"American Rugby"?

[juro]

Not such a dumb question.

Here is my understanding of events:

When the "great split" occurred in 1895, the administration of the breakaway northern based rugby football clubs referred to itself as the "Northern Union" (NU) as opposed to the "Rugby Football Union" (RFU).
However, implicit in this title was that the game being administered was "Rugby Football".
The competition that the NU established was referred to as the "Northern Rugby Football League".
At the time of its establishment, the NU were playing "Rugby Football", as it was at that time, and had not intended to be playing a different version of the game.
This is why, IMO, that fans in the north of England still refer to the game colloquially as "Rugby".
There were however some relatively rapid evolutionary changes to NU rugby, such as the abolition of lineouts, and most significantly the adoption of the play the ball, that by the time it was introduced to New Zealand and Australia, there were significant differences from the RFU's code.
The inaugural governing body (1908) in Australia was the "New South Wales Rugby Football League", (NSWRFL), and maintained this name up to 1984 when it became the New South Wales Rugby League (NSWRL).
In the southern hemisphere the NU's version of rugby (Rugby League) had been seen to be different since its inception, so that the southern hemisphere Rugby Leagues (NSWRFL, QRL, NZRL) had by 1921 requested the Northern Union to alter its name to the "English Rugby Football League".
The governing body in the UK is still to this day referred to as the "Rugby Football League" (RFL).

So, you could say that Rugby League is an Australian invention :shock:

I hope that American Rugby is able to develop its own unique culture, yet do so without altering the essential fabric of the game.

Thanks Poul!

 

[Karl]

Not such a dumb question.

Here is my understanding of events:

When the "great split" occurred in 1895, the administration of the breakaway northern based rugby football clubs referred to itself as the "Northern Union" (NU) as opposed to the "Rugby Football Union" (RFU).
However, implicit in this title was that the game being administered was "Rugby Football".
The competition that the NU established was referred to as the "Northern Rugby Football League".
At the time of its establishment, the NU were playing "Rugby Football", as it was at that time, and had not intended to be playing a different version of the game.
This is why, IMO, that fans in the north of England still refer to the game colloquially as "Rugby".
There were however some relatively rapid evolutionary changes to NU rugby, such as the abolition of lineouts, and most significantly the adoption of the play the ball, that by the time it was introduced to New Zealand and Australia, there were significant differences from the RFU's code.
The inaugural governing body (1908) in Australia was the "New South Wales Rugby Football League", (NSWRFL), and maintained this name up to 1984 when it became the New South Wales Rugby League (NSWRL).
In the southern hemisphere the NU's version of rugby (Rugby League) had been seen to be different since its inception, so that the southern hemisphere Rugby Leagues (NSWRFL, QRL, NZRL) had by 1921 requested the Northern Union to alter its name to the "English Rugby Football League".
The governing body in the UK is still to this day referred to as the "Rugby Football League" (RFL).

So, you could say that Rugby League is an Australian invention :shock:

I hope that American Rugby is able to develop its own unique culture, yet do so without altering the essential fabric of the game.

Nice potted summary, thanks. In the States I think it would be great to see the adoption of some local terms for aspects of the game. It'll probably creep in over time anyway.

 

[Rampart66]

I love the term touchdown rather than try, but I think it's important to keep the proper terms. I'll agree that it makes sense to use American football terminology to explain the game (try=touchdown, in touch=out of bounds)

It's a lot of fun explaining to new fans the history behind the term "try" (since it a question that gets asked quite a bit). It's also fun to tie it in to the reason that American football kicks the extra point after a touchdown and going through the history of Association Football (soccer) to Rugby Football to American Football.

 

[Poul]

I love the term touchdown rather than try, but I think it's important to keep the proper terms. I'll agree that it makes sense to use American football terminology to explain the game (try=touchdown, in touch=out of bounds)

It's a lot of fun explaining to new fans the history behind the term "try" (since it a question that gets asked quite a bit). It's also fun to tie it in to the reason that American football kicks the extra point after a touchdown and going through the history of Association Football (soccer) to Rugby Football to American Football.

Perhaps highlighting the similarities between (American) Football and Rugby League is the way to engage potential new fans.

Also, by pointing out that Rugby League is like a long lost relative of Football, with both being descendents of "English Rugby", may pique the interest of those who might otherwise be indifferent.

As Karl has pointed out, there may well be different terms which will come into "American Rugby" more or less "organically".

I think this will be a good thing, and a sign that "American Rugby" has "arrived".

 

[PacificCoastRL]

Perhaps highlighting the similarities between (American) Football and Rugby League is the way to engage potential new fans.

Also, by pointing out that Rugby League is like a long lost relative of Football, with both being descendents of "English Rugby", may pique the interest of those who might otherwise be indifferent.

As Karl has pointed out, there may well be different terms which will come into "American Rugby" more or less "organically".

I think this will be a good thing, and a sign that "American Rugby" has "arrived".

Are we going to go through this again. Rugby arrived in America over 100 years ago. Rugby league has been here for just over a decade. American rugby, that's like English rugby, right? That's different than rugby league, right?

 

[Poul]

Are we going to go through this again. Rugby arrived in America over 100 years ago. Rugby league has been here for just over a decade. American rugby, that's like English rugby, right? That's different than rugby league, right?

PCRL, It is not my intention to reignite the debate about whether Rugby League should be renamed American Rugby in the USA (although I do still hold the viewpoint that it should).

In my post above, I was using the term "American Rugby" in its generic sense.

