4th ASHES TEST: @ Old Trafford, Manchester July 19-23, 2023

[Hutty1986]

An absolutely embarrassing day, and humiliating for the overrated 'captain'. He only got the job after the concerned cucks lost their minds over the storm in a teacup ball tampering shitshow 5 years ago.
Looks like some rain around on days 4/5, but certainly not enough to save this self-destructing rabble. This is going to a decider, with the poms red-hot favourites.

 

[AlwaysGreen]

Rating the test captains since AB
1. Tubby Taylor
2. Stephen Roger Waugh
3. Clarke
4. Adam Gilchrist
5. Steve Smith
6. Ponting
7. Paine
8. Shane Watson (yes! He captained for 1 test).
9. Patrick Cummins

Head for captain.

 

[Eelectrica]

Pretty much a downward trajectory. How low can we go?

 

[Slackboy72]

Rating the test captains since AB
1. Tubby Taylor
2. Stephen Roger Waugh
3. Clarke
4. Adam Gilchrist
5. Steve Smith
6. Ponting
7. Paine
8. Shane Watson (yes! He captained for 1 test).
9. Patrick Cummins

Head for captain.

I'd have Punter much higher there.

 

[Showtime]

Cummins gets the blame for this debacle and rightly so. But what about Mcdonald and the selectors?

They picked a side with only 3 specialist bowlers. They picked 2 batsmen who can bowl a few overs, they needed to be brutal and either pick Green the incumbent or Marsh, not both. Marsh scored a great hundred but that doesn't guarantee a spot in the next team if the bloke you replaced is fit. But then they love Marsh because he's a good bloke.

Then there's the continued selection of a cooked Warner. That 200 on a road against a disinterested South Africa should have been his test farewell.

Cummins field placements are being guided by the coach. The coach needs to cop the blame but he's had no scrutiny on him.

I think Warner is benefiting from a lack of decent opening bats in Australia. Harris and Bancroft are quality shield cricketers playing on roads in Australia but they’ll always struggle overseas outside of maybe South Africa.

 

[Showtime]

Rating the test captains since AB
1. Tubby Taylor
2. Stephen Roger Waugh
3. Clarke
4. Adam Gilchrist
5. Steve Smith
6. Ponting
7. Paine
8. Shane Watson (yes! He captained for 1 test).
9. Patrick Cummins

Head for captain.

I know people don’t like him but for me Clarke would almost be 1 especially tactically. Taylor, Waugh and Ponting had players like McGrath, Warne, Gilchrist at their disposal not to mention some of the other greats through that era.

Going through some of the squads at Clarke’s disposal during that period I thought he did pretty well considering he had lineups with guys like Siddle, Hilfenhaus, Agar, George Bailey and Shaun Marsh etc.

 

[bazza]

Rating the test captains since AB
1. Tubby Taylor
2. Stephen Roger Waugh
3. Clarke
4. Adam Gilchrist
5. Steve Smith
6. Ponting
7. Paine
8. Shane Watson (yes! He captained for 1 test).
9. Patrick Cummins

Head for captain.

so you think Head is throwing out great tactical ideas and getting ignored?

 

[Twizzle]

now is the time for Head

 

[TheParraboy]

My combo of Coopers Stout and endone isn't even helping

Post of the night lol

Cummins gets the blame for this debacle and rightly so. But what about Mcdonald and the selectors?

They picked a side with only 3 specialist bowlers. They picked 2 batsmen who can bowl a few overs, they needed to be brutal and either pick Green the incumbent or Marsh, not both. Marsh scored a great hundred but that doesn't guarantee a spot in the next team if the bloke you replaced is fit. But then they love Marsh because he's a good bloke.

Then there's the continued selection of a cooked Warner. That 200 on a road against a disinterested South Africa should have been his test farewell.

Cummins field placements are being guided by the coach. The coach needs to cop the blame but he's had no scrutiny on him.

Apparently was between Green and Murphy for the final spot

They went Raiders

 

[Fangs]

Clarke is probably the most underrated of captains in recent times. Too much off-field drama for the regular punter to notice what he was doing on the field.

 

[undertaker]

I know people don’t like him but for me Clarke would almost be 1 especially tactically. Taylor, Waugh and Ponting had players like McGrath, Warne, Gilchrist at their disposal not to mention some of the other greats through that era.

Going through some of the squads at Clarke’s disposal during that period I thought he did pretty well considering he had lineups with guys like Siddle, Hilfenhaus, Agar, George Bailey and Shaun Marsh etc.

100% agree with you. I'd definitely have Clarke above Ponting (in terms of captaincy).

