2020 R15 Sat - Titans 16-36 Raiders @ Cbus Super

[AlwaysGreen]

The fact that we signed Croker for 4 more years for about $600000 a year tells me that our recruitment department is f**ked.

The bloke is loyal which is pretty easy if you're getting paid big bucks and you're a serviceable first grade centre at best.

 

[Tommy Smith]

Stopped there... Wighton is on near close enough to 900k from next year. It's a reported 3.5m deal over 4 years.

And the idea that we can just on George who is drastically underpaid and expect him to see out a contract... have you been living under a f**king rock for the last 5 years?
That's not how this shit works anymore my guy. We'll be upgrading Goerge Williams in the next 6-12 months or he'll be playing for another club. Welcome to 2020. The players have the power and if they want out, they're out. End of story. We're not trying to f**k around with our very good halfback

We could find the money to keep Cotric at 650k but we didnt value him at that, and nor did anyone else in the league but the bulldogs, he went begging to the roosters for a deal close to it so he could be in sydney and party and they said "yeah... nah... we're good"... but in your defence, they've been a beacon of salary cap managemnet in the last 5 years... They've gotten very good value out of contracts, them and the titans, neck and neck on paying huge money for name value players in non essential positons and those contracts working out.

Look at the roosters and storm, the most dominant teams of this period... they dont pay wingers and frankly between Vunivalu, Koro, Addo Carr and Fergo they've had players on the same level, and better than Cotric... and they let em walk.... ask yourself why. They get it.

Its' not that wingers dont matter, it's simple economics. Supply and demand... you can find wingers anywhere. Maybe not as good as Cotric, but as said, you can probably back yourself to get 75% of his output for 50% of less of his contract value. The roosters let Fergo walk and picked up Morris on the cheap because everyone thought he was done... Fergo is a better player but given their wage disparity its hard to argue they didnt correctly assess the situation from a cap position.

And maybe Semi isnt the one, but if he's not, maybe it's HSS, or its Timeko, and if not, we'll find someone because wingers are very important but also the easiest position to find.

Good post.

Even Matt Ikuvalu has been a beast for us on the wing and he's on close to a minimum contract. Strong carries and a great finisher.

You can hands down win a comp with an Ikuvalu on the wing, but you can't without a Keary or Wighton/George Williams type in the halves.

 

[nick87]

Cotric is a better player for sure and certain but from a cap perspective is sooner get into contact with Ikuvalu‘s manager and offer him 250k to come play for the raiders than pay Cotric 650k

That’s the perfect example of getting a guy who’d give us 70-80% of what Cotric can for less than half the cost.

if next year we’re suffering majorly from losing Cotric it will be a failure of the decisions on who to replace him with and probably a miss evaluation on the young kids, more than it will be a failure in decision making not to keep Cotric at 650k imo

 

[BadnMean]

Wighton is on 4 years, $3 million contract. Was reported as if it might be 900k a year early but he took a lower rate for an extra year & then writers add in potential rep payments when they report his income, not the contract value. So you can "stop right here" all you want, because you're wrong on that. @nick87

https://www.nrl.com/news/2020/02/12/wighton-re-signs-with-raiders-until-end-of-2024/
https://aboutregional.com.au/wighton-set-to-become-a-lifelong-raider-with-new-four-year-contract/

Yeah, I'd make Cotric about our 4th highest paid player behind Papa, Jack, Hodgo. That's about where he sits in talent imo. Yours seems to differ.

I've explain to you that the Raiders are set up different so Roosters or Storm who have Papenhuyzen or Tedesco at the back. And you kindly mentioned the other strike wingers they have. We have a bargain basement FB whose (contract you ALSO tried to overstate by $150k).
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/leagu...poised-for-16-million-extension-with-canberra

You're making some sensible points- the basic 101 of pub guys saying how cap management it done but you're mis-stating contract values to try and do it & then not actually seeing how they Raiders have room AND NEED because of the FB we have gone with (defensive model, cheaper). If it makes you feel better about losing him, ok. But it's cookie cutter stuff & not all true. As shown above.

As for GWilly screaming & demanding to be out of his contract- well Hodgo & Whitehead didn't & the fans were up in arms that Bateman did... so it's not every player. It's also a false logic to suggest we wouldn't have room ro upgrade GWilly if we needed it- a lot of moving parts there.

The idea the Raiders can't afford to have a single $650k player in our backline without torching our cap & ending up like the Dogs or Titans is a furphy. Most clubs DO have one. In fact, often one on 700-900k or more. We have a 350k FB so we can have a decent winger instead if we like. In fact, we need to have one.

You need to look at the specific situation not just trot out the generic cap argument. I've explained simple ways we could save the extra cash to keep him; ditch Raps & Oldfield, bring in kids on near minimum as backups. THAT's a far smarter use of cap- move on past it players, try juniors on nothing for value & keep your best players.

 

[nick87]

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/st...hton signed a four-year,until the end of 2024.

