3-2-1 v Bulldogs

[Manu Vatuvei]

who has been moved to hooker and is out with an ACL injury for the rest of the season. And how can you say Tevaga is in the same class as Radley with a straight face?

Shifting the goalposts. You said Tevaga is too small to play lock. Also, Radley has started every game he has played this year at lock, and even if he alternates between lock and hooker, I assume you're not trying to say that the game has changed so much from 2019 to 2020 that Radley somehow can't survive at lock anymore.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

I totally forgot that 90kg Cameron Murray is the incumbent NSW and Australian lock too. Odd argument to claim small locks can't survive anymore when the 2 boom locks to emerge in the last 2 or 3 years are both smaller than Jazz.

 

[Big Marn]

Shifting the goalposts. You said Tevaga is too small to play lock. Also, Radley has started every game he has played this year at lock, and even if he alternates between lock and hooker, I assume you're not trying to say that the game has changed so much from 2019 to 2020 that Radley somehow can't survive at lock anymore.

I'm allowing Radley to be the exception to the rule in this argument, because hes a fantastic player. Much like Dallas Johnson was. But these players are few and far between. I dont have Tevaga in the same solar system as Radley ability wise.
Also, the other thing going against Tevaga is he isnt surrounded by a pack like the Roosters which surely gives Radley a leg up against tiring opposition. It would be interesting to see how Radley would do in our pack. Unfortunately the reality is Tevaga plays in our pack and Radley plays in the Roosters'.

 

[Big Marn]

I totally forgot that 90kg Cameron Murray is the incumbent NSW and Australian lock too. Odd argument to claim small locks can't survive anymore when the 2 boom locks to emerge in the last 2 or 3 years are both smaller than Jazz.

The Rabbits arent in the top 4. My argument was the top 4 teams. Since Rabbits are 7th and Radley isnt in the team due to season ending injury, my argument is valid. Taukiaho is Lock for Roosters at present point in time. 108 kilo, 187cm tall. Otherwise its Liu 107kg, 187cm tall.
Maybe Rabbits need a bigger lock to make the jump to top 4?
And those 2 players are swimming against the trend if you clicked on my link earlier.
Seriously, you have Tevaga in the same category as Radley and Murray in terms of ability? I dont.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

The Rabbits arent in the top 4. My argument was the top 4 teams. Since Rabbits are 7th and Radley isnt in the team due to season ending injury, my argument is valid. Taukiaho is Lock for Roosters at present point in time. 108 kilo, 187cm tall. Otherwise its Liu 107kg, 187cm tall.
Maybe Rabbits need a bigger lock to make the jump to top 4?
And those 2 players are swimming against the trend if you clicked on my link earlier.
Seriously, you have Tevaga in the same category as Radley and Murray in terms of ability? I dont.

No I think they are better players than him, but I think you are kidding yourself trying to say Radley or Murray aren't top locks because they happen to be injured at the moment or because the Rabbitohs aren't in the top 4.

It's obvious 90-94kg locks can succeed in the modern game (far from being on the way out, I would actually say that Radley/Murray/Tevaga are a distinct style of lock who have emerged in the last few years). Why don't you just say that you don't rate Jazz instead of trying to explain away Murray and Radley's existence?

 

[JJ]

TBH I don't believe Murray is 90 kg - I know it's what the profiles say...

Think it's right to say that the smaller lock is back - Murray is like the return of Clyde, Pearce or Lindner... but he's just 22, he'll get bigger, Radley too - think Tevaga is a few inches shorter, so probably won't carry and extra few kilos as well as they will.

FWIW, I am still not sure what to make of Tevaga - but I do agree that I think I am swayed by the dumb errors/penalties, but at the same time I forgive a bigger bloke (Hetherington) for the same and worse...

I guess I am now thinking Tevaga is fine at 13, or from the bench - but Murray and Radley (while much more complete players) have the advantage of playing with props that offer a lot more go forward. We might be development in him next year on that basis

 

[Big Marn]

No I think they are better players than him, but I think you are kidding yourself trying to say Radley or Murray aren't top locks because they happen to be injured at the moment or because the Rabbitohs aren't in the top 4.

It's obvious 90-94kg locks can succeed in the modern game (far from being on the way out, I would actually say that Radley/Murray/Tevaga are a distinct style of lock who have emerged in the last few years). Why don't you just say that you don't rate Jazz instead of trying to explain away Murray and Radley's existence?

