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14 Team SL and Merged Championship?

Pippen94

First Grade
Messages
9,072
Outside of mythical "tv rights increases", what are you proposing? And please, if your follow up is "better marketing and promotion of the game!" then don't bother. Sky poured millions into it for decades. They are the biggest sports broadcaster in the UK and they push it plenty.

The reality is the central distribution is now fairly small. That counter intuitively opens up the opportunity for more clubs. The bigger ones like St Helens have already indicated that they could take less.

Best to approach Vlandys and ask for his help
 

Taking The Two

Juniors
Messages
898
Outside of mythical "tv rights increases", what are you proposing? And please, if your follow up is "better marketing and promotion of the game!" then don't bother. Sky poured millions into it for decades. They are the biggest sports broadcaster in the UK and they push it plenty.

The reality is the central distribution is now fairly small. That counter intuitively opens up the opportunity for more clubs. The bigger ones like St Helens have already indicated that they could take less.

So, the solution is to create a race to the bottom? You pull money away from existing clubs, many of which aren’t up to a sufficient standard as it is, to push it towards ‘new’ clubs, who, in many cases, aren’t close to the standard of the existing clubs who aren’t up to a sufficient standard. You then create crap games, a league that is poor to watch, populated with up to 140 overseas players and thus continue the cycle of decreasing TV rights. It’s a vicious cycle that you create and don’t break by doing what they’re doing.

You use your money wisely. We’ve pumped roughly £1m in IMG’s direction to basically say “yeah, cheers for that information and investigation that you’ve carried out but we’re not going to do that and just do what we want”. IMG, whether they have been good or bad, have lasted 2-3 years, for what has come from it, it’s £1m down the drain. That’s £1m that could have gone into asset generation or even being spent on working with a dedicated marketing company to elevate the brands and players within the sport. You won’t get Mikey Lewis going on talk shows or being a household name in a comparable way to that of Rugby Union players in England by letting them continue acting the way they do.

As someone that actually lives in England and subscribes to Sky, the promotion of the sport has regressed. We no longer get an advert in the build up to a new season in the way we previously did or how others do (the Lions RU tour, Darts, Ashes Cricket, F1, Football etc). We get promotion on the 24 hour news channel but it rarely goes beyond that these days. Sky do their bit to an extent but it’s certainly nowhere near where it has been. I don’t believe we will get a TV increase, in fact, it will go down, I’ve never suggested otherwise but our clubs have not really moved with the times and looked to move with the advances of technology. That is a must. The OurLeague app is crap, its used for very little and massively under utilised, for example

Ultimately, we need enough teams or a certain standard. We need clubs with assets, clubs with pathways, clubs ran well and utilising technology and changes to consumption of sports. We don’t have that now and we’re not getting it by watering down an already watered down competition. I was at London v Oldham at the weekend, there wasn’t more than 500 there and no more than 40 Oldham fans. There’s a possibility that next time the two play each other, it’s a top flight game and the attendance certainly will not be more than 5,000 fans.

I’m not against new teams but we don’t need more than 12 clubs (arguably 10).
 

BODISGOD

Bench
Messages
4,016
So, the solution is to create a race to the bottom? You pull money away from existing clubs, many of which aren’t up to a sufficient standard as it is, to push it towards ‘new’ clubs, who, in many cases, aren’t close to the standard of the existing clubs who aren’t up to a sufficient standard. You then create crap games, a league that is poor to watch, populated with up to 140 overseas players and thus continue the cycle of decreasing TV rights. It’s a vicious cycle that you create and don’t break by doing what they’re doing.

You use your money wisely. We’ve pumped roughly £1m in IMG’s direction to basically say “yeah, cheers for that information and investigation that you’ve carried out but we’re not going to do that and just do what we want”. IMG, whether they have been good or bad, have lasted 2-3 years, for what has come from it, it’s £1m down the drain. That’s £1m that could have gone into asset generation or even being spent on working with a dedicated marketing company to elevate the brands and players within the sport. You won’t get Mikey Lewis going on talk shows or being a household name in a comparable way to that of Rugby Union players in England by letting them continue acting the way they do.

