Anybody here play piano/keyboard?

[Simo]

Am a guitar player by trade and am trying to learn the keyboard.

I saw in a book showing keyboard chords that they seem to have the notes arrange differently to the guitar.

E.g. for a basic major chord, lets say C you have the first, third and fifth note of the major scale so you have C E and G (and then you double some notes depending on the variation you play) but predominately the C is the bass note of the chord. If I was to add the 3rd fret 6th string G to a standard C chord this could be called a C with a G bass.

In the keyboard beginners book I was looking at all the chords dont have the root note as the lowest or bass note so for the C chord the lowest note is a G then a C and then the E.

Do all piano/keyboard chords always use the 5th note as the bass for the chords or is this book wrong and what is the normal thing to learn/teach a beginner of the instrument??

Also does anyone know a website to find keyboard/piano music? For guitar I search guitar tabs and I get a million answers but cant find any for piano/keyboard. What do I search for?? (e.g. I cant find 'right now' by Van Halen.)

 

[SP]

this site has piano/keyboard chords http://www.e-chords.com/

 

[strewth_mate]

I don't think the book would be wrong really, it's just annoying to come to grips with at first. I spose it's convention to write chords as the root, 3rd and 5th when you're showing what notes are in the chord but playing it in the context of a song is a different matter imo.

It's hard to explain but for example think of a normal 8 bar blues progression, with the 1st, 4th and 5th chords. It mightn't be terribly practical to play all the chords as triads (e.g. C E G) because there'd be a pretty large jump between the notes which is something you usually try to avoid if possible when you're keeping it simple. Plus it'd be a bit boring; basically as far as I'm concerned it doesn't necessarily matter what notes you play, as long as they belong to the chord and the transition between chords is smooth enough.

The difference between chords on a piano and guitar, which is probably what the confusing part is, if you play the 3rd fret 6th string in a C chord it's because you mean to play a C/G whereas for some reason it doesn't matter as much on the piano, they're both just C unless the context means the G in the bass is particularly emphasised. Have to bear in mind that when you play a chord on guitar, it's your fingers in a certain configuration and the tuning of the guitar does all the rest, but on a piano you have to think about all the notes you're playing and where to put your fingers accordingly.

Another problem with playing triad after triad is you get a succession of fifths (between the first and fifth note of the chord), which makes the song seem a bit airy; it can't hurt too much to chuck in a chord played in a different way to add a bit of meat. If you played one of those songs in the book with the chords as they are, it would most likely sound and flow better than if you did it with triads.

I spose the best thing to know is that while the 1st, 3rd and 5th make up a chord, you can play any of the inversions and it's still known technically as the same chord. It's just a matter of what fits best maybe. Not all piano chords use the 5th as the bass, they've probably found it more convenient to write it that way at that point. But learn the chords as the triads, and then you can play around later.

And I'd be careful of some of the chords you get on sites, sometimes they're in the wrong key or something and it screws you around when you're trying to play along with someone. Nothing major, just maybe take them with a grain of salt like you would with a tab

EDIT - Actually, reading over that, it's a massive wank. Apologies :lol:

 

[Simo]

Thankyou SP for the link.

Strewth mate, I appreciate your detailed response and It is a good help.

I know that I can play the chords in many different ways and as you said to spice things up it is often better to mix it up sometimes (as I do on the guitar all the time).

I was just trying to learn the 'right way' or as if a teacher was teaching me to begin with as I have gone from about 17 years of guitar playing to playing twinkle twinkle little star from a beginners book counting 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and 1 and 2.....!!!!

You made a point that intrests me actually about on the guitar you play configurations and the tuning does the rest but on the piano you have to think about the notes you are playing. Very true and that is how I was looking at the piano (trying to find out which configurations made which chord) which is why I was trying to find out the correct configuration.

But when you look at a chord on the piano do you see the different notes as opposed to the hand configuration to make up the chord? So eventually you can look at any key and know what it is and eventually multiple keys without counting from middle C!??

It seems like it could be a great way to get my musical theory down pat as if instead of looking at chord patterns knowing they make a chord but not necessarily what each note is, I will need to know what notes I need to hit to make the chord I want.

Thanks for your help.

 

[strewth_mate]

No worries, I just don't want to gibber because people usually see these things in different ways

I reckon a teacher would say to first learn some basic chords, just the old favourites and nothing too tricky, and a few simple tunes. It's just plugging away until you get a feel for where things are on the keyboard, and get a handle on rhythm etc. So essentially, it's the same idea as for someone learning to play the guitar, so if you remember when you first started learning guitar, things just became second nature through familiarity.

This is especially true for chords and you'll be surprised how quickly it sinks in. Different chords have different shapes, and your hands will automatically figure most of the chord out eventually through recognition of the shapes. This is where practice is very helpful; instead of manually figuring out each note in a chord, you'll eventually glance at it, realise you've seen it before, and all that's left is getting the hand in the right place. Like reading a book; you don't have to analyse every word on the page, sound it out and think of its meaning, you just know.

Personally, seeing a basic chord on the paper doesn't require much thought and it's almost a reflex action to play it, and you'd be the same if someone said to play a G#maj7 on the guitar. It's just a bitch to learn, but put in at least a bit of time and you'll be surprised. And yeah, soon enough you'll just see a note on the page and automatically know what it is. Just think, you know where middle C is and it just feels like common sense, like it's just middle C because it is, so there's no reason why you can't eventually think that 'this is an F because it is'... Play enough F's and it'll lock in...

And you're right, picking up another instrument is great for perspective because you've got to look at the music slightly differently. It's always interesting to take a step back, play a chord on the guitar, and figure out on the piano exactly what notes you've just played. I reckon it makes you a much better musician, if only for the appreciation.

Theory-wise, it definitely helps because of what you said, you're basically thinking about notes, so it gives a better idea of intervals and chords than a guitar because it's laid out right in front of you (you're playing horizontally, not vertically...) This makes constructing complex chords very easy because you understand why it is. Play a Bb chord, then play the note 7 up from Bb, and you've got a Bb7. You're not just thinking "hmm, Bb7, so I won't use my little finger."

It comes out a bit of a muddle when I try to explain it but basically just have fun...

 

[Weasels Ripped My Flesh]

Try this site too: http://www.looknohands.com/chordhouse/piano/

As a guitarist-turned-pianist, i found it pretty handy.

 

[Simo]

Strewth mate thanks again I appreciate your help and good response.

Weasels Ripped My Flesh - great site thanks, very helpful (p.s. love your user name!)