CT has it a 3.5m and they're probably best sourced on all things Raiders. FWIW rep payments come out of our cap, so if he's getting rep money (and he will) we end up paying for that too
Re CNK i never specified the money he was on, just that his new deal is live next year and it is a substancial upgrade on what we're paying him now. So no idea what on earth you're talking about there.

George Williams will be upgraded soon, he wont have to scream about it. He's currently one of the lowest paid NRL starting halves. The club is not going to f**k around risking a Bateman situation with arguably the best halfback we've had at the club since Stuart. That's just how this works now.

Hodgson and Whitehead were upgraded pretty soon after they arrived. Bateman was upgrade twice before Moses got involved and whispered sweet nothings in his ear. They got done nice and easily, without any screaming, so too will George Williams (as long as Issac Moses and his team arent involved!)

As for the rest, you're either missing the point or being deliberately obtuse. It's not that we can't afford Cotric at 650k, we could pay him a million if we liked. The simple reality of this is the only club willing to give him that sort of money was the bulldogs. No one club sniffed that offer, every other successful club is happy to maintain a level of cap flexibility and put their resources into other positions which are hard to find, over drastically overpaying for a positon that is easy to fill.

What you're advocating is a return to the way we used to handle our cap.. that being we'd have a good young kid we developed, he'd get an over market offer to go elsewhere and we'd match it just to avoid losing him. It was a terrible way of doing business then and it's a terrible way of doing it now.

The club evaluated him at 500k a year, made him a good strong offer. The bulldogs, the cap geniuses that they are, decided to offer 30% above to make a splash... good luck to him and them, but im glad the club is managing their cap more like the teams who have been dominating the competition over a return to the dark times which landed us not surprisingly where the Bulldogs are right now.

 

[GAZF]

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6626595/wighton-puts-glory-before-cash/#:~:text=Wighton signed a four-year,until the end of 2024.

CT has it a 3.5m and they're probably best sourced on all things Raiders. FWIW rep payments come out of our cap, so if he's getting rep money (and he will) we end up paying for that too
Re CNK i never specified the money he was on, just that his new deal is live next year and it is a substancial upgrade on what we're paying him now. So no idea what on earth you're talking about there.

George Williams will be upgraded soon, he wont have to scream about it. He's currently one of the lowest paid NRL starting halves. The club is not going to f**k around risking a Bateman situation with arguably the best halfback we've had at the club since Stuart. That's just how this works now.

Hodgson and Whitehead were upgraded pretty soon after they arrived. Bateman was upgrade twice before Moses got involved and whispered sweet nothings in his ear. They got done nice and easily, without any screaming, so too will George Williams (as long as Issac Moses and his team arent involved!)

As for the rest, you're either missing the point or being deliberately obtuse. It's not that we can't afford Cotric at 650k, we could pay him a million if we liked. The simple reality of this is the only club willing to give him that sort of money was the bulldogs. No one club sniffed that offer, every other successful club is happy to maintain a level of cap flexibility and put their resources into other positions which are hard to find, over drastically overpaying for a positon that is easy to fill.

What you're advocating is a return to the way we used to handle our cap.. that being we'd have a good young kid we developed, he'd get an over market offer to go elsewhere and we'd match it just to avoid losing him. It was a terrible way of doing business then and it's a terrible way of doing it now.

The club evaluated him at 500k a year, made him a good strong offer. The bulldogs, the cap geniuses that they are, decided to offer 30% above to make a splash... good luck to him and them, but im glad the club is managing their cap more like the teams who have been dominating the competition over a return to the dark times which landed us not surprisingly where the Bulldogs are right now.

The club sticking to its guns on player valuations has been the most promising aspect of Canberra's operations in 2020. It improves our chances of being in the mix in the medium term, rather than burning brightly once every three to four seasons. No guarantees with this new approach, but sentimentality hardly ever wins premierships these days.

 

[Greenfields]

Yeah never break the bank for wingers. Keep the money in the spine.

 

[shear_joy9]

The fact that we signed Croker for 4 more years for about $600000 a year tells me that our recruitment department is f**ked.

The bloke is loyal which is pretty easy if you're getting paid big bucks and you're a serviceable first grade centre at best.

He’s having a horrendous season. Surely his goal kicking is the only thing keeping him in the team.

He must be the worst player in the comp at taking runs inside your own half. Half the time he loses metres. The only player on the field that made less metres yesterday was Peats who went off injured.

Yes his defence has improved from the turnstile he used to be but he still has regular defensive f**kups. Brimson brushed him away like a fly to score

 

[mongoose]

our backline really needs a boost next year. Croker and Rapana will be a year older, Scott turned out to be a dud and doesn't look like improving. Cotric gone... Simonson is not the answer on the wing either....

 

[BadnMean]

our backline really needs a boost next year. Croker and Rapana will be a year older, Scott turned out to be a dud and doesn't look like improving. Cotric gone... Simonson is not the answer on the wing either....

No room to pay backline recruits according to the purists here mate. Not like Joey Leilua did anything for the club in his years. Waste of money all his tries & yards apparently. Should have stuck with local juniors. What success was he ever part of? How did our cap survive having a single well paid member of the back 5? It was a disaster apparently. Can't be done. Hush your mouth.