What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

2nd T20I: Australia v India at Melbourne on Jan 29, 2016

ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
Sporting capital of the world :)

I see your sporting capital and raise you a Colosseum.

Small blinds are long levers, big blinds are no ground is big enough to contain, buy in is all the toys.

Shuffle up the pitch and deal.
 
Last edited:

vvvrulz

Coach
Messages
13,629
Thought I'd warm up this game thread with this gem from the latest Mark Nicholas article

The greatest fearless innings must be Dhoni's in the 2011 World Cup final. Very few start the job and finish it too. Those that do are gold.

The BCCI must be paying him well.
 

ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
Well Yuvraj and Gambhir are not MS Dhoni.

Yuvraj got man of tournament, though.

India hardly need to overrate Dhoni these days. Kohli is a special pyjama talent.

I love watching him play, almost as much as ABDV.
 
Last edited:

undertaker

Coach
Messages
11,074
Thought I'd warm up this game thread with this gem from the latest Mark Nicholas article

The greatest fearless innings must be Dhoni's in the 2011 World Cup final. Very few start the job and finish it too. Those that do are gold.

The BCCI must be paying him well.


Well Yuvraj and Gambhir are not MS Dhoni.

Yuvraj got man of tournament, though.

India hardly need to overrate Dhoni these days. Kohli is a special pyjama talent.

I love watching him play, almost as much as ABDV.

Nickelarse whoring himself out to the BCCI, no surprises there. The sooner his visa is cancelled, the better. And when was he commentating on the BBL final? Didn't see nor hear him on Ch10.

Hate it how everytime the 2011 World Cup Final is mentioned, Dhoni somehow gets all the credit for India's win when it was Ghambir who set up India's innings. Dhoni wasn't even the best player on ground that day.
 

ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
Nickelarse whoring himself out to the BCCI, no surprises there. The sooner his visa is cancelled, the better. And when was he commentating on the BBL final? Didn't see nor hear him on Ch10.

Hate it how everytime the 2011 World Cup Final is mentioned, Dhoni somehow gets all the credit for India's win when it was Ghambir who set up India's innings. Dhoni wasn't even the best player on ground that day.

Yes, but you are not the astute critic than that the commentators and selectors of those prizes and commentary are aiming for and towards.

Professional sports needs heroes, just because some neville nobody or young buck has a better game (even if we can clearly see has more talent and sporting sense oozing through their finger tips), if a hero has a good game, they will get the glory to perpetuate mythical talent.

New Zealand fans had to put up with a year of Ian Smith and Simon Doull telling us Brendon McCullum was the next reincarnation of Viv Richards, while completely oblivious to the fact that Kane Williamson before our very eyes was doing his own impression of Don Bradman.

No disrespect or direct comparison to the Don intended.

It holds true for all sports. Those prize selections are aimed at the lowest conmon denominator and hero worship. Part of the commentators job is to build and market the game's profile. Often at the expense of being critical and discerning. We call "bullsh*t" but it may in fact help and cause a new generation participate in the game or be fans.

I cop a lot of crap for being critical of Michael Bevan. But if you can see the problem with Dhoni being overrated, good player, no doubt, but overrated nevertheless, you would see the problem with Bevan though my eyes too.

I'd take Maxwell over Bevan any day in an ODI team to bat at 5 or 6. Fortunately for you guys, those same people who dropped Bevan, your senior Australian critics appreciate Maxwell's ability.
 
Last edited:

vvvrulz

Coach
Messages
13,629
Nickelarse whoring himself out to the BCCI, no surprises there. The sooner his visa is cancelled, the better. And when was he commentating on the BBL final? Didn't see nor hear him on Ch10.

Hate it how everytime the 2011 World Cup Final is mentioned, Dhoni somehow gets all the credit for India's win when it was Ghambir who set up India's innings. Dhoni wasn't even the best player on ground that day.

