ARLC to meet expansion bidders.

[The Great Dane]

Humanity's ability to constantly repeat the mistakes of the past is at once astonishing and sad.

It's unbelievable how many people are willing to walk straight into repeating all the mistakes that RL has made in Sydney in Brisbane. Seriously it's crazy to me how every man and his dog, even reasonably smart men, are talking about a club in every measly little suburb in Brisbane when we know all the problems that kind of set up has because of our experiences in Sydney, and how much more successful cities with two big clubs are.

Then there is the fact that we are talking about promoting suburban clubs.
Promoting clubs to the top tier with the intention of them representing a larger area then they currently represent has always, always, resulted in a shit show where the people whom don't already support them resent them and outright refuse to even entertain the idea of giving the club a go at all.

Seriously, if anybody at the Raiders cared they'd be showing the contrasts between the Queanbeyan Blues/Canberra Raiders success and the Tuggeranong/Canberra Vikings multiple failures to anybody that suggests jury rigging a lower tier club into a top tier club with the intentions of it being bigger than it currently is. Seriously just throw it in their faces, and say 'listen if you want to be successful copy the Blues/Raiders model, if you want to be miserable failures that hold the whole league back then keep doing what you are doing and follow the Vikings model'.

Honestly, it's crazy to me that people are even talking about this stuff at all.

 

[Pippen94]

Humanity's ability to constantly repeat the mistakes of the past is at once astonishing and sad.

It's unbelievable how many people are willing to walk straight into repeating all the mistakes that RL has made in Sydney in Brisbane. Seriously it's crazy to me how every man and his dog, even reasonably smart men, are talking about a club in every measly little suburb in Brisbane when we know all the problems that kind of set up has because of our experiences in Sydney, and how much more successful cities with two big clubs are.

Then there is the fact that we are talking about promoting suburban clubs.
Promoting clubs to the top tier with the intention of them representing a larger area then they currently represent has always, always, resulted in a shit show where the people whom don't already support them resent them and outright refuse to even entertain the idea of giving the club a go at all.

Seriously, if anybody at the Raiders cared they'd be showing the contrasts between the Queanbeyan Blues/Canberra Raiders success and the Tuggeranong/Canberra Vikings multiple failures to anybody that suggests jury rigging a lower tier club into a top tier club with the intentions of it being bigger than it currently is. Seriously just throw it in their faces, and say 'listen if you want to be successful copy the Blues/Raiders model, if you want to be miserable failures that hold the whole league back then keep doing what you are doing and follow the Vikings model'.

Honestly, it's crazy to me that people are even talking about this stuff at all.

Well you could just repeat Crushers failure with the bombers.

 

[jim_57]

Humanity's ability to constantly repeat the mistakes of the past is at once astonishing and sad.

It's unbelievable how many people are willing to walk straight into repeating all the mistakes that RL has made in Sydney in Brisbane. Seriously it's crazy to me how every man and his dog, even reasonably smart men, are talking about a club in every measly little suburb in Brisbane when we know all the problems that kind of set up has because of our experiences in Sydney, and how much more successful cities with two big clubs are.

Then there is the fact that we are talking about promoting suburban clubs.
Promoting clubs to the top tier with the intention of them representing a larger area then they currently represent has always, always, resulted in a shit show where the people whom don't already support them resent them and outright refuse to even entertain the idea of giving the club a go at all.

Seriously, if anybody at the Raiders cared they'd be showing the contrasts between the Queanbeyan Blues/Canberra Raiders success and the Tuggeranong/Canberra Vikings multiple failures to anybody that suggests jury rigging a lower tier club into a top tier club with the intentions of it being bigger than it currently is. Seriously just throw it in their faces, and say 'listen if you want to be successful copy the Blues/Raiders model, if you want to be miserable failures that hold the whole league back then keep doing what you are doing and follow the Vikings model'.

Honestly, it's crazy to me that people are even talking about this stuff at all.

I mostly agree with this. I wouldn't be against a "semi-regional" new club like North/East/Redcliffe/Sunshine Coast or West/South/Ipswich/Logan/Toowoomba. Redcliffe or Ipswich as a direct promotion of existing QLD Cup clubs would be a mistake.

 

[Perth Red]

RL is stuck in the past and has largely been small minded for its lifespan, it doesn’t surprise me one bit the NRL’s idea of expansion is a suburban club in Brisbane.

