A look back at 1990's expansion

[LeagueXIII]

The point I was making is it is dangerous to the health of the game to cull Sydney clubs and that expansion should be achieved not at the expense of Sydney clubs but in unison.

 

[Perth Red]

The point I was making is it is dangerous to the health of the game to cull Sydney clubs and that expansion should be achieved not at the expense of Sydney clubs but in unison.

Again sounds the perfect solution, except it isnt as the nrl has clearly stated for over a decade that it isn't in a position to expand and that16 clubs is likely all we will have for any foreseeable future. This is due to reasons I have outlined numerous times. So do you accept what we have is all we will have, or do you make some tough decisions in order to grow the game? It's easy to say keep everything as is and just add more clubs but it isnt going to happen based on what we have seen over the last ten years*.

The culling and mergers of the late 90's allowed us to have Melbourne and eventually GC back. If they had been even more hard nosed and worked on an 18 team comp in 1998 that kept perth, Adelaide and brisbane2 and reduced Sydney by one more club for an 18 team comp. we would have had two decades of a national comp by now and be in a position to be planning for some really exciting expansions overseas options like png or nz or elsewhere in years to come.

Ideally the 18 team 1998 comp would have been
Northern eagles in Gosford (or bears or eagles in Gosford)
Newcastle
Wests Tigers
Illawarra Dragons
Bulldogs
Eels
Panthers or Cronulla
Souths (although at the time I can see why they were deemed expendable)
Roosters

Perth
Adelaide
Melbourne
Auckland
Canberra

Broncos
Crushers
Chargers
Cowboys


* barring a complete overhaul of commission and nrl management that brings in some fresh ideas and more visionary leadership.

 

[LeagueXIII]

People need patience, league will expand again. We have to remember under News Ltd it was run on an oily rag and when Gallop was thankfully punted the game had NO money. It is now trying to build all those things as well as sustain the clubs we have. I have no doubt Perth will join the comp when the next TV deal is negotiated.

Under Arko and Quayle they had a sustained campaign of steady growth and were working towards relocating clubs in Adelaide and Melbourne. It would have been done naturally and without the damage and pain caused by super league.

 

[Diesel]

I remember in the early 90's both Tigers and Sharks played games in Melbourne and there were calls for either team to relocate there. Would've been interesting seeing how supporters in the 90's would've felt about a Tigers relocation to Melbourne compared to calls for the Tigers or Sharks to move to Perth recently.

Dragons played in Adelaide about the same time, not sure if they were earmarked for a relocation. I remember there was talk of an Adelaide Aces NSWRL/ARL club starting in 1998.

 

[axl rose]

At the same time News ltd signed a tv deal with rugby union in South Africa. You will say its coincidence. .

Interesting, Super League was a massive factor in Union finally turning professional as well.

 

[axl rose]

I think you will find the SL war gave the AFL the impetus it needed. Lockett admitted in a radio interview recently the SL war was the thing that helped the swans the most to gain appeal.

Not hard to see why. Players signing million dollars deals and saying they will be famous in China. Most test capped player of all time Meninga saying he got "nothing from the game" the list goes on. Then you have this little underdog ugly duckling of a VFL team who have been in town about 15 years. Who did they ever hurt? Sure, no-one really knew the players or much about the game but the people voted with their feet as a massive f**k you to Rugby League.

 

[Perth Red]

People need patience, league will expand again. We have to remember under News Ltd it was run on an oily rag and when Gallop was thankfully punted the game had NO money. It is now trying to build all those things as well as sustain the clubs we have. I have no doubt Perth will join the comp when the next TV deal is negotiated.

Under Arko and Quayle they had a sustained campaign of steady growth and were working towards relocating clubs in Adelaide and Melbourne. It would have been done naturally and without the damage and pain caused by super league.

Patience? We spent Ten years licking our wounds and another ten years of stagnation. Now we are told it'll be at least another 6years. And then we still have no guarantees. At this rate it will be 2050 before we have a national competition!

 

[Stallion]

I remember in the early 90's both Tigers and Sharks played games in Melbourne and there were calls for either team to relocate there. Would've been interesting seeing how supporters in the 90's would've felt about a Tigers relocation to Melbourne compared to calls for the Tigers or Sharks to move to Perth recently.

Dragons played in Adelaide about the same time, not sure if they were earmarked for a relocation. I remember there was talk of an Adelaide Aces NSWRL/ARL club starting in 1998.

To digress a little. I think Australian type names are worth the effort. For instance the 'Adelaide Dingos'. 'West Coast Wombats' etc. Just throwing some marketing ideas out there!

 

[Teddyboy]

Interesting point you bring up about the local competitions. I believe that the local competitions made a mistake by not choosing to play Saturday only football. This tact would have strengthened local clubs both culturally and player participation wise. Instead they continued on with mostly Sunday football and have lost alot of ground to other codes that play on Saturdays. Its a factor that has been sadly overlooked in this mess.

When you say local competition's playing on a Sunday is that Park Football ?

 

[Teddyboy]

Absolutely agree. The agreement made was totally against the code's progress. I still have the deep feeling that the Super league "war" was a masked and well orchestrated exercise at weakening the code and its progress in Australia. This being backed by a 'rival' code with connections at the top end of town that was concerned at the progress being achieved by the ARL in 1995.That's my gut feel.

