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A tribal tragedy

innsaneink

Referee
Messages
29,365
ONE of the great sporting tragedies has gradually unfolded before our eyes in recent years. It is one of those things that happened before we realised how terrible it was and now there is no way it can be fixed without a great deal of pain.
The whole hideous scenario came to a head at ANZ Stadium (the former Olympic/Telstra stadium) in Sydney yesterday. A match that for many years has been held at the Sydney Football Stadium in the inner city (with great success) was moved to the cavernous former Olympic Stadium.
To put this into perspective, let's have a look at what has unfolded over recent seasons. A large number of AFL and NRL clubs have moved from their traditional ovals and parks to massive arenas that seat up to 100,000 people.
Melbourne led the way and, thanks to what is a great footy venue, has largely succeeded in transplanting half a dozen AFL clubs from their home grounds to Telstra Dome.
The fact that AFL attracts crowds of more than 40,000 to matches makes the home ground sacrifice for clubs a lot more palatable. But what is happening in the NRL is nothing short of disgraceful and tragic.
St George Illawarra and South Sydney have entered into a venture with the former Olympic Stadium that will see them play most of their home games at a venue that is around 50km from where most of their fans live.
Yesterday's match featured two teams from the south and east of the city playing in the heart of Sydney's west before a crowd of people who feel like foreigners sitting there.
They have done this because ANZ Stadium offers huge financial incentives to embattled clubs struggling to break even. Rugby league insiders question how on earth the stadium management finds the money to pay so many teams so much.
While the clubs claim their bottom line looks a little more healthy in the short term, the result is that teams are now playing before very low crowds in a stadium that really needs to seat 60,000 before it feels like you are at the footy.
Leading NRL commentator Matty Johns says ANZ stadium "stinks''. Players and commentators hate the place.
St George, Wests Tigers, South Sydney and the Canterbury Bulldogs have all given up home ground advantages because club bosses lacked the vision to fix their home grounds rather than make the move. They saw the money, they ran and they forgot about what really matters in football - tribalism.
These blokes have taken the quick fix and ignored the damage they have caused their clubs, the fans and the game. If they had spent more time promoting the game in their local districts, they would never have become so desperate for cash in the first place.
The AFL can quite gleefully look for a second team in the Sydney market because they see so many rugby league clubs struggling to attract crowds.
ANZ is tailor-made for Aussie rules. While league teams are like fish out of water there, the Aussie rules boys will be lapping it up in front of huge crowds.
If the clubs who have made the ridiculous move to the city's worst football stadium had thought it through, the solution was at their own front door.
Restoring home grounds in suburban Sydney satisfies a footy fan's need to feel like part of a football community.
Home grounds that seat around 20,000 give all teams a home ground advantage that players reckon is worth up to 10 points a game.
It is no coincidence that the teams that have sold themselves to ANZ are wallowing at the bottom of the NRL ladder. They no longer actually have games on familiar turf in front of a big home crowd.
Nothing good can come of clubs who up stumps from established league communities for the sake of a lousy dollar. The AFL model has worked because Telstra Dome is easy to access, spectators are close to the action on the field and AFL crowds are always big.
A small bunch of league lovers will travel with their binoculars a long way to watch their footy team in a bad stadium.
A large majority won't.
League fans traditionally want to enjoy their fortnightly footy game at the end of their street. The beauty of the rundown home ground and its closeness to the action has been unbelievably under-rated.
These football bosses will learn the hard way that a financial quick fix will end up stuffing their clubs and sending thousands of fans away in the process.
By the time the AFL juggernaut lands another team in Sydney, their demise will be complete and the Sydney football market will be dominated by those who live south of the border.


By Rebecca Wilson | April 26, 2008 12:00am

Home grounds, like loyalty - a disappearing facet in the game.
Cant agree with the last para though.
 

ledzep

Bench
Messages
2,521
How woud she know what rugby league fans want?
I'd much rather go to ANZ Stadium than a dump like Brookvale Oval or WIN Stadium
 

Mr Sheen

Juniors
Messages
12
Never seen a game in Australia myself, but I would rather watch a game in front of a full house rather than be part of a bigger crowd spread out in a huge arena. Surely the atmosphere is part of the event. If a perfect view and a comfortable seat is the priority, stay at home and watch it on TV.
 

innsaneink

Referee
Messages
29,365
How woud she know what rugby league fans want?
I'd much rather go to ANZ Stadium than a dump like Brookvale Oval or WIN Stadium
Well, as a rooster fan thats not surprising, I doubt youre old enough to know the real home ground experience.
 

shane1970

Juniors
Messages
1,423
Not a fan of the lady myself but I reckon some of her points and opinions in that article are spot on.
 

In-goal

Bench
Messages
3,523
The problem I see with this sort of rubbish article is that grass hills have no place at Pro sports venues.

I enjoy going to the SFS, plastic seats are a must although growing up I enjoyed the old concrete terracing.

Clubs need to look after themselves and create a new culture of getting people to the matches, ANZ isn't the greatest place to watch RL but it's a more comfortable fit than Brookie, Liechardt and Kograh.

No one in RL doubts that Brisbane has the best stadium, I just wish that the powers to be had realised this in Sydney. Sydney realy requires an inner city stadium that is close to rail, it would solve alot of problems stright away I find the SFS isn't as conveniant when your coming in from the west.
 

innsaneink

Referee
Messages
29,365
The problem I see with this sort of rubbish article is that grass hills have no place at Pro sports venues.

