Any truth to...

[Big Bunny]

Is there any truth behind a suggestion that next year the Premier League and JB Cup will merge and we will see Flegg rise in prominence with all NRL clubs fielding teams under a QANTAS sponsored comp?

 

[mc5]

Correct - most premier league clubs are going to drop out and use a Jim Bean Cup side as a feeder club. A national U20s comp will take over the Premier league role. Each NRL club will field a U20 side with the exception of the Warriors. Premier league is dead and buried.

Junior reps will only be U16 and U18 at NSWRL level.

 

[El Diablo]

Is this good or bad :?

 

[brook]

I like the closer links with Ryde-Eastwood but not that bloody close :evil:

I wish they'd stop messing with the format

 

[Henson Park Hornets]

What is the purpose of stuffing around with the format AGAIN?

What is wrong with the current situation?

Answers on the back of a stamp please...

I hope the NSWRL isn't going to be running the new comps, they can even organise a website to be updated on a regular basis.

 

[mono_mal]

I always thought this would happen.
I think this will be great for second tier rugby league.
As I've said before Premier League is largely restricted in potential being primarily a reserve grade competition.
The Jim Beam Cup has no such boundaries.
But what will be of most benefit to rugby league is that we will see the rich leagues clubs large finances utilised.
A number of these clubs are operating on profits as high or near as high as NRL clubs. Previously these clubs have been contributing little in terms of finance to rugby league, now they will be relieving the NRL clubs of financing second tier rugby league which will free them up to spend more on the development of the game.
Many clubs are currently experiencing financial problems and this can only help. Finally these second tier rugby league clubs will be utilised properly and they will be contributing largely to the sport on which they were founded.

 

[mc5]

You need to be clear that it is more a situation where Jim Bean will replace Premier League. Non of the Premier League teams will back up in Jim Bean other than having a feeder club relationship i.e. Penrith and St Marys

 

[Jeffles]

Is this entriely true? Jim Beam have another year to run on their contract (end of 2005) and VB's deal goes beyond next year I understand. Surely this is a sign that they want to stick with the current formula for at least next year.

I've heard of a competition wide Under 20s comp before. It has been lacking since the expansion days of the mid 1990s. This is a move to strealine youth development like when you had President's Cup in the early 1990s. Superleague had a national Under 19s comp. It was a superb initiative I must say.

If any comp was to suffer it would be Jersey Flegg, the current Senior youth comp for most NRL clubs. Why run 2 Under 20s teams??

I've made it clear before that VBPL gets a bum wrap. I know some clubs don't focus on it as much as they should but even as a club's 2nd Grade comp, it gets more fans than other club's 1st grade comp (JBC). And this is despite the incredible promotion done by JBC.

It is weird that people suggest there will be a sudden taking over of PL clubs by JBC clubs. Technically this has been possible since 2000 and the Warriors feeder with Newtown. That was the first time that PL (and equivalents) moved from being a pure 2nd grade comp towards a comp where other clubs could take over NRL 2nd Grades.

4 years later, look what we have. Penrith have outsourced (partially), but no other NRL club has In fact, the Warriors withdrew. Don't think clubs wil be so ready to give up their 2nd grade side and outsource. They've had the chance to do it for 4 years and it's been slow progress. I don't think an Under 20s comp will increase the move to outsource. Clubs already have an equivalent side (Flegg). If anything, the push to outsource will come about as a result of external pressure (the pokie tax) which will strike around the same time as the Under 20s comp begins.

 

[brook]

Is this entriely true? Jim Beam have another year to run on their contract (end of 2005) and VB's deal goes beyond next year I understand. Surely this is a sign that they want to stick with the current formula for at least next year.

I've heard of a competition wide Under 20s comp before. It has been lacking since the expansion days of the mid 1990s. This is a move to strealine youth development like when you had President's Cup in the early 1990s. Superleague had a national Under 19s comp. It was a superb initiative I must say.

If any comp was to suffer it would be Jersey Flegg, the current Senior youth comp for most NRL clubs. Why run 2 Under 20s teams??

I've made it clear before that VBPL gets a bum wrap. I know some clubs don't focus on it as much as they should but even as a club's 2nd Grade comp, it gets more fans than other club's 1st grade comp (JBC). And this is despite the incredible promotion done by JBC.

It is weird that people suggest there will be a sudden taking over of PL clubs by JBC clubs. Technically this has been possible since 2000 and the Warriors feeder with Newtown. That was the first time that PL (and equivalents) moved from being a pure 2nd grade comp towards a comp where other clubs could take over NRL 2nd Grades.

4 years later, look what we have. Penrith have outsourced (partially), but no other NRL club has In fact, the Warriors withdrew. Don't think clubs wil be so ready to give up their 2nd grade side and outsource. They've had the chance to do it for 4 years and it's been slow progress. I don't think an Under 20s comp will increase the move to outsource. Clubs already have an equivalent side (Flegg). If anything, the push to outsource will come about as a result of external pressure (the pokie tax) which will strike around the same time as the Under 20s comp begins.

Speaking to someone on the weekend and he confirmed

* both Jim Beam and VB are contracted for beyond next year (VB is a 3 year deal)

* that the NSWRL is currently negotiating to get JB cup matches on TV (at least one game a week)

* That he hadn't heard a word about plans to merge the comps/abolish PL next year

So for the time being I'll be assuming (and hoping) that the rumours are just that

 

[Jeffles]

The National Under 20s comp is more than rumour. It has been in the discussion stages for a long time.