As someone that actually lives in England and subscribes to Sky, the promotion of the sport has regressed. We no longer get an advert in the build up to a new season in the way we previously did or how others do (the Lions RU tour, Darts, Ashes Cricket, F1, Football etc). We get promotion on the 24 hour news channel but it rarely goes beyond that these days. Sky do their bit to an extent but it’s certainly nowhere near where it has been. I don’t believe we will get a TV increase, in fact, it will go down, I’ve never suggested otherwise but our clubs have not really moved with the times and looked to move with the advances of technology. That is a must. The OurLeague app is crap, its used for very little and massively under utilised, for example

Ultimately, we need enough teams or a certain standard. We need clubs with assets, clubs with pathways, clubs ran well and utilising technology and changes to consumption of sports. We don’t have that now and we’re not getting it by watering down an already watered down competition. I was at London v Oldham at the weekend, there wasn’t more than 500 there and no more than 40 Oldham fans. There’s a possibility that next time the two play each other, it’s a top flight game and the attendance certainly will not be more than 5,000 fans.

I’m not against new teams but we don’t need more than 12 clubs (arguably 10).
What do you mean a "race to the bottom"?

Super League is already miles behind the NRL.

12 clubs taking a £200k hit on their central distribution is not going to move the dial in any significant way. We are talking about relatively small numbers here. For a Leeds Rhinos the central distribution is about 17% of their total revenue. They would be taking about a 1.5% revenue hit. This is an amount in the short term they feel they can make up for in terms of losing the Loop fixtures.

In terms of Sky, what are the solutions? If Sky don't want to broadcast it because of cost, they don't have to broadcast it. Having very game broadcast is a newfound thing, this won't in anyway materially move the needle for them.

In terms of quality, that is subjective. The NRL is played at inconvenient times, very few people are not watching Super League in the UK because of quality. What is important is more competition equity and arguably that's where the Super League falls down, the lack of diversity of winners is the issue here really. The second important thing is the quality of facilities and the perception it gives off from tv. Some in the Super League do this well, some don't. Believe it or not, that's pretty standard across most sports leagues and that includes the NRL.

This just isn't the case on Sky sorry. Sky show a shed load of Super League, it has ALWAYS been dwarfed by football though. What's your solution here? At best you are hoping for the NRL to ride in with DAZN. DAZN has f all subscribers in the UK and their platform is probably one of the most complained about by users out there (ask NFL Gamepass users). I am not suggesting there isn't another course on tv but this just strikes me as wishing rather than reality.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
75,589
..and Salford not paying players and cancelling games. When's that last happened in a top sports league?!
It’s an anomaly, one off. Only someone really dumb would judge the health of a comp by one clubs fortunes. It’s not that long ago Newcastle and Gold Coast went bust. They got lucky and had the nrl to bail them out.
 
Last edited:

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
75,589

London Broncos can confirm we are one of the 12 clubs who have lodged an interest in joining the proposed expansion of Betfred Super League to 14 clubs in 2026.​

We are currently in the process of putting together a strong presentation that will be submitted by the September 12th deadline with the outcome announced on October 16th​

#WeAreLondon​

 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
75,589
The Championship's big four of the Bradford Bulls, Oldham RLFC, Toulouse Olympique and the York Knights have all applied for a place in the 2026 Super League.

Because of their expected decreases in gradings; Super League sides Castleford Tigers, Huddersfield Giants, Hull FC and the Salford Red Devils have also been told to apply for a place in the 2026 Super League.

Because there is a high chance of a current Grade B Super League side being outside the top 12 teams on October 16th.

They would then join the Championship clubs who have applied to join the Super League through the independent selection process chaired by Lord Caine.
 

Taking The Two

Juniors
Messages
898
What do you mean a "race to the bottom"?

Super League is already miles behind the NRL.

