Are we genuine contenders??

[Coffs dragon]

Yeah, nah.
Take the top playmakers out of any team and they won't win a premiership. Without Sowie we never win 2010. Storm don't win the comp without Smith. Sharks without Ennis.
There are some players that just make the team what they are and without them the team isn't the same.
And there is no planning for injuries to these guys. If it happens you deal with it as best you can.
We do have guys in ISP doing a good job but they are not anywhere near Hunt and Widdop just as the backup hooker for Storm isn't going to be able to perform to Cameron Smiths level.

Crush with all due respect I always believe in that Old theory....a champion team will always beat a team of champions.
Take the Cowboys last year minus their 2 biggest & best players in JT and Matt Scott, got on a roll and went all the way to a GF appearance.
Whom will forget the 1977 Grand final replay Saints vs Eels, when our No.7 In Mark Schulman was ruled out with injury & Harry Bath thru in John Bailey as half.......and we won. It certainly was a combined and strong team effort in the days when Reserve Grade was valued and not an after thought.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

Yeah, nah.
Take the top playmakers out of any team and they won't win a premiership. Without Sowie we never win 2010. Storm don't win the comp without Smith. Sharks without Ennis.
There are some players that just make the team what they are and without them the team isn't the same.
And there is no planning for injuries to these guys. If it happens you deal with it as best you can.
We do have guys in ISP doing a good job but they are not anywhere near Hunt and Widdop just as the backup hooker for Storm isn't going to be able to perform to Cameron Smiths level.

All that's great but how would we ever know if our ISP players don't get game time?
Even players like Smith are part of a squad that include second tier players that can do a job and keep the Team competitive during difficult periods of injury and SOO duties.
A great example was the Cowboys last year.
Decimated by injuries but their second tier players stood tall.
Premierships are won by squads of players and a savvy coach..
Flogging the same 13 players until they collapse, is not a strategy conducive to winning the comp.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

Crush with all due respect I always believe in that Old theory....a champion team will always beat a team of champions.
Take the Cowboys last year minus their 2 biggest & best players in JT and Matt Scott, got on a roll and went all the way to a GF appearance.
Whom will forget the 1977 Grand final replay Saints vs Eels, when our No.7 In Mark Schulman was ruled out with injury & Harry Bath thru in John Bailey as half.......and we won. It certainly was a combined and strong team effort in the days when Reserve Grade was valued and not an after thought.

We must be on the same wavelength...

 

[ouryears]

Yeah, nah.
Take the top playmakers out of any team and they won't win a premiership. Without Sowie we never win 2010. Storm don't win the comp without Smith. Sharks without Ennis.
There are some players that just make the team what they are and without them the team isn't the same.
And there is no planning for injuries to these guys. If it happens you deal with it as best you can.
We do have guys in ISP doing a good job but they are not anywhere near Hunt and Widdop just as the backup hooker for Storm isn't going to be able to perform to Cameron Smiths level.

Crush you only have to look at Penrith this year with 8 ISP players playing first grade through injuries to their starting 17, these 8 ISP players were part of their team that SPANKED our arses and are equal first.

Enough said.

 

[Coffs dragon]

We must be on the same wavelength...

We certainly are Dennis, but I'm still concerned our coach is on his own 2017 wavelength of flogging them early then dying in the run home

 

[ouryears]

Yeah, nah.
Take the top playmakers out of any team and they won't win a premiership. Without Sowie we never win 2010. Storm don't win the comp without Smith. Sharks without Ennis.
There are some players that just make the team what they are and without them the team isn't the same.
And there is no planning for injuries to these guys. If it happens you deal with it as best you can.
We do have guys in ISP doing a good job but they are not anywhere near Hunt and Widdop just as the backup hooker for Storm isn't going to be able to perform to Cameron Smiths level.

Of course you can plan for them not to be there, just give the backup player 20 minutes gametime every week, seriously, 20 minutes will help prepare him and certainly won't stuff the team up.

Only in Mary's eyes it will.

Just like the field not being 97mts long ....and those damn tries from kicks stuffed us up in his eyes.

Yeah, let's not plan ahead.
Let's just hope and pray.

Just plain shite excuses.

 

[The Damo]

Sorry Crush
Premierships are not won "hoping" we will always be able to field our top players.
What's happening with the ISP players and the bench rotation is what will compromise us if there are injuries.