Lyon should be thankful the start of his test career coincided with the start of Clarke's test captaincy. This was one of the main reasons he was given an extended run by the selectors and it eventually paid off. Ponting was a fast-bowlers captain who, in the post-Warne era, only used spinners as an afterthought. There is a section in this article about Jason Krejza where Krejza discussed the issues (especially from the tactical side) he encountered with Ponting and the weak as piss Aussie coach we had at the time:

Why Jason Krejza never thought he was as good as he really was

The offspinner who took a dozen wickets on debut against India 12 years ago looks back at how it all went downhill from there

www.thecricketmonthly.com

Had Lyon made his debut during Ponting's captaincy in the post-Warne era (2007-10), his test career would have gone the way of Krejza, Beer, McGain, Hauritz, Doherty et al that were permanently discarded like a used rubber by the selectors once they didn't perform well.

 

[AlwaysGreen]

My captains rating is my opinion only. But poor old Pat has to be last on anybody's list.

 

[AlwaysGreen]

so you think Head is throwing out great tactical ideas and getting ignored?

Not sure but I think he is the forward step, Smith is the backwards step.

 

[undertaker]

Once Nathan Lyon retires, I will say that the future doesn't look bright for Todd Murphy (or any other upcoming spin bowler) whilst Pat Cummins remains test captain.

Cummins obviously doesn't have much faith in Murphy, as evidenced by the last test where Murphy only bowled 2 overs in the 4th innings. Yesterday, Labuschagne and Smith should definitely been given more of a bowl once Head became easy picking for the Poms. But no, it's just this putrid obsession with short-pitched fast bowling and having fielders on the boundary when the Old Trafford pitch isn't offering the pace and bounce such as the Gabba.

In the process of having too many fielders on the boundary, giving away easy singles has been the backbreaker, as the constant rotation of the strike doesn't allow the bowlers to build pressure. Even when the Poms won the last test match by 3 wickets, they still chased down 251 scoring at more than 5 runs per over! The main reason they were able to achieve this is even when they didn't hit a boundary or a six, the batsmen were comfortable able to score easy singles, keeping the scoreboard ticking.

 

[mozza91]

My captains rating is my opinion only. But poor old Pat has to be last on anybody's list.

Tim Paine is neck and neck imo. His DRS referrals were god awful plus he was a shit player.

 

[bazza]

now is the time for Head

Friday? or any day?

 

[bazza]

Once Nathan Lyon retires, I will say that the future doesn't look bright for Todd Murphy (or any other upcoming spin bowler) whilst Pat Cummins remains test captain.

Cummins obviously doesn't have much faith in Murphy, as evidenced by the last test where Murphy only bowled 2 overs in the 4th innings. Yesterday, Labuschagne and Smith should definitely been given more of a bowl once Head became easy picking for the Poms. But no, it's just this putrid obsession with short-pitched fast bowling and having fielders on the boundary when the Old Trafford pitch isn't offering the pace and bounce such as the Gabba.

In the process of having too many fielders on the boundary, giving away easy singles has been the backbreaker, as the constant rotation of the strike doesn't allow the bowlers to build pressure. Even when the Poms won the last test match by 3 wickets, they still chased down 251 scoring at more than 5 runs per over! The main reason they were able to achieve this is even when they didn't hit a boundary or a six, the batsmen were comfortable able to score easy singles, keeping the scoreboard ticking.

the only time they built a bit of pressure was early on when there was a close in fielder in the covers and stopped Crawleys runs off good shots
would be nice to try having point and square leg up and trusting the fielders to save the runs and see what the English bats try

 

[BunniesMan]

It feels to me that our original strategy was more or less to only try containing the runs Bazball can produce. With the thinking being that their hyper aggression would give away wickets sooner or later and with defensive fields we'd get through them before they scored too much. That worked, barely, in the first 2 tests.

But all they had to do was just ever so slightly rein in the aggression by about 5%. They're making fewer completely braindead decisions and now they are getting plenty of runs, still at a very good pace, and the cheap wickets aren't falling fast enough. And in response...we have shown absolutely nothing. No hint of even a thought of a plan B. No plan to bowl less short crap, no plan to have better fields. No plan to try and aggressively make a wicket happen rather than just endlessly wait for the poms to stuff up.

Thanks to this total lack of strategic competence, we are looking at them scoring about 500 here and batting us out of the match. We will have lost a 2-0 lead and handed them all the momentum in the world heading into the deciding test.

 

[WaznTheGreat]

Did i ever mention that i hate this team?

 

[Showtime]

We’re not the most resilient team anymore so I’ve got an uneasy feeling the match will end today. Weather app says it’ll be overcast all day so I can see England adding another 100-150 quickly then rolling us.