Gambhir and Kohli turned the match from a tricky spot, against a benign attack other than Malinga. Murali was running on fumes, Mendis was dropped for no reason. RRR was well under control when Dhoni came out.

It's the strangest thing ever, I think it's hands down the most overrated innings of all time.
They talk about it in the same vein as Ponting and de Silva's world cup final efforts.
 

ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
It's the strangest thing ever, I think it's hands down the most overrated innings of all time.
They talk about it in the same vein as Ponting and de Silva's world cup final efforts.

Not even remotely close to Lloyd, Viv, Collis King, Velleta (Boon got motm), Ponting, De Silva or Gillys'.

Truth be told, not even comparable to Khan's and Ul Haq's in 1992 in terms of significance in getting runs needed for victory.

But if a game does not have a Adam Gilchrist, Clive Lloyd or a Viv Richards hero succeeding or a Collis King freakish innings, then one has to be made, otherwise the event was nothing special compared to previous versions of the match.
 
Last edited:

Twizzle

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
154,198
So we are resting Smudger and Warner from this game tonight.

From a T20 ffs.

This rotation is getting f**king ridiculous, not that I give a rats arse about a T/20 game and it seems neither do the Aussies, but I'm sure these guys spend more time than this in the nets.

And still they cannot find room for Oozie with our best 2 batsmen out.
 

Hutty1986

Immortal
Messages
34,034
Yes, but you are not the astute critic than that the commentators and selectors of those prizes and commentary are aiming for and towards.

Professional sports needs heroes, just because some neville nobody or young buck has a better game (even if we can clearly see has more talent and sporting sense oozing through their finger tips), if a hero has a good game, they will get the glory to perpetuate mythical talent.

New Zealand fans had to put up with a year of Ian Smith and Simon Doull telling us Brendon McCullum was the next reincarnation of Viv Richards, while completely oblivious to the fact that Kane Williamson before our very eyes was doing his own impression of Don Bradman.

No disrespect or direct comparison to the Don intended.

It holds true for all sports. Those prize selections are aimed at the lowest conmon denominator and hero worship. Part of the commentators job is to build and market the game's profile. Often at the expense of being critical and discerning. We call "bullsh*t" but it may in fact help and cause a new generation participate in the game or be fans.

I cop a lot of crap for being critical of Michael Bevan. But if you can see the problem with Dhoni being overrated, good player, no doubt, but overrated nevertheless, you would see the problem with Bevan though my eyes too.

I'd take Maxwell over Bevan any day in an ODI team to bat at 5 or 6. Fortunately for you guys, those same people who dropped Bevan, your senior Australian critics appreciate Maxwell's ability.

It's not that I don't rate Maxwell, he's slowly turning around my opinion of him but...why?
 

ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
It's not that I don't rate Maxwell, he's slowly turning around my opinion of him but...why?

So many reasons.

First but not least, it comes down to this, Glen Maxwell's 36.25 at 126.40 will win more games for Straya than Bevan's 53 at 74.

Want proof?

Okay.

Bevan scored 6912 runs in 232 matches (29.7 runs per match). Maxwell 1704 in 59 matches (28.88 runs per match).

The difference is Bevan takes 40 balls of the allotted 300 balls to get his 29.7.

Maxwell only takes less than 23 balls! That is near a 3 over difference between the two batsmen. That is huge, those 18 balls can be used for more runs.

Bevan hated getting out. Listen to the former players, he would throw a tantrum for getting dismissed - shower in his clothes and pads that kind of thing. But a not out does not do the team any good at all (as long as 50 overs are batted). It only boosts that batsman's average. The team only gets the benefit of real runs scored. That is why I like a runs per match average - and the captains and coaches put the batting order together generally for sound reasons, high SR openers for the power plays, high percentage century makers either open or bat 3 and 4.

Maxwell values the team more than his own wicket. That is what you want in a 5 and 6. You do not want them to be selfish. You want them to either, maximise and cash in on the innings that the top order has laid the base for, or set the road to rebuilding.