12 clubs taking a £200k hit on their central distribution is not going to move the dial in any significant way. We are talking about relatively small numbers here. For a Leeds Rhinos the central distribution is about 17% of their total revenue. They would be taking about a 1.5% revenue hit. This is an amount in the short term they feel they can make up for in terms of losing the Loop fixtures.

In terms of Sky, what are the solutions? If Sky don't want to broadcast it because of cost, they don't have to broadcast it. Having very game broadcast is a newfound thing, this won't in anyway materially move the needle for them.

In terms of quality, that is subjective. The NRL is played at inconvenient times, very few people are not watching Super League in the UK because of quality. What is important is more competition equity and arguably that's where the Super League falls down, the lack of diversity of winners is the issue here really. The second important thing is the quality of facilities and the perception it gives off from tv. Some in the Super League do this well, some don't. Believe it or not, that's pretty standard across most sports leagues and that includes the NRL.

This just isn't the case on Sky sorry. Sky show a shed load of Super League, it has ALWAYS been dwarfed by football though. What's your solution here? At best you are hoping for the NRL to ride in with DAZN. DAZN has f all subscribers in the UK and their platform is probably one of the most complained about by users out there (ask NFL Gamepass users). I am not suggesting there isn't another course on tv but this just strikes me as wishing rather than reality.

Plenty of nonsense to digest in this.

It’s not your Leeds’, Saints’ or Wigan’s that are affected. It’s the dross that facilitate a race to bottom. Cutting revenue to crap teams keeps them crap and only serves to keep the new sides crap as well. The existing crap doesn’t improve, their attendances, income and revenue are hit and the new wave of crap live the same existence for about 2 seasons till we change again. More teams doesn’t make the league stronger. It doesn’t drive revenue growth. It’s a bizarre way of doing things.

Rather than worry what we get from Sky or what we get from the French, IMG or whoever, rugby league in the UK never begins by looking inwards at what we give out and I think that’s the issue here. We have to improve our quality and entertainment value and that’s down to the clubs to do, not Sky to finance and then we worry about it. It’s amazing Sky want to show anything at all when the clubs live in the dark ages, let alone that they show all of it. A senior figure at St Helens, from memory it was the Commercial Manager, bemoaned Social Media and Sky for “the lack of people at games”, which is utterly frightening from a senior figure of a major club. That’s where we are at with some of them. They view new and different as the enemy and not to be trusted or worked with.

You keep banging on about someone else taking on the Sky deal. Only you are saying this. I’m not. I recognise that we aren’t going to get much better and that I don’t see why any broadcaster would want any part of it, if I’m honest. The OurLeague app is crap, though. When it’s shown games, it’s been crap, there’s little to no short or long form content on there that you cannot find on any number of mainstream websites and no incentive to even bother looking at the app when you can get the same ‘news’ on any social media platform in seconds. That is where UK RL is at with content. The most novel content we’ve had in a while was a grown man passing comment on another grown man’s boxer shorts and “throw some shape, baby” as tactical advice. We are an absolute eternity behind not just other sports but amateur content creators, let alone other forms of entertainment.

Ultimately, 14 teams doesn’t solve rugby league’s issues. It’s probably not even in the top ten issues or the most pressing. If we are honest, it takes away one issue (loop fixtures) and replaces it with two - how do you keep fans and clubs engaged for the final half/third of a season when they have nothing to play for and seven or eight team play-offs rewarding sides either or both completely bang average or a team in the bottom half of the table and giving them a chance of playing and winning a Grand Final.

Rugby League in the UK needs to look at itself and what it wants to be, how it’s going to be that and how you actually achieve that rather than rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic in the form of structure changes. We’re, yet again, going after the cosmetic issues when the problems are far more than skin deep.
 

Gobsmacked

First Grade
Messages
5,920
So more waffle then? Rebranding Salford to Manchester is not going to solve anything.
It took nearly 30 years to move the needle meaningfuly with the Storm in Melbourne but they're flying now.
How do you think it would have happened if they were the Frankston Storm?

In the way things are done in the English game, you'll change the name, check in 3 months and say it didn't work..