 

[Pippen94]

I mostly agree with this. I wouldn't be against a "semi-regional" new club like North/East/Redcliffe/Sunshine Coast or West/South/Ipswich/Logan/Toowoomba. Redcliffe or Ipswich as a direct promotion of existing QLD Cup clubs would be a mistake.

Stupid idea. Team can't encompass multiple towns. Regional teams struggle financially & don't bring much to league. Focus on Brisbane to maximize 2nd biggest market.

 

[Pippen94]

RL is stuck in the past and has largely been small minded for its lifespan, it doesn’t surprise me one bit the NRL’s idea of expansion is a suburban club in Brisbane.

It's smart - Brisbane team will add far more viewers than Perth & increase TV rights - where NRL gets it's money.

 

[The Great Dane]

Well you could just repeat Crushers failure with the bombers.

The Crushers didn't go broke because they were based in the city, they wen't broke because they didn't have enough startup funds and the SL war broke out just as they were entering the competition.

You are also creating a false dichotomy, there are other options then just a suburban club or the Bombers. However, if you took the Bombers and slapped a better brand on them they'd instantly become a bid ten times better than the Dolphins.

Stupid idea. Team can't encompass multiple towns. Regional teams struggle financially & don't bring much to league. Focus on Brisbane to maximize 2nd biggest market.

Yeah because tiny suburban clubs are so much more financially stable than regional clubs!

How about instead of either a suburban club or a regional club we go for, I don't know, a big metropolitan club that represents a huge part of the city. It's not hard lol.

 

[The Great Dane]

It's smart - Brisbane team will add far more viewers than Perth & increase TV rights - where NRL gets it's money.

It's a false dichotomy, it shouldn't be either Brisbane or Perth, it should be both.

Also the Perth market has a lot of things going for it that Brisbane doesn't have, namely a it adds a unique time slot.

 

[Pippen94]

The Crushers didn't go broke because they were based in the city, they wen't broke because they didn't have enough startup funds and the SL war broke out just as they were entering the competition.

You are also creating a false dichotomy, there are other options then just a suburban club or the Bombers. However, if you took the Bombers and slapped a better brand on them they'd instantly become a bid ten times better than the Dolphins.



Yeah because tiny suburban clubs are so much more financially stable than regional clubs!

How about instead of either a suburban club or a regional club we go for, I don't know, a big metropolitan club that represents a huge part of the city. It's not hard lol.

Crushers failed because there was no reason for fans to support as Broncos covered same area. Cowboys survived SL with much smaller market.
Change the bombers name, but they still face same problem that there's an existing team fulfilling need. This has never worked in any sporting competition in the world.
After Broncos which teams are more valuable to NRL? All suburban teams like Parramatta & South's. Melbourne provide only one big TV rating a year otherwise nothing & that's a market of 5 million. NRL is built on suburban teams & that is great strength as it provides large audience in city which is basis for broadcasting deal.

 

[jim_57]

Stupid idea. Team can't encompass multiple towns. Regional teams struggle financially & don't bring much to league. Focus on Brisbane to maximize 2nd biggest market.

What? You're the one advocating 'Redcliffe', the majority of Brisbane have f**k all to do with Redcliffe. Having the whole of Brisbane and South East QLD to target and going with Redcliffe is a far stupider idea.

"Teams can't encompass multiple towns" but somehow Redcliffe is going to be a good fit for a 2nd Brisbane team? Redcliffe is 40kms from Brisbane's CBD, 80kms from Ipswich & 70kms from Logan.

 

[Pippen94]

What? You're the one advocating 'Redcliffe', the majority of Brisbane have f**k all to do with Redcliffe. Having the whole of Brisbane and South East QLD to target and going with Redcliffe is a far stupider idea.

"Teams can't encompass multiple towns" but somehow Redcliffe is going to be a good fit for a 2nd Brisbane team? Redcliffe is 40kms from Brisbane's CBD, 80kms from Ipswich & 70kms from Logan.

Nobody is expecting Dolphins to represent Logan & Ipswich - only people like you trying to discredit bid. Support will in north. Stupid to bring up other regions.
Half half team representing part of Brisbane & Toowoomba or sunshine coast is good way to get luke warm interest in all areas. Dumb concept.