But here is the problem with early cricket, a rebuild to a respectable score of 190-220 - will lose you more games than it will win (even if McGrath and Warne are in the attack). Maxwell's way to rebuild is to counter attack - and while the team may not pass 190-220 as a result as often, it will win more games because 275-300+ is always an option with a big innings from Maxwell, regardless of how the top order crashed and burned. While Maxwell is in, and the earlier he gets in, the bigger headache it can be for the opposition. His wicket is coveted.

This is all before Maxwell's playing of novel and modern shots that are incredibly difficult to set a field for and drive bowlers to wanting to pull their hair out, and his ability in the field, or his greater contribution as a bowler (Maxwell goes 5.5 runs an over when he scores at 7.56 runs per over himself at a similar average to his batting average. Bevan went for 5.05 runs per over when scoring at 4.45 runs per over himself - again both at relatively similar average to their own batting averages).

Basically Maxwell's contribution to a match is sorely undervalued - and Bevan's is ridiculously overvalued.

Players like Bevan and Dhoni who in chases or score setting, just bat for run accumulation and leaving the boundary hitting to the very last minute, sure they score runs themselves and build up their average, but the players batting behind them are under such greater RRR pressure to get the game done when they fail. When they suceed they're labelled as legends of the game, great chasers yadda yadda, but when they fail - they still score about 50 runs - but they've cost the team a good chance at winning by putting the tail enders are stupid pressure.

Maxwell, as soon as he starts batting, is reducing RRR pressure for those that follow and bat with him. Whether a long innings or a short innings, he inevitably assists getting RRR to managable levels.

Nothing takes more wickets in ODI cricket than scoreboard and run rate pressures. Regardless of Warney and Pidgeon.

The funny thing is, I am sure you are aware of Jayasuriya's importance to Sri Lanka - but his batting average was only 32. Gilchrist - 35.9. These are both players I have ahead of Bevan. If Bevan was as good a batsman as commonly claimed, he would have batted at higher at 3 and 4. When the selectors did put him there, he dropped his SR further, 59 batting at 3 and 69.5 at number 4.

Seems a little selfish. And not good for the team.

Yes, Maxwell has the luxury of possibly a stronger tail (although this is debatable because Bevan played mostly in a Gilchrist era and Harvey and Symonds were playing), but that stronger tail is in part a result of wanting Maxwell at 5. That tail also has more balls to work with due to Maxwell's quick scoring in a first innings, and less RRR pressure in a second innings. It is a trade off between say a middle order of Smith, Bailey, S Marsh - but the bowling is also strengthened with that stronger tail with additional options. It is not as though Bevan's era was without Mark Waugh's contribution with the ball. (Mark Waugh comfortably averages more runs per game than Bevan at a slightly faster SR, much better bowling stats. Steve Waugh could bowl a few too.)

Glen Maxwell is a class act, even if not in the same realms as ABDV. He is a genuine match winner. All opposition fear him. He can turn a match on its head - and does so regularly. It is no war of attrition, nurdle it around with self preservation and taking it deep and hoping to get lucky, no it is an outright blitzkreig. It is no Afridi either - there is genuine fear that this will last more than 5 overs, and could go ten, 15 - game over if any more than that.

I firmly believe that average runs per match, or even innings is more indicative of a players limited overs contribution to a team than a batting average boosted with meaningless not outs that do the team no favors. And batting orders are set to give the best batsmen the most balls to bat (new ball tradeoff with openers conceded but even then Tendulkar opened - and most top players bat 3, 4 at the very least). Bevan was not thought to be that good by the selectors. When he was thought to be possibly that good - he scored even slower!

There is far less of a need for a #5 batsman to be there at the end, than there is for him to get the RRR to a level where the allrounders and tail enders can just nurdle the ball around for victory.