I enjoy going to the SFS, plastic seats are a must although growing up I enjoyed the old concrete terracing.

Clubs need to look after themselves and create a new culture of getting people to the matches, ANZ isn't the greatest place to watch RL but it's a more comfortable fit than Brookie, Liechardt and Kograh.

No one in RL doubts that Brisbane has the best stadium, I just wish that the powers to be had realised this in Sydney. Sydney realy requires an inner city stadium that is close to rail, it would solve alot of problems stright away I find the SFS isn't as conveniant when your coming in from the west.

Man, you are seriously soft
 

Parra

Referee
Messages
24,900
You cannot compare Melbourne & Sydney.

Melbourne is like a large country town compared to Sydney - that is why they can get by with a couple of central stadiums.

It wont work in Sydney - and an empty ANZ stadium proves it each week.
 

Raider Azz

Bench
Messages
4,547
How woud she know what rugby league fans want?
I'd much rather go to ANZ Stadium than a dump like Brookvale Oval or WIN Stadium
i agree to an extent. it's much better for fans and the atmosphere to go to a genuine home ground, but seriously, dumps like brookvale and WIN dont count. the places arent fit to hold league matches.
 

Ice777

Bench
Messages
3,120
You cannot compare Melbourne & Sydney.

Melbourne is like a large country town compared to Sydney - that is why they can get by with a couple of central stadiums.

It wont work in Sydney - and an empty ANZ stadium proves it each week.


Been to Melbourne lately? Your reasoning has sweet FA has to do with it. The reason why the 2 central stadiums work in the AFL is because most of the teams were inner city clubs or very close close to it and weren't spread out all over the joint like in Sydney. Not to mention the fact that both stadiums are easily accessible by public transport from pretty much anywhere people might live in Melbourne.
 

Mr Sheen

Juniors
Messages
12
Jeez, you should see some of the English grounds, though the franchising process has forced some new building. Even then, 15,000 is a big capacity, and a lot of the seats won't be tested.
 

Papa_smurf

Juniors
Messages
506
With half the clubs running at a loss financially, im happy for my team to submit to the big stadiums in order to keep a team on the paddock. Very one dimensional article if u can even call it that.
 

innsaneink

Referee
Messages
29,365
He is completely right and I wish people would stop trying to act as if watching their team play at a run down old venue makes them better fans than someone who prefers to watch a pro football team at a first class facility.

Im in no way inferring I'm a ''better fan'' than In- goal.
I just feel if one NEEDs plastic seating and the ground nice and close for ones convenience, well - ones NEVER going to be happy
 
Messages
12,188
Been to Melbourne lately? Your reasoning has sweet FA has to do with it. The reason why the 2 central stadiums work in the AFL is because most of the teams were inner city clubs or very close close to it and weren't spread out all over the joint like in Sydney. Not to mention the fact that both stadiums are easily accessible by public transport from pretty much anywhere people might live in Melbourne.







I think that's what Parra was alluding to. Don't be put of by the country town remark. I agree entirely with what you say BTW. Melbourne has a smaller foot print-for want of a better word-than Sydney plus, ground sharing comes from a long line of tradition. The clubs used to share (VFL park?) many years as well as the MCG.
 
Messages
12,188
Im in no way inferring I'm a ''better fan'' than In- goal.
I just feel if one NEEDs plastic seating and the ground nice and close for ones convenience, well - ones NEVER going to be happy







We often get referred to as band wagon supporters but seems to me if some are concerned by the decor of a ground, well surely that's worse. I love watching the Jets at Henson, standing at can corner at Brookie or sitting on the hill at Leichardt.
This thread is lost on some people due to anti Wilsonism, to be fair is deserved. She does suck and they always push for mergers, axings or relocations. Tribalism comes from tradition, history as well as geography. Something that somefans don't get or care.
 

Patorick

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
8,991
She may have a point or two, but the agenda is there as always to kill her credibility.
 

Parra

Referee
Messages
24,900
Smaller footprint is maybe a better way of putting it.

Logistically Melbourne can handle two central stadiums. Sydney can be a logistical nightmare - the place is just so big and the teams so far apart.

Even the much touted train station at Homebush is next to useless for most Sydneysiders. So we still have to drive. When we go to see matches at the SFS - we drive.

So it helps to be local. Penrith fans go to see their team play at Penrith. Same at Cronulla, same at Manly, same at Parramatta. Getting to Homebush can be a pain in the arse for a lot of people - and when they get there it is uncomfortable (why is the seating so cramped in an empty crater?) , expensive and they are no where near the action.

Even if all of these things were overcome, when the match ends at 9.30pm or so they find themselves in the middle of nowhere. Nothing like waiting at Lidcombe station to make you realise you should've stayed at home.

Melbourne fans do not suffer from the distances Sydney fans do, and the transport works - mostly due to three factors - the place is small, as flat as a pancake, and the population is a fraction of Sydney's.

My point is that the two do not compare - what works down south does not work up here. And that goes for more than the footy.
 
Messages
12,188
I'll go as far to say that for most people, the SFS and ANZ are equally hard to get to.
The difference is however that going to the SFS means I have a range of pubs to go to that makes my walk bearable. When the game's over there are more pubs. My mates and I make a day of it in other words. At Homebush the bars close 20mins before full time. Outside the ground, your choices are drink expensive beer out of plastic cups at the sh*tty Novatel or get ushered like a sheep to the train station. When you finally get to your stop you feel like going home instead of going out. There's simply nothing there. It's a sh*tty day in the end.
 
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