I dont rate Jazz. edit. to be fair, i dont rate him highly. hes ok. just not what i want in that position.
Interestingly, the Rabbits havent beaten any top 8 teams this year, which supports the overarching trend that you need a big middle to succeed in this competition, especially if you dont have other players in your team that are world class like the Roosters do.
The top coach in the comp so far this season Cleary switched Yeo to lock at the beginning of the season to marvellous effect. 195cm tall. 106 Kg
Eels, Nathan Brown - superb player 185cm. 104 kilos.
Storm - Dale finucane -188cm 102kg.
Already mentioned Liu and Taukiaho as the lock options for the roosters.

 

[Meth]

JTB was making 10m per hitup

Not in his first stint. He was pretty much MIA

 

[Big Marn]

Not in his first stint. He was pretty much MIA

as were the rest of the pack. Warriors cast offs like Ogden and RFM were rolling through us. Only when our bench came on did we get back into the game. Even Lawton was bog average in that first stint.
I see JTB as a bench prop in the long run unless he keeps developing. I think i mentioned a few weeks ago that it would have been a good idea to give him a week off. Pretty tough on young props in their first season. We just have no cattle to rest him.

 

[Meth]

Congratulations Jack Murchie

Murchie 40
Nikorima 33
Tuivasa Sheck 27

Turner 6.5
Tevaga 3.5
Blair 2
Hiku 1
Perham 1

19 voted

 

[Fufu Andronez]

Jazz is a footballer, he can offload, has no issues taking dirty carries, putting his body on the line. He's as rough as guts and doesn't mind getting into a stink. Exactly what we need in our pack.

As JJ mentioned the dumb penalty/error was the thing holding him back. Once he gets that under control he will be a very good player. He is on his way now.

A pack is a pack, no point in having 7, 6 foot 100+ kilo athletes. As the top sides have demonstrated, having a diverse pack is the way to go and Jazz gives us a point of difference.

I just find it laughable that people continually question jazz when we have imposters like Burr and Blair in the pack

 

[TheDMC]

Yep I think Jazz brings quite a lot, and as others have said, cut out the dumb shit and he is even more valuable.

We need a barnstorming big body in the forward pack though - either a giant ala a NAS or Klemmer, or one with some footwork like SST. That would help immensely. We need that regardless of whether Jazz is there or not. Our forward pack is operating pretty well atm despite its limitations, but lacks punch/game breakers.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

who has been moved to hooker and is out with an ACL injury for the rest of the season. And how can you say Tevaga is in the same class as Radley with a straight face?

Why is it relevant that he's out for the rest of the season? He still was the lock in those two premierships. Tevaga is not as good as Radley, although Radley is allowed to look even better than he is in a star-studded line-up.

JHe should be playing hooker or nowhere if we want to get out of our bottom 8 funk in the long run.

His service at hooker is pretty woeful. That's not an option, he held us back playing there. We have a couple more big guys coming next year, BMM, Evans, Paasi back, Bunty back, JTB with another year in him (he's cooked this year) - there's absolutely zero reason we cannot carry a lock/interchange player who at whatever size he is, brings metres/tackles and the intangibles of being an energy guy who will do whatever you ask him to. I just think it's incredibly lazy to say he's not big so he's of no use. He is NRL standard.

 

[TheDMC]

Argument over Jazz

3 Manu Vatuvei
2 Penrose Warrior
-1 Big Marn (sorry dude, wasn't your best effort)

Entertaining argument, quite heated, but didn't boil over.

 

[Big Marn]

Argument over Jazz

3 Manu Vatuvei
2 Penrose Warrior
-1 Big Marn (sorry dude, wasn't your best effort)

Entertaining argument, quite heated, but didn't boil over.

Hey, I'm just getting my second wind. Stay Tuned!

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Hey, I'm just getting my second wind. Stay Tuned!

Haha! Always welcomed brother. Nothing personal just a group of people with different opinions they're prepared to battle over. Play on

 

[Meth]

Would be an incredibly dull forum if we all agreed about everything

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

Argument over Jazz

3 Manu Vatuvei
2 Penrose Warrior
-1 Big Marn (sorry dude, wasn't your best effort)

Entertaining argument, quite heated, but didn't boil over.

LOL, I’ve toiled for 17 years for kudos like this!