Non Footy Chat Thread II

[Gary Gutful]

Everything has it's positives and negatives , but the claim here it hasn't proven to be effective is a nonsense. They have been doing it in Europe for some time, and the process is well developed and well researched.

As per your previous post I agree, it is a bandaid solution, however dismissing it because of that is a recipe to do nothing, because clearly there is no real appetite for any conversation around these drugs beyond the drugs = bad so criminalisation = good, type shit that we have had for ever.

I’d say dismissing the later is more of a problem than dismissing the former.

 

[84 Baby]

I don't get it. If they start confiscating their drugs then they won't go to get them tested.

I said it earlier that that’s a very short term fix but I certainly give permission for them to take drugs off my kids

 

[84 Baby]

These festivals where they would implement pill testing are all over 18 festivals. There will be no pill testing at a wiggles concert.

No under 18s go to these festivals?

 

[Gary Gutful]

First, pill testing has been shown to change the black market. Products identified as particularly dangerous that subsequently became the subject of warning campaigns were found to leave the market.

Research also shows the ingredients of tested pills started to correspond to the expected components over time. This suggests pill testing might be able to change the black market in positive ways.

Third, pill testing changes behaviour: research from Austria shows 50% of those who had their drugs tested said the results affected their consumption choices. Two-thirds said they wouldn’t consume the drug and would warn friends in cases of negative results.

Visits to pill-testing booths create an important opportunity for providing support and information over and above the testing itself. They enable drug services to contact a population that is otherwise difficult to reach because these people are not experiencing acute drug problems. Indeed, the intervention has been used to establish contact and as the basis for follow-up work with members of not-yet-problematic, but nevertheless high-risk, groups of recreational drug users.

Finally, pill testing means we can capture long-term data about the actual substances present in the drug scene. And it creates the potential for an early warning system beyond immediate users. This is becoming all the more important as new psychoactive substances that may be used as adulterants are appearing more frequently.

https://ndarc.med.unsw.edu.au/node/301000974

First, pill testing has been shown to change the black market. Products identified as particularly dangerous that subsequently became the subject of warning campaigns were found to leave the market.

Research also shows the ingredients of tested pills started to correspond to the expected components over time. This suggests pill testing might be able to change the black market in positive ways.

Third, pill testing changes behaviour: research from Austria shows 50% of those who had their drugs tested said the results affected their consumption choices. Two-thirds said they wouldn’t consume the drug and would warn friends in cases of negative results.

Visits to pill-testing booths create an important opportunity for providing support and information over and above the testing itself. They enable drug services to contact a population that is otherwise difficult to reach because these people are not experiencing acute drug problems. Indeed, the intervention has been used to establish contact and as the basis for follow-up work with members of not-yet-problematic, but nevertheless high-risk, groups of recreational drug users.

Finally, pill testing means we can capture long-term data about the actual substances present in the drug scene. And it creates the potential for an early warning system beyond immediate users. This is becoming all the more important as new psychoactive substances that may be used as adulterants are appearing more frequently.

https://ndarc.med.unsw.edu.au/node/301000974

Thanks mate - I read this and a bunch of other stuff.

I stand by the band aid solution comment.

But I retract my statement about having just as many negatives as positives. That’s bullshit. The positives outweigh the negatives.

 

[Gary Gutful]

I’d say dismissing the later is more of a problem than dismissing the former.

I’d say that’s questionable based on what I have now read.

I also hadn’t thought of the potential negatives associated with removing all (or the vast majority of) drugs.

 

[Gronk]

Pill Testing podcast with Richard Glover @abc

What happens in the Pill Testing tent ?

https://www.abc.net.au/radio/sydney/programs/drive/david-caldicott/10602846

 

[84 Baby]

pill testing will save lives, no doubt if some clown whats to take half a dozen and drink a bottle of bourbon they are beyond hope

I've seen some flaked out on the turf at 3 in the afternoon and the events generally go till the noise curfew, 11 PM, so some have no idea its all about the now,

there are 16 year olds at most concerts, pretty rare to get them any lower, not every one has the wrist band that lets them buy alcohol which is how you can tell if they are under 18. You have a point if the kids are say under 16. Lets face it most of us had drink at or before 16 but some of these chemical drugs are different, they are not legal like alcohol so they have no standards as to how they are made or the limit of of their toxicity.

We agree then pill testing won’t save those who are going overdose/dehydrate, it’ll only remove some bad batch pills from being used. While I’m for “if it saves one life, it’s worth it”, it also increases the risk of overdosing on “safe” pills by those who would have otherwise been more averse, as well as apathy for getting subsequent pills tested because the last ones you got were fine.
Government manufacturing would be better than pill testing

 

[hindy111]

Your arguments align with the gun lobby when they say that cars kill,so might as well ban cars.

I am flabbergasted that you are trying to argue the case against pill testing. If it doesn’t cost you any money (promoters will pay) and saves just one life - isn’t that just fantastic?

Flabbergasted?Haven't heard that word in years.
I just asked peoples opinion. I am happy for them to do it i just dont think it will work for reasons stated.
And I also think its only going to cover a tiny percentage of pills consumed.

