2023 Eight Nations

[docbrown]

Hypothetical 2023 Eight Nations.

Personally, I’d swap Lebanon for France just because France needs the practice for 2025.

Pool A: Australia, England, PNG, Fiji
Pool B: New Zealand, France, Tonga, Samoa

Play own pool teams once and one team from the other pool once.

Week 1 (cross pool games): AUS v NZ, ENG v FRA, PNG v TON, FIJ v SAM
Week 2: AUS v PNG, ENG v FIJ, NZ v SAM, FRA v TON
Week 3: AUS v ENG, PNG v FIJ, NZ v FRA, TON v SAM
Week 4: AUS v FIJ, PNG v ENG, NZ v TON, FRA v SAM
Week 5: POOL A winner v POOL B winner

Locations:
4 AUS pool games in Australia (Melbourne, Townsville/Gold Coast, Perth, Sydney)
3 NZ pool games in New Zealand (Wellington, Christchurch, Auckland)
3 PNG pool games in PNG (Port Moresby)
2 FIJ pool games in Fiji (versus SAM & ENG) (Suva)
TON v SAM in New Zealand (Tauranga or Napier)
ENG v FRA in England before leaving for Southern Hemisphere
FRA v TON and FRA v SAM played as undercard double-header games with other matches
Final: Brisbane

 

[England87]

Great minds think alike.

Any future international tournament involving more than four teams must have France involved in some capacity. The upside is huge on their development. The ROI is like Japan, Argentina and Italy in rugby.

 

[Billythekid]

For me the actual format doesn't really matter, i've read all sorts of different suggestions and they're all fine. What we need is just more international games and that's going to be hard when people involved in rugby league on every level in Australia seem to be against that and it's hard to see that changing.

 

[Last Week]

I think I'd prefer 6 Nations.

Australia, NZ, England and France.

The other two spots would be decided by where the tournament was held.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Top 8 at the WC play an 8 Nations Tournament two years after each WC while the rest of the nations play qualifiers.

2 Pools of Four and a Final - done in 4 weeks, gives the IRL another IP to sell and gives nations another major hit out between world cups.

As the international scene matures have...

Year 1 - Euros, Oceania Cup, America's Championships, MEA Championships doubling as 8 Nations Qualifiers

Year 2 - 8 Nations Tournament

Year 3 - Euros, Oceania Cup, America's Championships, MEA Championships doubling as WC Qualifiers

Year 4 WC

 

[yakstorm]

Agree that there needs to be some sort of major nations tournament outside of World Cup year's, whether that be 5, 6, 8 or more, I'm less fussy about, so long as it includes France.

France needs the opportunities to improve internationally, as well the game needs a second competitive NH nation.

I wouldn't mind the concept potentially incorporating cross tournament games as well. ie. If Aus, NZ and Tonga are all in it, there is no reason that their games can't count towards an Oceania Cup as well a 6 or 8 nations.

 

[docbrown]

Great minds think alike.

Any future international tournament involving more than four teams must have France involved in some capacity. The upside is huge on their development. The ROI is like Japan, Argentina and Italy in rugby.

Yes I think one of the best ways to build them up is to give them consistent competition and a clear cycle of games to work towards.

 

[docbrown]

For me the actual format doesn't really matter,

I was trying to come up with a format that fits in a five week window that involves 8 countries, has top tier games to market (AUS v ENG & NZ etc) and provides for the top three teams to play at least 2-3 matches each against the bottom 5 sides.

 

[docbrown]

Because I'm procrastinating at work here's how a 2024 8 Nations in Europe could go down:

Pool A: AUS, SAM, WAL, lebanese

Pool B: ENG, NZ, FRA, IRE

Week 1: AUS v SAM, WAL v lebanese, ENG v FRA, IRE v NZ

Week 2 Cross-Pool Games: ENG v AUS, SAM v NZ, WAL v IRE, FRA v lebanese

Week 3: WAL v AUS, lebanese v SAM, ENG v IRE, FRA v NZ

Week 4: lebanese v AUS, WAL v SAM, ENG v NZ, FRA v IRE

Week 5: Pool A Winner vs Pool B Winner

 

[Last Week]

I was trying to come up with a format that fits in a five week window that involves 8 countries, has top tier games to market (AUS v ENG & NZ etc) and provides for the top three teams to play at least 2-3 matches each against the bottom 5 sides.

I see why you want to stick to a 5 week window (player fatigue and season length),but it's worth noting that the last time we had a 4 Nations, the NRL season was a week longer.

This time around the NRL season will be a week shorter and players will have byes through the season.

Also when we had a Tri Series, that went for 7 weeks including a final.

There's scope for a 6 week international tournament at the end of most years.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

I see why you want to stick to a 5 week window (player fatigue and season length),but it's worth noting that the last time we had a 4 Nations, the NRL season was a week longer.

This time around the NRL season will be a week shorter and players will have byes through the season.

Also when we had a Tri Series, that went for 7 weeks including a final.

There's scope for a 6 week international tournament at the end of most years.

I agree, hopefully the NRL and RLPA agrees too. It all comes down to money, if the international game makes shitloads of money and the players and national federations get paid handsomely for playing, the 'overplaying' argument goes away quickly. The players clearly are up for it because most of them at the world cup are playing for the love ($2,500 one-off payment if I remember correctly)

 

[jim_57]

Personally I think 8 is getting a bit too close to World Cup numbers, 4 is too few now though. I’d like to see it return once or twice a World Cup cycle with 6 teams. Australia, England & NZ permanent. France & PNG auto-qualify as co-host when the tournament is in their region then 2 qualifiers.

