3-2-1 vs Panthers

[vvvrulz]

By Tomkins own high standards that has been a horror run.

It's certainly been the worst year of his entire career and stupid mistakes has never been part of that career so yeah horror run.

Apples to oranges mate, Tomkins was one of the best players in the ESL and I think its fair to say he will never reach those kinds of heights as an NRL player.

I'm regarding this as Tomkins debut NRL season and judging him based on what I've seen on the park this year. Everything before that was a different competition. Its analogous to Fish being a superstar in lower grades, once you take the step up the standards change completely and its a fresh start.

He got points from me for a much improved and generally solid performance, but his game over the weekend was still nothing truly outstanding.

 

[vvvrulz]

Sounds strange as a Warriors fan to be saying things are looking good... they are, but I still think we're a tick below the best - who are Manly, Souths, Roosters...

Mate I'll take top four after a few seasons of fail.

 

[JJ]

Mate I'll take top four after a few seasons of fail.

Don't see us top 4 tbh, would be nice though. The fact that we're a chance for the 8 is a positive... the way we're playing we're looking good.

 

[TheDMC]

Yeah slim pickings on top 4.

Also nothing to indicate we are in the same 'league' as roosters, manly, or souths.

Nothing much to indicate we are better than Penrith, Bulldogs, Eels.

Plenty of room for improvement over the next few months and even if with good improvement, unless Roosters or Manly decimated by injuries, no way we will be as good as them this year.

Still, a good finish to the season and form brought into the finals, anything can happen...

 

[sup42]

Apples to oranges mate, Tomkins was one of the best players in the ESL and I think its fair to say he will never reach those kinds of heights as an NRL player.

I'm regarding this as Tomkins debut NRL season and judging him based on what I've seen on the park this year. Everything before that was a different competition. Its analogous to Fish being a superstar in lower grades, once you take the step up the standards change completely and its a fresh start.

He got points from me for a much improved and generally solid performance, but his game over the weekend was still nothing truly outstanding.

Wot your not getting is that the unforced errors ( so the word unforced by definition means it has nothing to do with external forces or pressure.....your argument about the NRL accordingly is impossible to apply....I've been trying to explain this point.....)

Tomkins has been out of form.....and the thing we agree on is he has been struggling in other areas which are entirely to do with the NRL being more difficult.

Do you watch the ESL ?

I do.

I also watch the NRL extensively.

I can tell you this for free.

In head to head clashes with these inferior ESL teams ( of whoTomkins is the best player of a generation ).

The NRL do not dominate them in the WCC.

I know people argue that it's a one off.

But if you understand Statistics a one off no longer applies as a scientific argument if you take a longditudinal sample.....the trend is that the very best teams in the ESL are close to the best teams in the NRL.

Irrestpective of whether those same top ESL teams get to play clubs that the Vulcans would give a hiding.

Tomkins and his mates pushed the NRL stacked Kiwis to the 78th minute....this has been going on over a century.

The Poms record over Australia is superior to ours.

Tomkins is a quality player from one of the best Rugby league clubs in the world. The reasons he is struggling are as much about adjusting to the Warriors as his loss of form.

The rest is the bashing he's getting in the hard NRL defence.

If people imagine that Tomkins comes from a team where unforced clown errors like we have seen this season are the norm for Wigans marquee player....they haven't watched Wigan.

Do people realise that Wigan used Bellamy's model under Maguire ?

Their current coach Shaun Wane was schooled in the same systems ?

Have people watched the clone that is Wigan running storm plays with Storm type light forwards and one percenter backs ?

How much of a shift is that to the Warriors ( Oil and Water ).

Personally if Tomkins wants to better himself in the NRL I think he should seek an early release and go play under Bellamy in the culture he was schooled in. Melbourne would be on fire with Tomkins at 6 instead of Roberts and their other rubbish halves.

He would slot straight in...they run the same plays....and at Fb he is a poor mans Bill Slater any way ( ST in their halves would know what SLater is going to do next ).

 

[vvvrulz]

Wot your not getting is that the unforced errors ( so the word unforced by definition means it has nothing to do with external forces or pressure.....your argument about the NRL accordingly is impossible to apply....I've been trying to explain this point.....)

I think that comes down to the pressure of playing at a grade higher and not having numerous 'soft' games that the ESL presents. Tomkins has to deliver high quality footy every week for 26 weeks for the first time in his career. My argument about making a step up to another grade is very valid.

In head to head clashes with these inferior ESL teams ( of whoTomkins is the best player of a generation ).

The NRL do not dominate them in the WCC.

I know people argue that it's a one off.

Seriously don't bring up the World Club Challenge, its a joke.
The Sharks or Knights would comfortably beat every ESL team bar 2-3.

Yes the very best ESL teams could compete at NRL level, but that doesn't stop the ESL *as a whole* being vastly inferior to the NRL.

Tomkins and his mates pushed the NRL stacked Kiwis to the 78th minute....this has been going on over a century.

The Poms record over Australia is superior to ours.

The Poms ability compared to the Kiwis is completely irrelevant to this discussion.