 

[Vee]

It's a false dichotomy, it shouldn't be either Brisbane or Perth, it should be both.

Also the Perth market has a lot of things going for it that Brisbane doesn't have, namely a it adds a unique time slot.

And edges closer to a NATIONAL Rugby League. And opens new markets, creating opportunities for national sponsorships.

 

[mongoose]

Crushers failed because there was no reason for fans to support as Broncos covered same area. Cowboys survived SL with much smaller market.
Change the bombers name, but they still face same problem that there's an existing team fulfilling need. This has never worked in any sporting competition in the world.
After Broncos which teams are more valuable to NRL? All suburban teams like Parramatta & South's. Melbourne provide only one big TV rating a year otherwise nothing & that's a market of 5 million. NRL is built on suburban teams & that is great strength as it provides large audience in city which is basis for broadcasting deal.

The Crushers inaugural year they averaged 21k. Their failure had nothing to do with sharing the same area as Brisbane. They were killed off during Super League. Geez I am sick to death of listening to people pointing to the Super League period as a reason not to expand to certain areas. It's always the same dumb ill informed argument from these people. "Perth already failed, gold coast already failed, Adelaide already failed" Well so did South Sydney, you know the 112 year old club, pride of the League, right in the centre of Sydney? But we let them back in.

The Broncos and the Storm are the best managed, best resourced and probably best sponsored teams in the NRL and there is a reason for that. The Storm games on fox are usually amongst the highest rating as well.

 

[Perth Red]

It's smart - Brisbane team will add far more viewers than Perth & increase TV rights - where NRL gets it's money.

Not convinced it will be that great a tv audience increase or that ch9 is going to stump up a lot more cash for it. It’s not extra content and I do t see many people inBrisbane who are not RL fans and watching nrl now tuning in because of the new team, at least perth you have a lot of conversion opportunity and real growth to aim for with 2million people not currently watching nrl.

Melbourne get crap tv audiences On fta because Ch9 buried exposure to the nrl in Melbourne for decades. Even now it’s only shown on a secondary digital channel. Stick nrl on a digital channel only in Brisbane and see how the audiences go. You can see by their large pay tv audiences that they are a much watched team.

 

[Pippen94]

Not convinced it will be that great a tv audience increase or that ch9 is going to stump up a lot more cash for it. It’s not extra content and I do t see many people inBrisbane who are not RL fans and watching nrl now tuning in because of the new team, at least perth you have a lot of conversion opportunity and real growth to aim for with 2million people not currently watching nrl.

Melbourne get crap tv audiences On fta because Ch9 buried exposure to the nrl in Melbourne for decades. Even now it’s only shown on a secondary digital channel. Stick nrl on a digital channel only in Brisbane and see how the audiences go. You can see by their large pay tv audiences that they are a much watched team.

Swans existed for 38 years & still can't draw a TV audience in Sydney. Storm average 20,000 or less in Melbourne. Perth will do similar numbers stuck on 7mate.
Brisbane is 2nd biggest market for NRL. When Brisbane play overall audience jumps tremendously. Another Brisbane will always add more viewers increasing broadcasting deal where nrl gets it's money.

 

[Perth Red]

Swans existed for 38 years & still can't draw a TV audience in Sydney. Storm average 20,000 or less in Melbourne. Perth will do similar numbers stuck on 7mate.
Brisbane is 2nd biggest market for NRL. When Brisbane play overall audience jumps tremendously. Another Brisbane will always add more viewers increasing broadcasting deal where nrl gets it's money.

how many is that jump? I can’t find any evidence one way or the other. All that proves is if you bury the game on digital you will get small audiences. When on fta perth gets 100k viewers. Put the games on main channel and let’s see what the game can do.

looking at the nrl’s need to increase revenue to get near afl levels it is clear they are going to need to do a lot more than add a second game in brisbane every other week. That is going to cost $13million a year plus a bye which fans don’t like. Is tv going to stump up more than $15million ish for those few extra Brisbane viewers. At least a ninth game gives you extra content and 700k-million extra viewers a week if on fta. Surely that must be worth more money than 30-50k extra people in Brisbane watching once a week when the second team is on fta?

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

Titans coach welcomes NRL expansion talk
Ed Jackson
Australian Associated Press28 February 2020, 2:53 pm
The more, the merrier.