They kind of are though...
Our bench rotation and long term depth building needs improvement, no argument there. But taking a look at the last few winners and how they used their second rowers over the regular season
Storm 2017
Kaufusi played 24 at 77mins ave
Harris played 11 at 68 mins ( due to injuries, not resting, the two seasons prior he played 24 each at 78 mins ave)
Sharks 2016
Graham played 23 at 79 mins
Lewis played 23 at 66 mins (33 yr old with 15 seasons worth of wear)
Cows 2015
Cooper played 23 games at 80 mins
Lowe played 24 games at 79 minutes.

From memory I think graham, cooper and maybe Lewis played some Origin too on those years. So this shows that where possible the winning teams did nearly zero rotation of their second rowers with the lower grades. I’d bet those that played 23 were either injured or had 1 game rested around or after Origin.

 

[The Damo]

Crush you only have to look at Penrith this year with 8 ISP players playing first grade through injuries to their starting 17, these 8 ISP players were part of their team that SPANKED our arses and are equal first.

Enough said.

That’s not true though - I looked at the team, the only ones you could call ISP players would be Crichton, Phillips and maybe Egan and Hetherington. But even if Wallace were fit Katoa would’ve been on the bench, and they are better with Katoa and Egan.
So two wingers and a bench forward.
Crichtons been in the starting team since round 3 too.

 

[MilanDragon]

They kind of are though...
Our bench rotation and long term depth building needs improvement, no argument there. But taking a look at the last few winners and how they used their second rowers over the regular season
Storm 2017
Kaufusi played 24 at 77mins ave
Harris played 11 at 68 mins ( due to injuries, not resting, the two seasons prior he played 24 each at 78 mins ave)
Sharks 2016
Graham played 23 at 79 mins
Lewis played 23 at 66 mins (33 yr old with 15 seasons worth of wear)
Cows 2015
Cooper played 23 games at 80 mins
Lowe played 24 games at 79 minutes.

From memory I think graham, cooper and maybe Lewis played some Origin too on those years. So this shows that where possible the winning teams did nearly zero rotation of their second rowers with the lower grades. I’d bet those that played 23 were either injured or had 1 game rested around or after Origin.

Adding to that point, Toovey made a comment yesterday saying the second rowers are the most important part of the side. We have some guns there that it is hard to play others in that position without giving something away. Which is why once we have the points banked up we can rest them at that point.

Also wouldn’t be surprised if Frizz is rested after the next two origins, given we have shorter breaks.

 

[Crush]

All that's great but how would we ever know if our ISP players don't get game time?
Even players like Smith are part of a squad that include second tier players that can do a job and keep the Team competitive during difficult periods of injury and SOO duties.
A great example was the Cowboys last year.
Decimated by injuries but their second tier players stood tall.
Premierships are won by squads of players and a savvy coach..
Flogging the same 13 players until they collapse, is not a strategy conducive to winning the comp.

They do get game time! In the ISP!
You really think we should rest widdop just to see how our backup 5/8 would go IF widdop got injured?
Please.

 

[Crush]

Of course you can plan for them not to be there, just give the backup player 20 minutes gametime every week, seriously, 20 minutes will help prepare him and certainly won't stuff the team up.

Only in Mary's eyes it will.

Just like the field not being 97mts long ....and those damn tries from kicks stuffed us up in his eyes.

Yeah, let's not plan ahead.
Let's just hope and pray.

Just plain shite excuses.

You are finding any excuse to have a crack at the coach. We are winning the majority of our games so you criticise the way in which we are winning.
Its sad.

 

[Crush]

Of course you can plan for them not to be there, just give the backup player 20 minutes gametime every week, seriously, 20 minutes will help prepare him and certainly won't stuff the team up.

Only in Mary's eyes it will.

Just like the field not being 97mts long ....and those damn tries from kicks stuffed us up in his eyes.

Yeah, let's not plan ahead.
Let's just hope and pray.

Just plain shite excuses.

BTW you keep going back over old ground with the 97 meters thing and tries from kicks. You are clutching at straws.
Again- all coaches talk about conceding tries from kicks as a measure of the defensive line being difficult to be broken by conventional attack. I have literally heard Flanno, Bellamy and Bennett say the say thing.
And by saying if only the field was a couple of meters shorter is a way of saying we were so close but so far.
Get it?

 

[ouryears]

That’s not true though - I looked at the team, the only ones you could call ISP players would be Crichton, Phillips and maybe Egan and Hetherington. But even if Wallace were fit Katoa would’ve been on the bench, and they are better with Katoa and Egan.
So two wingers and a bench forward.
Crichtons been in the starting team since round 3 too.

Ummm, have a read boys.

Ben Ikin: Why Penrith Panthers’ injury curse is blessing in disguise

Trent Merrin of the Panthers sits on the sideline.
PENRITH are in the midst of an injury crisis but it could be a blessing in disguise.