If people imagine that Tomkins comes from a team where unforced clown errors like we have seen this season are the norm for Wigans marquee player....they haven't watched Wigan.

Do people realise that Wigan used Bellamy's model under Maguire ?

Their current coach Shaun Wane was schooled in the same systems ?

Have people watched the clone that is Wigan running storm plays with Storm type light forwards and one percenter backs ?

How much of a shift is that to the Warriors ( Oil and Water ).
.

So you're telling me the reasons Tomkins isn't carving up here is because of the Warriors and our 'school' and 'plays' ??

And did you just compare Wigan to the Melbourne Storm!?

This is just getting silly.

 

[MaxPower]

No way will the Warriors release Tomkins. Your club paid a million dollars to Wigan. They aren't going to let him go without compensation, and no one else is going to pay that kind of money for him.

 

[Benek]

Why would we want to get rid of Tomkins? He's the best fullback we've had since that one year when Locke looked good. Sure he's not perfect, but that doesn't mean he's not a huge improvement. I'll be the first to complain when he makes silly errors, but talk of letting him go to another club is ridiculous.

 

[Meth]

I don't think anyone has suggested getting rid of Tomkins, have they?

 

[tangalife]

And did you just compare Wigan to the Melbourne Storm!?

This is just getting silly.

Sorry, silly how so? He explained to you the comparisons between Wigan and the Storm, seems fair enough to me? Or do you disagree with all of that? If so can you please enlighten us instead of being dismissive and not following it up with a reason why?

The fact is, I personally, have seen Tomkins rip both NZ and Aus in international league before. This was a few years ago too. This proves he completely has the ability to make the step up a level. The real question for him, is can he do it week in week out? Perhaps not - BUT - that IS something he can absolutely get used to after a season or two.

 

[vvvrulz]

Sorry, silly how so? He explained to you the comparisons between Wigan and the Storm, seems fair enough to me? Or do you disagree with all of that? If so can you please enlighten us instead of being dismissive and not following it up with a reason why?.

Well first off, I'm not usually one to be dismissive and I almost always follow up anything I say with some sort an argument or opinion.

I didn't do it in this case because to me it seemed as I said, silly.
Silly in the sense that this thread is getting silly.

But fair game, here we go:

I don't disagree regarding game plans and structures etc. I don't claim to have watched Wigan closely enough to observe this myself but more than happy to take sup42's word for it.

However his overall conclusion was something along the lines of Tomkins faring better off in a club like Melbourne instead of the Warriors, which personally I find daft. All due respect to Wigan, a Melbourne team that's on song would crush them without too much effort. Similar game plans or not, the gap between the two clubs is huge and I don't see much merit in saying that Tomkins will do well in the Storm jersey because he did well at Wigan.

The ESL is not the NRL, whatever Tomkins did there is not particularly relevant to his career so far here.

It boils down to the same point I'm getting at here, its apples to oranges.

 

[ozbash]

The ESL is not the NRL, whatever Tomkins did there is not particularly relevant to his career so far here.

Does that apply to the Burgess bros or James Graham ?

 

[vvvrulz]

Does that apply to the Burgess bros or James Graham ?

Nothing to do with my point.

They made the transition and stepped up to this level.
Good for them, and I hope Tomkins gets there also.

Regardless of how well any of these guys went at the ESL, this is a grade up from that and some will cut the mustard and some won't. Its not a given, that's all I'm saying.

 

[TheDMC]

http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showthread.php?t=436030

Please use!

Tomkins should be released back to England. He causes too many never-ending circular debates that violate innocent threads.

 

[Izz]

:lol:

 

[Meth]

http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showthread.php?t=436030

Please use!

Tomkins should be released back to England. He causes too many never-ending circular debates that violate innocent threads.

Oh, won't somebody think of the threads!!

 

[vvvrulz]

Oh, won't somebody think of the threads!!

:lol::lol:

 

[Blair]

Having missed the game I didn't vote.

It was heartening to see Tomkins (we seem obsessed with him at the moment) right up there in the points.

Also good to hear the Leuluai won't be an automatic starter once he's fit again. That's not a bad situation, having an injured player battling to reclaim 'his' spot.

Again, I'm glad Nielson didn't get any negative points. A horror game there would have been the end of him. His job is to play solidly, nothing more or less really.

 

[Meth]

I'm glad Nielson didn't get any negative points. A horror game there would have been the end of him. His job is to play solidly, nothing more or less really.

I would say he was less than solid. It's been a pretty remarkable fall from grace for him really. From Origin player to a bloke who can't quite reliably fill in for (essentially) a rookie

 

[JJ]

Having missed the game I didn't vote.

It was heartening to see Tomkins (we seem obsessed with him at the moment) right up there in the points.
.

TBH I think the obsession is the reason for the points, he didn't have a huge blunder, so people gave him pts. He again did (IMO) make a very bad read on the Moylan try -

IMO he was solid, but not one of the top 3 Warriors on the field, not close really... that being said, that is the sort of performance we should expect every week from him...