I was trying to suggest that Rugby League may benefit from highlighting its similarities with (American) Football in the US market, and pointing out its common ancestry with the archaic form of rugby (i.e., as played in the 19th century), which often in an American context was subsequently referred to as "English Rugby". I was not referring to modern day rugby union.

I was also using the term "arrived" in its metaphorical sense, hence the " ....", and not its literal sense. I know how long the rugby codes have been played in North America.

I would like to see "American Rugby" develop it own distinct culture, and not be seen as a game played by ex-pats and foreigners. It will be when this occurs, and the game has entered the American sporting psyche that it will truly have "arrived".

 

[PacificCoastRL]

PCRL, It is not my intention to reignite the debate about whether Rugby League should be renamed American Rugby in the USA (although I do still hold the viewpoint that it should).

In my post above, I was using the term "American Rugby" in its generic sense.

I was trying to suggest that Rugby League may benefit from highlighting its similarities with (American) Football in the US market, and pointing out its common ancestry with the archaic form of rugby (i.e., as played in the 19th century), which often in an American context was subsequently referred to as "English Rugby". I was not referring to modern day rugby union.

I was also using the term "arrived" in its metaphorical sense, hence the " ....", and not its literal sense. I know how long the rugby codes have been played in North America.

I would like to see "American Rugby" develop it own distinct culture, and not be seen as a game played by ex-pats and foreigners. It will be when this occurs, and the game has entered the American sporting psyche that it will truly have "arrived".

Fair enough. But further to your viewpoint - when you say rugby in the United States or Canada people think rugby union. When you say "American Rugby" people think rugby union.

 

[Lone Ranger]

I will dance a gig when this thread is well and truly dead

 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Fair enough. But further to your viewpoint - when you say rugby in the United States or Canada people think rugby union. When you say "American Rugby" people think rugby union.

Exactly. "American Rugby" doesn't do what it says on the tin. It's not what the American's consider "rugby", it's not made in America, it's not different to rugby outside of America. It's just not got any logical reason to being called that and all it will do is create confusion more than any other name change would.

 

[Footyhead2]

PCRL, It is not my intention to reignite the debate about whether Rugby League should be renamed American Rugby in the USA (although I do still hold the viewpoint that it should).

In my post above, I was using the term "American Rugby" in its generic sense.

I was trying to suggest that Rugby League may benefit from highlighting its similarities with (American) Football in the US market, and pointing out its common ancestry with the archaic form of rugby (i.e., as played in the 19th century), which often in an American context was subsequently referred to as "English Rugby". I was not referring to modern day rugby union.

I was also using the term "arrived" in its metaphorical sense, hence the " ....", and not its literal sense. I know how long the rugby codes have been played in North America.

I would like to see "American Rugby" develop it own distinct culture, and not be seen as a game played by ex-pats and foreigners. It will be when this occurs, and the game has entered the American sporting psyche that it will truly have "arrived".

Poul is onto something in terms of changing the terminology we yanks can relate to it better. One thing that is not discussed is introducing timeouts. All of our sports have timeouts so we can get another beer, visit the restroom, get some more corn chips, etc. We watch games like soccer that don't have this and it is a big yawn because it just seems to go on and on. Call it American Rugby, change the terminology to reflect poitions such as wide receiver, offensive lineman, linebacker, etc. and have timeouts to allow substitution of players into specialty positions. It's strange that a player who kicks off then has to run down field and make tackles!

 

[babyg]

I like the term American Rugby. Dont stuff with the rules too much but there is definitely room to have it's own culture and focus. Nrl is defensively orientated, super league is more flowing. Why can't America be the kings of the set plays. Nothing wrong with borrowing gridiron terminology either

 

[Reborned]

Poul is onto something in terms of changing the terminology we yanks can relate to it better. One thing that is not discussed is introducing timeouts. All of our sports have timeouts so we can get another beer, visit the restroom, get some more corn chips, etc. We watch games like soccer that don't have this and it is a big yawn because it just seems to go on and on. Call it American Rugby, change the terminology to reflect poitions such as wide receiver, offensive lineman, linebacker, etc. and have timeouts to allow substitution of players into specialty positions. It's strange that a player who kicks off then has to run down field and make tackles!

No offense but putting time outs into Rugby League and having players come on into specialist positions changes the sport into some bastardised sport and does nothing for the USA being able to compete on the world stage.

 

[adamkungl]

It's strange that a player who kicks off then has to run down field and make tackles!

lol...fmd

 

[Burrzz]

I "Think" all Rugby should be/stay in The League.

I also think all the rules should be the same England, NRL AND OTHER Clubs

 

[Poul]

It seems that this issue, just like this thread, will not go away :sarcasm:

 

[Poul]

In today's game between the Axemen and the Fight, there was at one stage apparently 11 on 11 players.

Perhaps this could be the basis for a new game ....... American Rugby ;-)

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[sharkies9]

In today's game between the Axemen and the Fight, there was at one stage apparently 11 on 11 players.

Perhaps this could be the basis for a new game ....... American Rugby ;-)

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

State of origin 2 also had 11 v 11.

 

[byrner]

Having only read through the first 4 and last page of this thread, can anyone tell me if a nickname for league was created/uncovered?

 

[Poul]

(im just raining on everyone's parade).
I for one dont have an answer. - Best bet is to get one hundred 8-15 years olds in a room and ask them what they think the sport should be named after watching 20 minutes of it. (american kids)

+++
Lawrence, I am prepared to put my money where my mouth is, and commission a survey with this question put to these constituents.

pm me to let me know how we can make this happen.

 

[Western_Eel]

Just leave the name alone, the name rugby league is not the reason the game hasn't grown in this country