Manchester United didn't get big in 3 months and neither will Manchester Reds but if you want a club ALL of Manchester can get behind and grow for the next 30 years..
Maybe start by calling them f**king Manchester..
 

Taking The Two

Juniors
Messages
898
So, yeah, the top tier clubs have decided that the loop fixtures are the games ill and voted to remove them. The clubs outside of the top tier have voted to include them in their structure. Rugby League never fails…
 

Pippen94

First Grade
Messages
9,072
It’s an anomaly, one off. Only someone really dumb would judge the health of a comp by one clubs fortunes. It’s not that long ago Newcastle and Gold Coast went bust. They got lucky and had the nrl to bail them out.

When's the last time it's happened to NRL, AFL, NBA, NFL..?!
 

Pippen94

First Grade
Messages
9,072
The Championship's big four of the Bradford Bulls, Oldham RLFC, Toulouse Olympique and the York Knights have all applied for a place in the 2026 Super League.

Because of their expected decreases in gradings; Super League sides Castleford Tigers, Huddersfield Giants, Hull FC and the Salford Red Devils have also been told to apply for a place in the 2026 Super League.

Because there is a high chance of a current Grade B Super League side being outside the top 12 teams on October 16th.

They would then join the Championship clubs who have applied to join the Super League through the independent selection process chaired by Lord Caine.

2026 is going to be disaster even worse than 2025.
 
Messages
3,049
So, yeah, the top tier clubs have decided that the loop fixtures are the games ill and voted to remove them. The clubs outside of the top tier have voted to include them in their structure. Rugby League never fails…

Excuse the silly question, but could someone explain to a layman such as myself what exactly a loop fixture is?

Fascinating footy drivel is the super league chat!
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
75,589

Doncaster RLFC can confirm that we are one of the 12 clubs who have lodged an interest in joining the expanded Betfred Super League in 2026.​

Carl Hall, chief executive said “We are working with the team internally to put together a strong presentation that we will submit prior to the September 12 deadline."

The outcome will be announced on October 16.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
75,589
Excuse the silly question, but could someone explain to a layman such as myself what exactly a loop fixture is?

Fascinating footy drivel is the super league chat!
As there are on,y 12 clubs and clubs get most revenue from game day activity in SL so clubs want more than 22 Fixtures. This means you play everyone home and away and then 5 teams a third time. This is what is known as loop fixtures.
 

Gobsmacked

First Grade
Messages
5,920
As there are on,y 12 clubs and clubs get most revenue from game day activity in SL so clubs want more than 22 Fixtures. This means you play everyone home and away and then 5 teams a third time. This is what is known as loop fixtures.
So instead of playing a team a 3rd time, they'll be playing championship level clubs that they'll flog.
Do you really think that it's better?

These clubs might actually stand a chance if they had a year to prepare.
As it is, they'll have a decline in support in their first year as they get flogged every week, going broke by year 2.

It can't be the loop fixture, nobody's that dumb.
Or maybe they are...

Please help NRL !!!
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
75,589
So instead of playing a team a 3rd time, they'll be playing championship level clubs that they'll flog.
Do you really think that it's better?

These clubs might actually stand a chance if they had a year to prepare.
As it is, they'll have a decline in support in their first year as they get flogged every week, going broke by year 2.

It can't be the loop fixture, nobody's that dumb.
Or maybe they are...

Please help NRL !!!
You’re making some mighty big assumptions.
Might be a bit lop sided between top and bottom for a season or two but if within 5 years that gap has closed and most teams are competitive then it’s a big plus for the comp and hopefully the next tv deal with more content and viewers. Sport success is cyclical.
 

Pippen94

First Grade
Messages
9,072

Doncaster RLFC can confirm that we are one of the 12 clubs who have lodged an interest in joining the expanded Betfred Super League in 2026.​

Carl Hall, chief executive said “We are working with the team internally to put together a strong presentation that we will submit prior to the September 12 deadline."

The outcome will be announced on October 16.

Lol
 
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