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2024 TV and Streaming Ratings Discussion

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,520
As a kayo subscriber I got a free month subscription for binge, it’s sht and full of ads! needless to say it’s cancelled.

For what I used to pay for my foxtel set top box platinum package 5 years ago I can still get kayo, Disney, Netflix and prime for much less now!
Why anyone still has a set top box service is beyond me!
 
Messages
800
From 2025, Foxtel will pay, on average, an extra $111 million a year more for the AFL rights than it has paid for the past five years – from an average of $307 million to $418 million. This is not money that is lying around.
Foxtel need a helping hand. Where on earth will they find the money?

Or to put it another way, how big will the hit to NRL revenues be?
 

Vlad59

Bench
Messages
4,048
I missed this last week, sorry if already posted

Foxtel faces its streaming apocalypse

Once the country’s most profitable media group, Foxtel is losing subscribers and is facing a mega-sports rights bill. Will it make it through?

Sam Buckingham-Jones Media and marketing reporter

Apr 25, 2024 – 7.00pm

It’s hard to believe now, but Foxtel was once Australia’s most profitable media company. A decade ago, the cable television broadcaster reached nearly one in every three households in the country. Its annual earnings were close to $1 billion.

But over the past decade, Foxtel has been forced to massively reinvent itself for the Netflix era – walking a tightrope of building a new, low-margin streaming business like Kayo and Binge while keeping as many people as possible paying for its high-margin set-top boxes. It is a balance becoming more and more difficult.

The company’s earnings are set to shrink by a further $150 million over the next three years to $390 million in the 2026 financial year, analysts forecast. A company once feted for a $2 billion valuation and a public listing now faces an uncertain future.

Some time next year, likely before the end of March, it is expected that Warner Bros Discovery will launch its own streaming platform, Max, in Australia – stripping Foxtel and Binge of immensely valuable HBO content such as Succession, Game of Thrones and Euphoria. Likewise, wrestling entertainment empire WWE, also on Binge, signed a $US5 billion ($7.8 billion) global deal with Netflix that the US streamer says will soon include Australia. Binge’s managing director, Amanda Laing, has resigned.

The end of these deals will put some money back into Foxtel’s pockets. But the AFL’s record $4.5 billion broadcast deal with Foxtel and Seven West Media kicks in next year, adding about $100 million more to Foxtel’s annual bills. Meanwhile, its sports subscriber numbers on Kayo have flatlined.

Foxtel has 3.1 million streaming subscribers across Kayo, Binge and Foxtel Now. But those streaming customers each add very little revenue. They make up 66 per cent of Foxtel’s “customer base”, but just 23 per cent of its revenue. Foxtel’s 1.5 million set-top box customers contribute 63 per cent of its revenue.

When Foxtel and Seven signed a $1.5 billion deal with Cricket Australia last year, Delany said it was worth every cent. “We maintained those top five tier one sports,” he said at the time. “We’ve got significant momentum, and we intend to keep it up.”

The deal worked out to be $140 million a year for seven years, a jump of almost $20 million a year on the previous six-year deal.

The mammoth agreement it signed with the AFL months earlier, however, was worth a lot more.

From 2025, Foxtel will pay, on average, an extra $111 million a year more for the AFL rights than it has paid for the past five years – from an average of $307 million to $418 million. This is not money that is lying around.

Foxtel’s key commercial sports executive, Rebecca McCloy, told The Australian last month that it had signed 175 deals with 120 different sports partners and agents over the past 12 months.

Macquarie analysts estimate Kayo generated $454 million in revenue for the group last year, compared with $1.7 billion from traditional Foxtel customers. The price of the Kayo Basic product jumped 17 per cent to $35 in February, although those kinds of increases are hard to pull off repeatedly.

Delany says the deal with the AFL is different from next year. “The super Saturday is quite different. For eight to 10 weeks at the start of the season, the only place you’ll be able to watch live AFL in the country will be via Kayo or Foxtel. It’s almost double that for Melbourne. And so that was part of the trade.”