The way he can carry his head high, when he knows that is reverses are widely loathed (regardless of how many runs he scores from them), and that he will take those 0 and sub 20 scores, in the pursuit of getting the SR through the roof to finish off Smith, Bailey and Warner centuries before him - intending to take the score to 350+ is remarkable. He could drop it down a few gears, and coast his way - get a cushy mid 40's average. who knows with not outs get it past 50 like Dhoni and Bevan - but no - he puts the team scoreboard first.

And this is all in addition to the fact that Bevan played in the strongest ODI team batting line up that the world has ever seen bar perhaps the Clive Lloyd era Windies and the Indian teams who could not bowl fast.

Bevan batted first innings 115 times, and was not out 37 times, roughly a third of his innings, striking at less than 80. That is inexcusable. It is selfish. It cost Australia runs. Runs win games. The batting average was over 50, but the average per game was a mere 33 or 35 per innings. Hussey had a lower batting average of 49 in first innings, and was dismissed more often, 24% not out, but more runs per match and per innings at 37, with a strike rate over 90. Maxwell is fairly close on runs per match batting first to Bevan at over 31, with only one not out for about 3% of not outs, but his SR is 130. Who is doing best for the team? Rank them. Maxwell's 31 runs take less than 24 balls. Bevan's 33 runs take 43 balls! Maxwell can bat not out in the second innings, and does do so at 35%, but his strike rate is 120 - chasing! Bevan is 67. Imagine what scoreboard pressure the side is under when he gets out in the second innings. Maxwell is out averaging and striking Hussey in the second innings. Yes, the great Mike Hussey. Maxwell average 44 despite being not out on 28% of the time, Huss only 42, with not out about a third of the time. Bevan is not out 37% of the time, averaging over 50 but a SR in the 60s. For me, it easy an decision to have Maxwell ahead of Bevan. Now I am not attempting any conclusion between Hussey and Maxwell, but between Maxwell and Bevan, it is an easy decision to take Maxwell any day of the week.

People need to get over the mindset of a player getting out being bad when advancing SR, when they bat at 5, and there is more batting to follow. They're helping the team in doing so, not there own average. Teams do not get the benefit of not outs, first innings especially!

That is my opinion.

And while irrelevant as to who was better, the biggest hurdle with Maxwell is that cricket is an entertainment product, even when rooting for the opposition to beat Australia, it is hard to find a person who does not want to watch Maxwell bat. I bet even in England, the cues at the bar either at the ground or the clubhouse, shorten when he is at the crease. But this is due in large to his SR and shot selections, the relevance of which I have discussed. I would not be surprised for Maxwell to increase his batting average and maintain his current SR. He is very talented.
 
Last edited:

no name

Referee
Messages
20,167
http://www.cricket.com.au/news/indi...tralia-t20-virat-kohli-steve-smith/2016-01-28

