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Farewell

Old Timer

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
16,949
rasaint said:
Hi All,

This is a genuine post and seeking some interesting definite views. I do believe that the coach/ CEO/ Management desire success and for us loyal dragons to watch the shield again raised by a player wearing a big red v.
The coach is heavily criticised across many posts. It’s usually about how bad Mary is, McIdiot, etc etc.
Of the top coaches who would the club be able to get? Top ones:

Craig Bellamy has been with Melbourne since 2003. Great record of 68% win rate. Storm has been publicly noted as having nearly $1 m in TPAs. In other words pretty rusted on Storm coach and why not with the buy power for players. 15 years and 2 grand final wins Tanked at State of Origin.

Wayne Bennett 62% win rate over many years of 31years of coaching mostly with big TPA club the Broncos. 7 premierships over 30 years. Tanked with Newcastle at 45% win rate over 3 seasons.low TPA club average roster. Won with dragons after they got Gaz back on lucrative back ended contract.

Trent Robinson 62% win rate with wealthy Roosters club. Reported $450k TPAs. 2 premierships. He isn’t going anywhere and why would you? with the cash and the Eastern Suburbs vibe and a big hitter at high levels NicknPolitis.

Michael Maguire on 54% win rate across Souths and Wests. 56% with Souths. One premiership.

Ricky Stuart 49% win across 4 clubs. Coached roosters to one premiership at 61% win rate. All other clubs sharks eels Raiders 42%/21% / 47% respectively.

Shane Flanagan 55% win rate over 4 seasons with sharpies and a premiership.

Paul McGregor 51% win rate over 5 + seasons. Coaching famous red v joint venture but low TPAs.

Lots of others like Cleary, Brian Smith, etc etc around the 50% mark in Australia.

So fellow tragic who is the top line coach that so many require the club to recruit and is available?

Even the best coaches with big TPAs and star studded teams still lose at least a significant amount of games. Great players make a great coach.
Click to expand...
Not sure why this post is on here but in an effort to be inspired by OV I suggest the following
If the top coaches cannot be levered out of their current situations (Bennett was the exception) then you only have 3 options
1. ESL coaches
2. Pick one of the current lower level NRL coaches who like our coach have ordinary records and next to no hope of ever winning a comp
3. Have the balls to pick a rookie like JD who IMO would be no worse option than any of the coaches covered in point 2 and has far more potential than any of them.
Our lack of ability to get access to those covered in 1. Combined with our lack of vision to use 3. Means we inevitably fall into 2. And Mc Gregor is on par with them so our BOD get away with extending him.
 
Brutalitops

Brutalitops

Juniors
Messages
2,333
If signing McGregor for 2 years so an all out assault on a Bellamy/Robinson tier coach could be done when they come off contract in the same year could happen, I'd be less against it.

But instead Mary will just be extended after another 2 years of 7th
 
R

rasaint

Juniors
Messages
1,053
Hi OT ,

Just reading through this thread and the whole coach/ management thing raised again as it does in many posts. I did forget Geoff Toovey at 58% win rate.
That’s why I posted this thread.

I am not for or against McGregor. I also liked Demitrou and the 2 grade Dragon team played wonderfully well when he was coach.

What I have always found interesting is that the high win coaches such as Bellamy ( untried at any other club) Robinson ( untried at any other club) also have the big TPAs and finances behind them. Maguire was heralded as Souths coach forever after the win in 2014 with Burgess Brothers Luke Keary (fab player) and Greg Inglis at his best, but tailed off again as injuries struck etc. and now at Tigers where a below average roster has meant a couple of shocking losses. I still think he is a good coach.

I am not delusional to say that if our roster stayed healthy last year, we were the team that could and would of beat Easts. This year we are left with a salary cap minus 585k probably 2 seasons because JDB is stood down. The NR L couldn’t care less as arrogantly sided with the money clubs by newspaper accounts for the stand down opposite to their agreed policy. Telling us stump up cash yourselves losers indefinitely at this stage and you can not simply buy a player of that caliber off the shelf. Also let’s face it who would have thought that Widdop and Norman would be gone for long term injuries now.

I enjoy your posts and do wish Mary would elevate Timm or Kerr for their shot at the big time.
 
hazzbeen

hazzbeen

Bench
Messages
4,617
rasaint said:
Hi OT ,

Just reading through this thread and the whole coach/ management thing raised again as it does in many posts. I did forget Geoff Toovey at 58% win rate.
That’s why I posted this thread.

I am not for or against McGregor. I also liked Demitrou and the 2 grade Dragon team played wonderfully well when he was coach.

What I have always found interesting is that the high win coaches such as Bellamy ( untried at any other club) Robinson ( untried at any other club) also have the big TPAs and finances behind them. Maguire was heralded as Souths coach forever after the win in 2014 with Burgess Brothers Luke Keary (fab player) and Greg Inglis at his best, but tailed off again as injuries struck etc. and now at Tigers where a below average roster has meant a couple of shocking losses. I still think he is a good coach.

I am not delusional to say that if our roster stayed healthy last year, we were the team that could and would of beat Easts. This year we are left with a salary cap minus 585k probably 2 seasons because JDB is stood down. The NR L couldn’t care less as arrogantly sided with the money clubs by newspaper accounts for the stand down opposite to their agreed policy. Telling us stump up cash yourselves losers indefinitely at this stage and you can not simply buy a player of that caliber off the shelf. Also let’s face it who would have thought that Widdop and Norman would be gone for long term injuries now.

