs and Souths are at 25k crowd averages. The increased revenue we get compared to what suburban teams get in their 20k stadiums will just mean more money week in and week out year in and year out. It'll enable us just to get further and further ahead.

As a souths fans I hope suburban teams sign a 100 year ironclad contract to play in the stadiums theyre in now.

But suburban teams will not allow us to get ahead and have such competitive advantages. Despite what some fans think, clubs will begin making the move before you think, within the next decade IMO.
 

newman

First Grade
Messages
7,207
I'm saying our crowds are growing and continue to grow partly because of the ground we play at. A couple years from now say Dogs and Souths are at 25k crowd averages. The increased revenue we get compared to what suburban teams get in their 20k stadiums will just mean more money week in and week out year in and year out. It'll enable us just to get further and further ahead.

As a souths fans I hope suburban teams sign a 100 year ironclad contract to play in the stadiums theyre in now.

But suburban teams will not allow us to get ahead and have such competitive advantages. Despite what some fans think, clubs will begin making the move before you think, within the next decade IMO.

So you have intimate knowledge of the profit that Souths return on a fixture attended by, say, 20k at ANZ? You also have intimate knowledge of how much Manly, the Sharks and Penrith turn over on a, say, 15k attendance at their home grounds so that you could make your comparison? Please share this info as I would be interested to know and I am sure that others on here would too.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
24,311
So you have intimate knowledge of the profit that Souths return on a fixture attended by, say, 20k at ANZ? You also have intimate knowledge of how much Manly, the Sharks and Penrith turn over on a, say, 15k attendance at their home grounds so that you could make your comparison? Please share this info as I would be interested to know and I am sure that others on here would too.

BM assumes a lot.
 

Yosemite Sam

Juniors
Messages
829
Souths get paid to play at ANZ stadium. They get the same payment for an 8K crowd as they do for a 30K crowd. The stadium also profits from the food and beverage sales, not Souths.

Cronulla and Penrith's stadiums are fine and easily upgradeable, even without government grants.
 

2012....Sharks Year

First Grade
Messages
5,983
I'm saying our crowds are growing and continue to grow partly because of the ground we play at. A couple years from now say Dogs and Souths are at 25k crowd averages. The increased revenue we get compared to what suburban teams get in their 20k stadiums will just mean more money week in and week out year in and year out. It'll enable us just to get further and further ahead.

As a souths fans I hope suburban teams sign a 100 year ironclad contract to play in the stadiums theyre in now.

But suburban teams will not allow us to get ahead and have such competitive advantages. Despite what some fans think, clubs will begin making the move before you think, within the next decade IMO.
Sorry Bunniesman but you're talking out your arse again. Your revenue is a set figure. The Bunnies and Dogs get no more $$$ out of a 50,000 crowd than they do a 20,000 crowd. Another thing you have not taken into account is the loss of revenue at the leagues club both before and after the game on game days. You can hardly move in Sharks leagues after a game....this would be lost if you took your games to Homebush along with the atmosphere of a full house at a suburban ground. Give me Leichardt...Win....Kogarah or Brookie anyday. I never bother with Homebush unless its SOO or semi-final time.
 

BunniesMan

Immortal
Messages
33,788
Souths get paid to play at ANZ stadium. They get the same payment for an 8K crowd as they do for a 30K crowd. The stadium also profits from the food and beverage sales, not Souths.

Cronulla and Penrith's stadiums are fine and easily upgradeable, even without government grants.
Wrong. We get bonus payments for big crowds. We have a flat rate we get so we don't get hurt by any bad crowds but we get extra for bringing in big crowds. There was an article at the time we extended our deal that mentioned how we get extra whenever we hit 15k and 20k and 25k.
 

AlwaysGreen

Post Whore
Messages
51,805
Wrong. We get bonus payments for big crowds. We have a flat rate we get so we don't get hurt by any bad crowds but we get extra for bringing in big crowds. There was an article at the time we extended our deal that mentioned how we get extra whenever we hit 15k and 20k and 25k.

:lol: You've had one fluke of a season. Watch the crowds plummet as the joke of the league reverts back to type.
 

typicalfan

Coach
Messages
15,574
I think there should be an increase on the minimum requirement of suburban grounds for things like capacity and goals set in place to achieve them. Doing away with them all together takes a lot of the culture out of Rugby League in Sydney which is the heartbeat of the game. People say look at AFL and A League etc but fail to see that neither of these codes are anywhere near as strong as Rugby League in Sydney at the top level and never will be. Rugby League is Rugby League it isn't dots on a map.
 
Messages
4,980
Increased running costs with extra bar staff /security etc..... but the turnover would have to be massive. Can't see how a well run club couldn't make more $$$ with increased patronage.

The report I read mentioned that whilst beer/food sales were up on game days, pokie revenue was way, way down and we know where most clubs generate their profit these days.
 

newman

First Grade
Messages
7,207
The report I read mentioned that whilst beer/food sales were up on game days, pokie revenue was way, way down and we know where most clubs generate their profit these days.

That article was a load of shit. If you have ever been to Sharks leagues prior to or after a game you can't move in the joint, bar lines are huge, can't get in the restaurants and there are plenty tipping the mortgage payments through the one armed robbers. Go there on a non game day and you are lucky to see 20 people in there. Without game days Sharks leagues would have been out of business 30 years ago. It's a huge benefit to the sharks to have the leagues connected to the ground.
 

innsaneink

Referee
Messages
29,385
Wrong. We get bonus payments for big crowds. We have a flat rate we get so we don't get hurt by any bad crowds but we get extra for bringing in big crowds. There was an article at the time we extended our deal that mentioned how we get extra whenever we hit 15k and 20k and 25k.

I have heard WTs have had a deal like this in the past, whether it was telstra or SFS I cant recall...dont think its uncommon
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
73,487
Don't anz, sfs etc clubs keep membership payments? If they are getting ticketed membership plus money from the stadium then all they are missing out on is food and drink and pay at the gate income.

Yes shark park and Penrith could be upgraded, if you've got a spare $150mill. Newcastle are a good example of a great ground renovation as will nib when it's finished. But you need squillions to do it.

Re income not hard to gauge when you consider the financial state of sharks, eagles and panthers. Penrith't p&l statement is avail in their annual report and you can see how much they make from game day activity, it isn't much.

I'd set a min 20k capacity with 75% undercover seating. Give clubs 5-10 years to work to it and help them with seed funding etc.

Shame nsw govt is so Skint. Wa govt is spending $1.2bill on one new stadium, for that sort of money you could sort out all the Sydney clubs grounds inc a new 35k western Sydney stadium.
 
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