India player sanctioned for send-off
28 January 2016

cricket.com.au
Debutant allrounder Pandya penalised for celebration following maiden wicket in Australia Day T20
India's fast bowling allrounder Hardik Pandya has been sanctioned for giving Australia's Chris Lynn a send-off in the Australia Day KFC T20 INTL match in Adelaide. Called in for his international debut Pandya had a less than auspicious start to his international career, bowling an 11-ball opening over that included his first three deliveries being called wides.
WATCH: Hardik gives Lynn a send off with wild celebration Pandya was given an official reprimand for breaching the International Cricket Council's Code of Conduct. He was sanctioned under the clause which relates to “Using language, actions or gestures which disparage or which could provoke an aggressive reaction from a batsman upon his/her dismissal during an International Match”. In the 15th over of Australia's ultimately unsuccessful run-chase, Lynn had dispatched Pandya for a monster 107m straight six into the Adelaide Oval stands. On the last ball of that over Lynn laced a wide delivery that stung the hands of Yuvraj Singh who completed the catch, sparking Pandya's wild celebration. The on-field umpires Simon Fry and John Ward levelled the charge against Pandya and ICC match referee Jeff Crowe imposed the sanction.
WATCH: Hardik's 11-ball horror debut over There was no word from the ICC whether Virat Kohli had been charged for his send-off of Australia's Steve Smith after he made a 'talking' hand gesture after taking a catch. Smith had chipped a leading edge from Ravi Jadeja to Kohli at cover. He had spent the over chatting to Nine's Wide World of Sports commentators from the middle as is common practice for Australian players in T20 matches. Smith said he believed the type of send-off he received from Virat Kohli was "not really on" once a batsman had been dismissed. Quick Single: Smith responds to Kohli send-off "(Kohli) gets pretty emotional out there, doesn't he?" Smith told Fox Sports on Wednesday night. "I don't think you need to do that kind of thing when someone gets out. "It's fine to have a little bit of banter when you're out in the field, but when someone's out I don't really think that's really on."
WATCH: Kohli's reaction after Smith chips catch Kohli is known as one of the most combative players in world cricket and has engaged in some light-hearted banter with Australian allrounder James Faulkner on more than one occasion on this tour. Speaking last week, the Indian superstar says he doesn't walk out to bat with a specific plan to engage with the Australian players. Quick Single: Kohli says Faulkner banter 'just for fun' "I just like to make a bit of fun of any kind of argument out on the field," he said before the Australia Day clash. "It's very different from the last few instances (in Australia); this time it's been more cheeky and fun statements rather than guys swearing at each other or using bad words. Which I think is fair enough on the field. "People watching should have some fun as well when they're watching the game. I think it makes the sport more entertaining. "There's no harm in having a little cheeky chat with your opponent sometimes." Allan Border Medallist David Warner agreed with Smith that interacting with commentators out in the middle is a regular part of the modern game, saying it provides invaluable insight for the viewers at home. "We've been doing that for the last couple of years and obviously it's not in the interests of Channel 9 to disturb us when we're out there and for us to be dismissed," Warner said. "It's upon us to be responsible and professional. "It's about entertainment. We've seen it during the BBL and we've done it plenty of times on Channel 9. Quick Single: Warner plays down commentary influence "It's a great insight for people at home to understand how we deal with situations when we're out there. For me, I've been doing it all the time and I feel no added pressure. "It's great that I can give people communication about what I'm actually trying to achieve out there in different situations." Earlier on Tuesday, Southern Stars pair Alyssa Healy and Alex Blackwell had provided one of the highlights of their match against India by providing ball-by-ball commentary of the 18th over of their innings.
WATCH: Healy, Blackwell commentate their own carnage The duo were both mic'd up and delivered first-hand commentary of the latter stages of the innings, with the pair adding 19 runs in that 18th over, including two sixes from Healy. Melbourne Stars batsman Kevin Pietersen had also provided an entertaining insight when mic'd up during his superb innings against the Sydney Thunder during the group stages of BBL|05. As far back as 2007, former wicketkeeper Adam Gilchrist commentated himself on the Nine Network hitting three sixes in an over during a T20 match against England at the SCG.
 

Timbo

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
20,281
Bancroft has been called up with Wade to leave for NZ early.

Hopefully the beginning of the end for scissorhands.
 

vvvrulz

Coach
Messages
13,629
Not sure why they sanctioned this kid, he was just celebrating his maiden wicket

Nothing in it imo

Looks like he mouthed a bit of an f-bomb (maybe), but it was absolutely harmless
Going too far with these crazy punishments, much much worse gets swept under the carpet.
 

TheParraboy

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
69,397
Australia Team
AJ Finch*, SE Marsh, CA Lynn, GJ Maxwell, SR Watson, MS Wade†, JP Faulkner, JW Hastings, SM Boland, AJ Tye, NM Lyon


Finch won toss, we are bowling first
 

Latest posts

Top