That's the attitude of Gold Coast coach Justin Holbrook as speculation intensifies the NRL is preparing to announce a second Brisbane team to enter the competition in 2023.

The ARL Commission is reportedly going to discuss up to five submissions from Brisbane-based consortia when it meets next month and discusses expansion plans.

Despite speculation a third NRL club in south-east Queensland could threaten the Titans' own future, Holbrook held no concerns.

"The numbers are increasing all the time and obviously the population's increasing so it makes more sense to have more teams up here doesn't it?," Holbrook said.

"I'm not against it that's for sure."

Titans head of culture and performance Mal Meninga expressed on Tuesday concerns a second Brisbane team would put pressure on the Gold Coast club.

That prompted NRL chief executive Todd Greenberg to state he saw a "bright, long future" for the Titans.

Holbrook said, in his view, expansion could only be a boost for the competition as a whole.

"I think expansion is a good idea," he said.

"I think there's enough talented players playing rugby league in the country so I think, yeah, I'd be happy with another Brisbane team.

"I'd be happy with another team in Perth.

"The more the better I think. The game's growing and we should grow with it.

I agree with Holbrook, and think Mals concerns arent warranted about a new team being a threat, it themselves that are their biggest threat.

If there was a 3rd Brisbane team, it would actually bring more fans to the Gold Coast for their away games. More derbies etc amongst the 3 clubs in that SE region. Stating the bleeding obvious that Titans need Sustained success on the field. They’ve filled their stadium when this has been the case, but they’ve kissed too many frogs lately.

 

[jim_57]

Nobody is expecting Dolphins to represent Logan & Ipswich - only people like you trying to discredit bid. Support will in north. Stupid to bring up other regions.
Half half team representing part of Brisbane & Toowoomba or sunshine coast is good way to get luke warm interest in all areas. Dumb concept.

Like Brisbane are popular all along the Coast and Cowboys have plenty of fans outside of Townsville? They don't have to play games there but their reach should extend that far.

Again why limit the 2nd 'Brisbane' team to Redcliffe who represent shit all of Brisbane? Redcliffe is literally a dead end, the stadium isn't easy to get to anybody not already in Redcliffe. The Dolphins are a great QLD Cup team, but that's where they should stay unless they are willing to total overhaul their brand and reach far beyond their suburb.

Western Corridor have at least acknowledged they'd represent Ipswich, Logan, the South & West of Brisbane and target fans as far out as Toowoomba. If Redcliffe aren't willing to stretch their appeal a bit then that bid blows them out of the water not to mention any others.

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

The Crushers inaugural year they averaged 21k. Their failure had nothing to do with sharing the same area as Brisbane. They were killed off during Super League. Geez I am sick to death of listening to people pointing to the Super League period as a reason not to expand to certain areas. It's always the same dumb ill informed argument from these people. "Perth already failed, gold coast already failed, Adelaide already failed" Well so did South Sydney, you know the 112 year old club, pride of the League, right in the centre of Sydney? But we let them back in.

This. Absolutely this.

The Crushers, Reds and Rams all drew highly respectable average crowds in their first year, even despite their mixed results on the field. They all ceased for various reasons after Super League and the ARL got back together in 1998. That’s over 20 years ago.

 

[The Great Dane]

Change the bombers name, but they still face same problem that there's an existing team fulfilling need. This has never worked in any sporting competition in the world.

Utd and City, Jets and Giants, Lakers and Clippers, Celtic and Rangers, Boca Juniors and River Plate, West Coast and Fremantle, Yankees and Mets, I could go on, and on, and on, and on, but I shouldn't need to so I won't.

After Broncos which teams are more valuable to NRL? All suburban teams like Parramatta & South's. Melbourne provide only one big TV rating a year otherwise nothing & that's a market of 5 million.

Nope, you are just wrong.

It's definitely Broncos first, then Warriors, then probably Melbourne, then a few of the bigger Sydney clubs, then after that who knows they'd all be of a relatively similar value.

NRL is built on suburban teams & that is great strength as it provides large audience in city which is basis for broadcasting deal.

The Suburban clubs are only a "great strength" if your plan is to never seriously grow beyond the borders of Sydney.

If the idea is to have a Sydney comp with some token ring-ins from outside, then somebody call John Ribot because we need another Super League.