I enjoy your posts and do wish Mary would elevate Timm or Kerr for their shot at the big time.
Click to expand...
Good post mate , on Maguire he wins then the Premiership , then gets punted for under performing after a couple of years . We extend our coaches contract when he should have been shafted .
 
merahputih

merahputih

Juniors
Messages
922
Jack Gibson, who knew a bit about coaching (and introduced a lot of the training innovations still in use today, plus educating himself extensively both here and overseas on the latest advances in coaching and training methods from other sports - a man way ahead of his time) once said that to win a comp a team has to have a core of five or six tough, hard competitors and a captain who can inspire a team, particularly in moments of adversity.
The question you have to ask yourself is do we meet all those criteria this year with all the problems that have arisen.
I don't think so.
 
W

Warabrook saint

Juniors
Messages
1,799
Old Timer said:
Not sure why this post is on here but in an effort to be inspired by OV I suggest the following
If the top coaches cannot be levered out of their current situations (Bennett was the exception) then you only have 3 options
1. ESL coaches
2. Pick one of the current lower level NRL coaches who like our coach have ordinary records and next to no hope of ever winning a comp
3. Have the balls to pick a rookie like JD who IMO would be no worse option than any of the coaches covered in point 2 and has far more potential than any of them.
Our lack of ability to get access to those covered in 1. Combined with our lack of vision to use 3. Means we inevitably fall into 2. And Mc Gregor is on par with them so our BOD get away with extending him.
Click to expand...
If the board can't see the potential in JD when what he achieved when he was with us, then they're as docile as mcgregor. I think it’s more like corruption
 
Old Timer

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
16,949
rasaint said:
Hi OT ,

Just reading through this thread and the whole coach/ management thing raised again as it does in many posts. I did forget Geoff Toovey at 58% win rate.
That’s why I posted this thread.

I am not for or against McGregor. I also liked Demitrou and the 2 grade Dragon team played wonderfully well when he was coach.

What I have always found interesting is that the high win coaches such as Bellamy ( untried at any other club) Robinson ( untried at any other club) also have the big TPAs and finances behind them. Maguire was heralded as Souths coach forever after the win in 2014 with Burgess Brothers Luke Keary (fab player) and Greg Inglis at his best, but tailed off again as injuries struck etc. and now at Tigers where a below average roster has meant a couple of shocking losses. I still think he is a good coach.

I am not delusional to say that if our roster stayed healthy last year, we were the team that could and would of beat Easts. This year we are left with a salary cap minus 585k probably 2 seasons because JDB is stood down. The NR L couldn’t care less as arrogantly sided with the money clubs by newspaper accounts for the stand down opposite to their agreed policy. Telling us stump up cash yourselves losers indefinitely at this stage and you can not simply buy a player of that caliber off the shelf. Also let’s face it who would have thought that Widdop and Norman would be gone for long term injuries now.

I enjoy your posts and do wish Mary would elevate Timm or Kerr for their shot at the big time.
Click to expand...
Toovey & Hassler are interesting conundrums in that I think their best work would always be at Manly as they bleed for the club so not positive they can replicate that at a club like ours.
People say something similar about coach but of course he is an Illawarra man at heart and in reality a late comer to the Dragons so not sure he bleeds R & W more likely Scarlet & White.
St George has lost so much of its soul over the period since the JV so it is hard to know who really bleeds R & W (Coyne most likely) so we don't have the same passion for us from proven coaches such as Hassler & Toovey for Manly nor do we have the associations and love such as Bellamy for Storm & now Robinson for the Roosters.
We could have brokered it with Bennett (he really had the sense of what St George was about and needed to do) with a 5 year deal back in 2009 but we were too short sighted to build the dynasty.
Funnily as much as I dislike Gould and really don't want him at our club in many ways he has the real sense of what St George should mean to the NRL and understands the great history of the club.
So maybe i'm softening a bit and willing to change my stance in that if Gould was to come out of the woodwork to coach for a couple of years he might be able to put the fire in the belly and then create the foundation for a JD to come and stay for a successful stint.
IMO we would get far more for our $ if Gould coached for 2 years rather than you know who.
 
2010

2010

Bench
Messages
3,490
Objective View said:
I've waited a few days to let the disastrous confirmation of Mary's extension sink in.

Now that it has, I can announce with a clear mind my departure from following the game altogether.

The St George board are a disgusting group of incestuous, incompetent, self serving cretins. Not an ounce of professional fibre in their body.

All the best boys and girls.

Straight Shooter
Click to expand...
I would be sorry to see you leave, we do need that objective view on the mess our coaching staff are.
 
possm

possm

Coach
Messages
15,591
merahputih said:
Jack Gibson, who knew a bit about coaching (and introduced a lot of the training innovations still in use today, plus educating himself extensively both here and overseas on the latest advances in coaching and training methods from other sports - a man way ahead of his time) once said that to win a comp a team has to have a core of five or six tough, hard competitors and a captain who can inspire a team, particularly in moments of adversity.
The question you have to ask yourself is do we meet all those criteria this year with all the problems that have arisen.
I don't think so.
Click to expand...
What is more important is, does Mary and Millward understand that this is what we need in our squad and our captain. With Bennett it was addressing the softness in our forward pack packaged with Boyd at fullback; we already had a very good backline.

Today it is the absence of a captain with leadership qualities, a shaky back 3 and middle of the road centres.
 
_Johnsy

_Johnsy

Referee
Messages
27,377
Old Timer said:
Funny how sum criticised OV and wished him to hell and when he leaves they check on him to see if he is looking in and then offer comment about that.
For my own part I enjoyed having OV as part of the forum and watching people letting him get up there noses is something I will miss
I wish him well and hope he does look in from afar and if he does come back I will be happy and offer nothing other than a welcome where some will no doubt try and hang him due to his announcement to leave
Anyone who doubts his love and passion for the big red v is a dill
Click to expand...
Wished him to hell?

Interesting take, I have not doubted his passion for the red V at any point. Hang him? I think you need to leave the theatrics at the door. I just called his post for what it was.
 
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