Simple 4 year cycle for post season major tournaments:

Year 1 - World Cup.
Year 2 - 6 Nations (Australia, NZ & PNG host).
3 - Northern Hemisphere & Southern Hemisphere Cups (essentially Oceania & Euro cups but expanded to include some African, Americas and Asian sides across the lower tiers except and Lebanon top tier NH).
4 - 6 Nations (England & France host).

I doubt we’ll get that but that’s what I’d like to see.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Personally I think 8 is getting a bit too close to World Cup numbers, 4 is too few now though. I’d like to see it return once or twice a World Cup cycle with 6 teams. Australia, England & NZ permanent. France & PNG auto-qualify as co-host when the tournament is in their region then 2 qualifiers.

Simple 4 year cycle for post season major tournaments:

Year 1 - World Cup.
Year 2 - 6 Nations (Australia, NZ & PNG host).
3 - Northern Hemisphere & Southern Hemisphere Cups (essentially Oceania & Euro cups but expanded to include some African, Americas and Asian sides across the lower tiers except and Lebanon top tier NH).
4 - 6 Nations (England & France host).

I doubt we’ll get that but that’s what I’d like to see.

I'd be happy with a 6 nations, but I'd put in some qualifying tournaments to give us serious comps each year.

It'd go something like this:

Year 1: Oceania Cup, Euro Cup, MEA Championships, Americas Championships doubling as 6 Nations qualifiers
- Top 2 from Euros (e.g. England & France) qualify for 6 nations, 3rd (Ireland) & 4th (Italy) go to playoff
- Top 2 from Oceania (e.g. Aus & NZ) qualify for 6 nations, 3rd (Samoa) & 4th (Tonga) go to playoff
- MEA winners (Lebanon) qualify for playoff
- Americas winners (Jamaica) qualify for playoff
- Top 2 from playoff qualify for 6 nations (Samoa & Tonga)

Year 2: Six Nations

Year 3: Oceania Cup, Euro Cup, MEA Championships, Americas Championships doubling as WC qualifiers

Year 4: WC

 

[docbrown]

I see why you want to stick to a 5 week window (player fatigue and season length),but it's worth noting that the last time we had a 4 Nations, the NRL season was a week longer.

This time around the NRL season will be a week shorter and players will have byes through the season.

Also when we had a Tri Series, that went for 7 weeks including a final.

There's scope for a 6 week international tournament at the end of most years.

Yes I proposed it so that it would fit in a 5 week window.

However, it is easily modified. You can just increase the number of cross-pool round weeks by however many you want. At the moment it's 1 but it could be 2 or 3.

 

[docbrown]

Personally I think 8 is getting a bit too close to World Cup numbers, 4 is too few now though. I’d like to see it return once or twice a World Cup cycle with 6 teams.

Well it's the Big 3, France and then 4 either Pacific or European teams.

If you do a top 6 you're cutting 2 off those teams out. So say for a Pacific tournament, in mine you've got PNG, Fiji, Samoa and Tonga. In yours you lose two of them. I think it serves those countries better to be included.

 

[Last Week]

Well it's the Big 3, France and then 4 either Pacific or European teams.

If you do a top 6 you're cutting 2 off those teams out. So say for a Pacific tournament, in mine you've got PNG, Fiji, Samoa and Tonga. In yours you lose two of them. I think it serves those countries better to be included.

That may be, but that's not necessarily a bad thing because it would make qualifying more meaningful and competitive.

 

[wain]

i agree 8 is too many and takes the shine off WC, also I like to keep some rarity of playing NH teams most years.
I still like the idea of tours to fill that void.

What about a 6 nations in each hemisphere?
example:
Pool A (hosted in Aus)
Aus
PNG
Fiji

Pool B (hosted in NZ)
NZ
Sam
Ton

2 weeks of pool matches, then 1v2 (cross-pool) for semis, then Final.
You could even have 3v3 and loser of semis matches to build the semis and GF into double headers.

Then repeat this in NH, with Eng and Fra both hosting pools.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

i agree 8 is too many and takes the shine off WC, also I like to keep some rarity of playing NH teams most years.
I still like the idea of tours to fill that void.

What about a 6 nations in each hemisphere?
example:
Pool A (hosted in Aus)
Aus
PNG
Fiji

Pool B (hosted in NZ)
NZ
Sam
Ton

2 weeks of pool matches, then 1v2 (cross-pool) for semis, then Final.
You could even have 3v3 and loser of semis matches to build the semis and GF into double headers.

Then repeat this in NH, with Eng and Fra both hosting pools.

This is pretty much what will happen. The IRL will announce the Oceania and Euro Cups to recommence after the WC.

However, as we saw at the World Cup the Northern Hemesphere nations, especially England need more matches against the Southerners to prepare for world cups in the years between them.

 

[wain]

This is pretty much what will happen. The IRL will announce the Oceania and Euro Cups to recommence after the WC.

However, as we saw at the World Cup the Northern Hemesphere nations, especially England need more matches against the Southerners to prepare for world cups in the years between them.

Agreed, but my thought would be to still have tours also. And to be fair…having some regular hit outs yearly, even if only against France is still better than what we are doing currently.

 

[siv]

Lebanon should be considered a Euro not Africa team until a Asia confederation is ready

It will help toughen up the Europe

They are a stones throw away from Greece & Turkey

Africa will emerge soon to be Europes equal