 

[hindy111]

We agree then pill testing won’t save those who are going overdose/dehydrate, it’ll only remove some bad batch pills from being used. While I’m for “if it saves one life, it’s worth it”, it also increases the risk of overdosing on “safe” pills by those who would have otherwise been more averse, as well as apathy for getting subsequent pills tested because the last ones you got were fine.
Government manufacturing would be better than pill testing

Agree. But drugs can be fine yet send people into psychosis after years of taking. Sometimes even months.

 

[carson]

Might be some pill testing going on at the Weir stables this morning...

 

[Gronk]

Flabbergasted?Haven't heard that word in years.
I just asked peoples opinion. I am happy for them to do it i just dont think it will work for reasons stated.
And I also think its only going to cover a tiny percentage of pills consumed.

^^^ Listen to the interview with the Emergency Medicine Dr from the ACT trial.

I am not sure about your benchmark for success is when you say that "it will not work". As the Dr says in the podcast, unless you can 100% guarrantee that no pills will get into these festivals, then you better have a plan B.

Pill testing is a preventative measure. Like confronting merkins about skin cancer with shots of melanoma or mouth cancer shots on a packet of darts. At the coal face they say to the kids who have these pills that they are risking their lives by taking it and/or mixing it with other substances. That many have died by taking the pill they have in their hands.

The conversion rate for ditching pills in Austria (who have been pill testing for 20 years) is very high. How is this differnet to merkins telling you to swim between the flags ? We all know that some people will go and swim at an unpatrolled beach and drown anyway. So we shouldn't have life savers because they won't save everyone ?

 

[Gronk]

Might be some pill testing going on at the Weir stables this morning...

Huge for the industry.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/racing...=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1548800652

A Victoria Police spokeswoman said the trio would be interviewed in relation to sporting integrity matters, including obtaining financial advantage by deception, engaging in conduct that corrupts or would corrupt a betting outcome of an event or event contingency, use of corrupt conduct information for betting purposes, and attempting to commit an indictable offence namely obtain financial advantage by deception.

 

[hindy111]

^^^ Listen to the interview with the Emergency Medicine Dr from the ACT trial.

I am not sure about your benchmark for success is when you say that "it will not work". As the Dr says in the podcast, unless you can 100% guarrantee that no pills will get into these festivals, then you better have a plan B.

Pill testing is a preventative measure. Like confronting merkins about skin cancer with shots of melanoma or mouth cancer shots on a packet of darts. At the coal face they say to the kids who have these pills that they are risking their lives by taking it and/or mixing it with other substances. That many have died by taking the pill they have in their hands.

The conversion rate for ditching pills in Austria (who have been pill testing for 20 years) is very high. How is this differnet to merkins telling you to swim between the flags ? We all know that some people will go and swim at an unpatrolled beach and drown anyway. So we shouldn't have life savers because they won't save everyone ?

I agree. Pill testing is a yes for me.I've been convinced now and changed opinion .
Next topic.

 

[Twizzle]

Thanks mate - I read this and a bunch of other stuff.

I stand by the band aid solution comment.

But I retract my statement about having just as many negatives as positives. That’s bullshit. The positives outweigh the negatives.

what ever we can come up with to keep the kids safe will only ever be a band aid solution, I agree

But prohibition does not work so if there is a harm minimisation plan in place for now, I think its better than doing nothing and relying on police and sniffer dogs to do their jib as that doesn't work

 

[Twizzle]

Government manufacturing would be better than pill testing

the first point in the article I posted above states that pill testing weeds out the backyarders as no one will buy them unless they are safe, not as good as having them made under govt control but another step in the right direction imo

 

[Gronk]

Not saying that legalization of recreational drugs is the right thing for our community, but Portugal have had amazing success with their 2001 drug reforms. Less overdoses, crime etc.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/20...licy-is-working-why-hasnt-the-world-copied-it

 

[parra pete]

Huge for the industry.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/racing...=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1548800652

A Victoria Police spokeswoman said the trio would be interviewed in relation to sporting integrity matters, including obtaining financial advantage by deception, engaging in conduct that corrupts or would corrupt a betting outcome of an event or event contingency, use of corrupt conduct information for betting purposes, and attempting to commit an indictable offence namely obtain financial advantage by deception.

Stewards are going to have to do an 'amp meter' tests on future winning horses..

Weiry is innocent....

 

[Eelogical]

Not saying that legalization of recreational drugs is the right thing for our community, but Portugal have had amazing success with their 2001 drug reforms. Less overdoses, crime etc.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/20...licy-is-working-why-hasnt-the-world-copied-it

It has to be asked. Where would the control rest? As an example, any previous over the counter medicine that contained codeine now requires a script. Would the same philosophy apply to legalized recreational drugs?

 

[84 Baby]

the first point in the article I posted above states that pill testing weeds out the backyarders as no one will buy them unless they are safe, not as good as having them made under govt control but another step in the right direction imo

Backyarders are more likely to have bad batches but that isn’t going to stop chemists from also producing bad shit, or importers importing backyard level stuff

 

[Eelogical]

Gary, how's the pommy fish and chips going?