WHATTT I hope that was isn't true but you never know maybe the AFL did have a hand in the Super League.

 

[Stallion]

Again sounds the perfect solution, except it isnt as the nrl has clearly stated for over a decade that it isn't in a position to expand and that16 clubs is likely all we will have for any foreseeable future. This is due to reasons I have outlined numerous times. So do you accept what we have is all we will have, or do you make some tough decisions in order to grow the game? It's easy to say keep everything as is and just add more clubs but it isnt going to happen based on what we have seen over the last ten years*.

The culling and mergers of the late 90's allowed us to have Melbourne and eventually GC back. If they had been even more hard nosed and worked on an 18 team comp in 1998 that kept perth, Adelaide and brisbane2 and reduced Sydney by one more club for an 18 team comp. we would have had two decades of a national comp by now and be in a position to be planning for some really exciting expansions overseas options like png or nz or elsewhere in years to come.

Ideally the 18 team 1998 comp would have been
Northern eagles in Gosford (or bears or eagles in Gosford)
Newcastle
Wests Tigers
Illawarra Dragons
Bulldogs
Eels
Panthers or Cronulla
Souths (although at the time I can see why they were deemed expendable)
Roosters

Perth
Adelaide
Melbourne
Auckland
Canberra

Broncos
Crushers
Chargers
Cowboys


* barring a complete overhaul of commission and nrl management that brings in some fresh ideas and more visionary leadership.

The Gold Coast was a perfect example of too much culling. The NRL agreeing to 14 team comp was grossly inadequate. It allowed for the weakening of tge code! Crucial aress and fan bases were being forgotten and neglected for other codes to plunder. The eroding of clubs did nothing for the game. Melbourne should have always been an expansion aim.

 

[davi]

The Gold Coast was a perfect example of too much culling. The NRL agreeing to 14 team comp was grossly inadequate. It allowed for the weakening of tge code! Crucial aress and fan bases were being forgotten and neglected for other codes to plunder. The eroding of clubs did nothing for the game. Melbourne should have always been an expansion aim.

I would have liked the Chargers to stay in the comp as well. But people who suggest they made a profit have to keep it in perspective. The Chargers were responsible by only spending what they could afford, and they didn't have a lot of money. The problem is they were never going to stay competitive on the field by not being able to match with cash with other clubs. After they had a great season in their second season and made the ARL finals in 1997 cashed up clubs swarmed on the Chargers and they lossed key players such as Brendan Hurst and Jeremy Schloss. They returned to mediocracy the next season coming second last.

 

[King hit]

They were 3rd last in their 2nd season and when they made the 1997 finals they lost more games than they won. It was inevitable the Chargers would get axed I think. The Gold Coast is a waste of space sporting wise.

 

[Stallion]

They were 3rd last in their 2nd season and when they made the 1997 finals they lost more games than they won. It was inevitable the Chargers would get axed I think. The Gold Coast is a waste of space sporting wise.

Strategically its important. Plenty of juniors and they should be part of an increasing number of top flight clubs in Southern Qld. Back then the Mariners should have transplanted their excess operation straight to the Gold Coast.

 

[davi]

They were 3rd last in their 2nd season and when they made the 1997 finals they lost more games than they won. It was inevitable the Chargers would get axed I think. The Gold Coast is a waste of space sporting wise.

Chargers played three seasons, their third last result was actually their first season.


1996: 18th (ARL comp 20 teams)
1997: 7th (ARL comp only 12 teams)
1998: 19th (NRL comp 20 teams)

 

[King hit]

Chargers played three seasons, their third last result was actually their first season.


1996: 18th (ARL comp 20 teams)
1997: 7th (ARL comp only 12 teams)
1998: 19th (NRL comp 20 teams)

There were so many different versions of that Gold Coast club no wonder I got confused.

 

[davi]

There were so many different versions of that Gold Coast club no wonder I got confused.

That's true. If the Mariners did ask the Chargers to become the Gold Coast Mariners I can see why the Gold Coast told them to go shove it.

 

[Stallion]

That's true. If the Mariners did ask the Chargers to become the Gold Coast Mariners I can see why the Gold Coast told them to go shove it.

That's fair enough but probably not with the knowledge the NRL were going to axe them? Would have thought survival rather than extinction would have been thought about. Although the executive mindset back then was not thinking strategically at all. It was a mess and made worse by carving up so many clubs with no plans for future inclusion. Very dissapointing. The Gold Coast were later included due to it being obvious that another code was expanding into this heartland area!

 

[Perth Red]

It's interesting looking back at some of the news from the early 90's, both the ARL/nswrl recognised eleven teams in Sydney was u sustainable and needed to be culled to 4-5. Then SL proposed 4 Sydney superteams with a 20 club second division of existing teams, the arl's counter thinking was a redefined comp to counteract the SL proposal that also had 5 Sydney teams in it.

Funny thing is without SL we clearly would have seen the ARL rationalise Sydney down significantly by now. If SL had won we'd have seen Sydney significantly rationalised down by now. What we ended up with was a limp dck code where status quo was preserved whilst wounds were licked and the two owners couldn't be arsed to have any long term vision beyond then14 club rationalised competition by 2000. Last 17 years since then the only vision we've had was to get a club on the GC before afl did.

 

[King hit]

SL did take over if you ask me