While the Panthers are holding together with little more than strapping tape, pain killing injections and buckets of deep heat, they’re sitting equal first on the ladder

They’re blooding rookies and finding ways to win!!!!!!!!!

The trying time the club is experiencing could pay dividends come the business end of the season.

The Panthers are missing EIGHT of their top squad through injury with Nathan Cleary (MCL), Tim Browne (Ruptured bowel — Retired), Sam McKendry (Knee), Josh Mansour (Cheekbone), Dylan Edwards (Shoulder), Jed Cartwright (Leg), Moses Leota (Pectoral) and Corey Waddell (Pectoral) sidelined.

NINE... if you add Cartwright who left to join the Titans.

So.... if we lost 9 of our squad, tell me Damo and Crush, what would be our team?

I think we would need to forfeit.

The difference between our development and Panthers is like Wine and Vinegar.

Stop sugar coating!!
Face the facts.

 

[ouryears]

You are finding any excuse to have a crack at the coach. We are winning the majority of our games so you criticise the way in which we are winning.
Its sad.

CC crush.

Ummm, have a read boys.

Ben Ikin: Why Penrith Panthers’ injury curse is blessing in disguise

Trent Merrin of the Panthers sits on the sideline.
PENRITH are in the midst of an injury crisis but it could be a blessing in disguise.

While the Panthers are holding together with little more than strapping tape, pain killing injections and buckets of deep heat, they’re sitting equal first on the ladder

They’re blooding rookies and finding ways to win!!!!!!!!!

The trying time the club is experiencing could pay dividends come thebusiness end of the season.

The Panthers are missing EIGHT of their top squad through injury with Nathan Cleary (MCL), Tim Browne (Ruptured bowel — Retired), Sam McKendry (Knee), Josh Mansour (Cheekbone), Dylan Edwards (Shoulder), Jed Cartwright (Leg), Moses Leota (Pectoral) and Corey Waddell (Pectoral) sidelined.

NINE... if you add Cartwright who left to join the Titans.

So.... if we lost 9 of our squad, tell me Damo and Crush, what would be our team?

I think we would need to forfeit.

The difference between our development and Panthers is like Wine and Vinegar.

Stop being sugar coaters.

The fact you don't support development of our players beyond 600 seconds on the field each week for some of our bench, that's the joke!

 

[The Damo]

Ummm, have a read boys.

Ben Ikin: Why Penrith Panthers’ injury curse is blessing in disguise

Trent Merrin of the Panthers sits on the sideline.
PENRITH are in the midst of an injury crisis but it could be a blessing in disguise.

While the Panthers are holding together with little more than strapping tape, pain killing injections and buckets of deep heat, they’re sitting equal first on the ladder

They’re blooding rookies and finding ways to win!!!!!!!!!

The trying time the club is experiencing could pay dividends come the business end of the season.

The Panthers are missing EIGHT of their top squad through injury with Nathan Cleary (MCL), Tim Browne (Ruptured bowel — Retired), Sam McKendry (Knee), Josh Mansour (Cheekbone), Dylan Edwards (Shoulder), Jed Cartwright (Leg), Moses Leota (Pectoral) and Corey Waddell (Pectoral) sidelined.

NINE... if you add Cartwright who left to join the Titans.

So.... if we lost 9 of our squad, tell me Damo and Crush, what would be our team?

I think we would need to forfeit.

The difference between our development and Panthers is like Wine and Vinegar.

Stop sugar coating!!
Face the facts.

I’ve said before panthers have the best depth in the league.
But that doesn’t mean they had 8 ISP players in their team when they beat us. That is just not true.

Try and name the 8 ISP players in that team and the first grader who would replace them if available...

Face these facts - Cleary played. Apart from mansour, Edwards and leota none of the others would be in their first grade team.
And if mansour and Edward were fit, do you think they’d rotate players or would they be picked every week?

 

[dragon thomo]

It would be good if we could start with Host Sele Ah Man Latimore at different times not all at once, and have the Frizzels De Belins Vauhans on the bench rather then start the game at different times and not all at once.Then if the young players are going alright keep them on a spell the State Players.

 

[Saints Forever]

This comp is clearly divided in 2 halves

Top 8 and bottom 8.

Any side in the top 8 could win the comp.

We are therefore contenders.

Important that we finish in top 4 to maximise our chances.

Fire up Saints you can do this !!!!!

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

Contenders?

Not until SGI has a coach who understands he has 17 players to draw upon in any given game.

The end.