After the football seasons end, some people cancel their Kayo subscriptions. Kayo has fallen every December quarter since its launch. The summer cricket slate has a big impact on cancellation numbers – if England or India are playing Australia, churn is far lower. This past summer, it was Pakistan and the West Indies.

Over the next year or so, the NRL will tap broadcasters to begin to renegotiate its own deal, extended during the pandemic and worth about $220 million a year to Foxtel. In other words, for three years, the NRL – which some argue is more valuable to a broadcaster – will be paid hundreds of millions less than the AFL. It will expect a similar sized deal to its rival football code.

“Given they are lucrative at $85 a subscriber, this is unlikely to be recouped via Kayo and Binge,” Macquarie’s Darren Leung says. “This ultimately leads to a vicious cycle where lower revenue means more cost out – and likely in content (we colloquially call this cutting at the bone). That means fewer subscribers because the content isn’t attractive, which leads to more cost out.”

Kayo appears to have hit a ceiling with a subscriber base of 1.2 million to 1.4 million people. “You can see this with flat year-on-year subscribers. It moves quarter-on-quarter mainly due to seasonality associated with sports,” Leung adds.


Fox overpaid for cricket and fumbling and is now paying the cost. Fine by me. How this affects us is all that matters
 

docbrown

Coach
Messages
11,842
I've said it before but as other streamers improve their content packages, the appeal of Foxtel diminishes further. As the article says, they then start cutting down on content buys to reduce costs, creating a negative feedback loop.

If Foxtel lose the NRL, over the longer term they'll be overtaken by other streamers, diminishing their standing in the marketplace. AFL and NRL are the only two sports that generate a big steady subscriber base for months on end. Even cricket, which likes to think of itself as the national sport despite its shrinking popularity, doesn't keep the numbers at the same level over the summer.
 

docbrown

Coach
Messages
11,842
Foxtel need a helping hand. Where on earth will they find the money?

Or to put it another way, how big will the hit to NRL revenues be?
That's their problem. At some point NRL may simply become a loss leader to prevent a massive subscribe churn.

Or to put it another, how big will the hit to Foxtel revenues be if they lose the majority of the NRL subscriber base to another streamer?
 

beave

Coach
Messages
15,671
As a kayo subscriber I got a free month subscription for binge, it’s sht and full of ads! needless to say it’s cancelled.

For what I used to pay for my foxtel set top box platinum package 5 years ago I can still get kayo, Disney, Netflix and prime for much less now!
Why anyone still has a set top box service is beyond me!
Kayo sucks ball bags.

I've been to mates houses that have Kayo with NBN for footy nights and the service has been unreliable and clunky. I persist with a foxtel box because I would absolutely lose my shit if mid game it kept cutting out or not being able to log back in.

I have a 4K projector in the media room on a 110inch screen and up until this year Kayo hasn't been able to do 4K, i haven't seen Kayo's 4K product but if it's anything to go by with their regular service I'm sure it sucks ball bag as well.
 

Wb1234

Immortal
Messages
33,576
I've said it before but as other streamers improve their content packages, the appeal of Foxtel diminishes further. As the article says, they then start cutting down on content buys to reduce costs, creating a negative feedback loop.

If Foxtel lose the NRL, over the longer term they'll be overtaken by other streamers, diminishing their standing in the marketplace. AFL and NRL are the only two sports that generate a big steady subscriber base for months on end. Even cricket, which likes to think of itself as the national sport despite its shrinking popularity, doesn't keep the numbers at the same level over the summer.
Nrl is the only product that matters for pay tv

the fight for thr pay tv rights will lay the platform for nrl finally getting market value for its rights and not subsidising afl

longer term fox won’t be able to afford both

if Stan do get the pay tv rights Fox will bleed money for five years and need parent news ltd to stay alive
 
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Canard

Immortal
Messages
35,607
Nrl is the only product that matters for pay tv

the fight for thr pay tv rights will lay the platform for nrl finally getting market value for its rights and not subsidising afl

longer term fox won’t be able to afford both

if Stan do get the pay tv rights Fox will bleed money for five years and need parent news ltd to stay alive
For the 10000000th time, Stan is VOD.