I heard that JBC TV plans were halted by clubs. The NSWRL doesn't want to pay for it and some clubs are hesitant to pay for it because (1) some of the poorer clubs have limited finances (2) it would cost at least $10K per club and (3) clubs aren't guaranteed an equal showing despite paying an equal share. VERY LEGITIMATE CONCERNS!

I think PL would be a better TV product. No other state bypasses 2nd Grade to broadcast 3rd Grade. Again it shows the NSWRL's and the NRL club's lack of concern for PL. Plus PL has the attraction of 4 exclusiuve foundation clubs and coverage of high profile NRL/NSWRL clubs/players.

I think the Under 20s comp will happen but if anyone should be worried about it, it's the fans of Flegg.

 

[brook]

ahh sorry I actually meant to get tv coverage for premier league - not Jim Beam cup!!!

and yeah I can't see how Flegg and and under 20's can co-exist to be honest, already we have the top 4-5 players from most of last years flegg teams playing PL and/or First grade (a major reason for the magpies AND the tigers slide from last years form), add an under 20's and you'd be better off abolishing flegg altogether

 

[Bluebag]

brook, there has been a push for a while to get PL on the air but the NSWRL does not want to pay, the QRL pay $1,000 to get the games on air but why the league here will not do the same is beyond me. At this price it will cost less than 30k pa and they have a new sponsor which they can surely take out of this budget and perhaps build greater sponsorships.

 

[brook]

all I know is that they are negotiating now apparently

It could well be that once again nothing will come of it - but I'm hoping otherwise

It'd be fantastic for the comp to finally get that sort of publicity, if Balmain v Saints can draw almost 1000 with no publicity at all imagine what a game between two foundation clubs not in the NRL like Balmain/Wests/Newtown and Norths could do if there was a real awareness of the comp out there...

almost forgot also there are apparently moves to include the rip in next years PL although that is running into some blocks (and I'm not convinced its a great idea anyway to be honest - by that age most of the best players on the c/c are already contracted to Sydney clubs)

 

[Jeffles]

I don't think the Rip is a good idea for PL. I think the number of teams is fine at 14. I'm sure there are also cost issues and I'd question their competitiveness.

Bluebag, is it really only $1000 per game for the QRL. That sounds too cheap. Although if it is, the NSWRL qwould have rocks in their head not to pay that. That money could be made back easily.

I am sure all PL clubs would welcome PL being televised. It would increase the value of jersey sponsorships and it would putthis state into line with all others (who show 2nd grade on TV). The issue would be for the 4 exclusive foundation clubs. I am sure they would want special consideration for a return on their investment given how much more they rely on PL compared to the other clubs.

The old line was that you couldn't have PL on TV because the NRL TV contract forbade NRL players from appearing in other TV competitions. I unjderstand this is not an issue (nor should it be considering Qld Cup is on TV).

 

[Fanny Batter]

y merge the comps?

there are plenty of older blokes in NRL teams that need Reggies. so they would have to change the points. jim beam cup is meant for younger people.

there is still a need for premier league because if you drop an older bloke back, he may not b able to play in the u20s or in jim beam cup. he still needs to keep fit.

i also dont think u need to merge the competitions. premier league teams dont have to b nrl clubs. they can b non nrl clubs like when the warriors played as newtown. so the argument that wenty firsts have more potential than parra seconds doesnt wash because nrl clubs havent gone to use other clubs.

 

[Jeffles]

FB

Of courser they would have to change points requirements. It wouldn't be a pure merger. You would have to accomodate blokes like Preston Campbell, Mark Gasnier, Brett Firman, Nathan Blacklock, Owen Craigie playing reserves (these 3 have all appeared at Henson in PL in the past 3 years.

I think what is being said is that once an Under 20s comp comes in, the outsourcing of clubs will be accelerated because clubs will want to offset the cost of a new team.

My argument is

1) Most clubs already have an Under 20s team (Flegg or Colts) so the extra costs won't be as much as starting a new team. Therefore if anything, Flegg will be replaced.

2) Since 2000 clubs have had the chance to outsource via First Division and PL. It hasn't been much.

3) You don't need a merging of comps for clubs to outsource. Look at Newtown in 2000, the Qld Cup and the St Mary's Penrith Cougars.

 

[Jeffles]

I spoke to Terry Liberopoulos at the Newtown v Souths Premier League match a few weeks ago. I asked him his opinions on the National Under 20s comp. My reply was "what are you talking about? I haven't heard anything". I then explained it to him.

Now I read in his magazine a half page article about the thing, including some of the stuff I told him about. WHERE'S MY BYLINE????

It's a good article but not great (like most of his magazine) but it really lacks any insight into the ramifications for Flegg (the existing Under 20s comp). Instead it goes on about the future of PL. Thank God it quotes Graham Annesley who realises that over age players have to go somewhere too.

The article also mentions the possibility of allowing a limited number of over age players (to make up for this). This would have ramifications for PL and Flegg.

 

[Fanny Batter]

they want their cake and 2 eat it 2.

as if itll develop under age playas if u let ova age guys in. theyd take perference if they step down from nrl.

 

[Jeffles]

That is a very real concern FB. It still bugs me why no one asks about Flegg. That is the current under 20s comp for 11 NRL clubs. Surely it is implicated in this discussion but nobody brings it up.

 

[Fanny Batter]

i dont think wests and balmain will b happy. they want to b separate outside nrl.