And as evidenced by those Kayo numbers, unless they start charging $85+ a month for subscription they aren't going to recoup enough money.
 

Frank Burge

Juniors
Messages
272
For the 10000000th time, Stan is VOD.

And as evidenced by those Kayo numbers, unless they start charging $85+ a month for subscription they aren't going to recoup enough money.
If they pick up 1m subscribers at $35 per month x 8 months is $280m plus advertising and 9 are showing 3 games a week I think there would be money to be made ( I think a million subscribers would be on the low end could be closer to 1.5-2m for 9 games live a week
 

Canard

Immortal
Messages
35,607
If they pick up 1m subscribers at $35 per month x 8 months is $280m plus advertising and 9 are showing 3 games a week I think there would be money to be made ( I think a million subscribers would be on the low end could be closer to 1.5-2m for 9 games live a week
So why is Kayo shitting the bed with 1.2 to 1.5M subs?

I'm also not a fan of Ch9 having a monopoly on the TV, anyway.

And Stan UI sucks arse, and will drive Boomers away.
 
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Frank Burge

Juniors
Messages
272
Because they are paying $400m for afl $220m for NRL $200m for cricket plus all the other shows and sports im sure house of the dragon and such aren’t cheap
 

Frank Burge

Juniors
Messages
272
Our family spend $120+ a month on streaming service including Foxtel iq5 at $70 per month for full package but if it came to crunch I would drop every service bar Netflix for wife and daughter and keep whoever has NRL rights
 

Frank Burge

Juniors
Messages
272
So why is Kayo shitting the bed with 1.2 to 1.5M subs?

I'm also not a fan of Ch9 having a monopoly on the TV, anyway.

And Stan UI sucks arse, and will drive Boomers away.
I would like the NRL to get their worth so they can spend more on juniors and expansion. If AFL are getting an extra $150-200m to keep spreading there cult we will be in trouble, might not be tomorrow. So if that means 9 getting everything then I will put up with it but we can’t keep getting underpaid and expect to catch up
 

Canard

Immortal
Messages
35,607
I would like the NRL to get their worth so they can spend more on juniors and expansion. If AFL are getting an extra $150-200m to keep spreading there cult we will be in trouble, might not be tomorrow. So if that means 9 getting everything then I will put up with it but we can’t keep getting underpaid and expect to catch up
No argument there, I just worry about 9s product and its propensity to shit talk our game.

And that Stan is a sports black hole currently. (It's wear sports go to die)
 

Frank Burge

Juniors
Messages
272
No argument there, I just worry about 9s product and its propensity to shit talk our game.

And that Stan is a sports black hole currently. (It's wear sports go to die)
Union was already dead before it went there and nrl would still have fta coverage , not hidden behind a pay curtain. We have generational support and a long season that keeps fans consuming the product until their team is out of the running, then we have hardcore fans like most on here watching 6-8 games per week. 9 talk shit to generate clicks as the old saying goes any publicity is good publicity. Hopefully if they have the whole product they will feel the need to invest in it with good commentary and positive coverage , but that would all be 2nd to market value.
 

reanimate

Bench
Messages
3,862
The other advantage of Foxtel over the streamers is the existing infrastructure in pubs and clubs. Most pubs and clubs have a Foxtel subscription and the RL channel is the click of a button away. Moving to a streamer means they have to subscribe to a new service, work out how to get it shown on their screens etc.

Pubs and clubs can also get Foxtel via satellite, the NRL would need to look into what solutions are out there to get NRL via a streamer into venues that depend on satellite.
 

Wb1234

Immortal
Messages
33,576
The other advantage of Foxtel over the streamers is the existing infrastructure in pubs and clubs. Most pubs and clubs have a Foxtel subscription and the RL channel is the click of a button away. Moving to a streamer means they have to subscribe to a new service, work out how to get it shown on their screens etc.

Pubs and clubs can also get Foxtel via satellite, the NRL would need to look into what solutions are out there to get NRL via a streamer into venues that depend on satellite.
Pubs and clubs would follow the nrl (in naw qld and Canberra)
 

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