Axed Eels pair 'no loss'

[The Colonel]

Axed Eels pair 'no loss'
By Ian Gerrard
May 18, 2006

PARRAMATTA fans worried how the Eels might fare against Penrith tomorrow night without premier league-bound Tim Smith and Mark Riddell need not worry.

According to a drug and alcohol expert they wouldn't have been much good anyway.
The players were fined $5000 and dropped to premier league after teammates found them drinking at a Parramatta hotel shortly after midday on Monday - less than two hours before both were due at a recovery session.
National Drug and Alcohol Research Centre fellow Anthony Shakeshaft said the two players would have had a difficult time attending midweek training sessions and being in optimum physical shape for tomorrow night's game at Penrith.
"Because alcohol affects the part of your brain that affects body movement and co-ordination, footballers, which require a high level of coordination, would take a long time to get that back," Shakeshaft said.
Smith, 21, arrived drunk at a 2.30pm training session on Monday while Riddell, 24, failed to show at all.
The pair were discovered drinking shortly after midday on Monday at the Rose and Crown Hotel - just a few hours before Brian Smith resigned as Parramatta coach.
Shakeshaft said assuming the pair consumed more than 14 schooners of beer in a drinking session that began on Sunday night and continued during Monday, it would have taken them at least three days to fully recover without taking part in regular Parramatta training sessions.
He said it took about an hour for each standard drink to clear the body.
"You're looking to at least Tuesday morning to clean the alcohol," the doctor said. "Your kidneys don't rehydrate properly because your liver and kidney are caught up metabolising the alcohol and they don't extract enough water out of your urine.
"If you have any injury ... it won't repair body tissue or repair body activations as effectively. I don't think they would be much good before Thursday and any additional training will further dehydrate them."
He said sportspeople recovering from weekend binge drinking sessions would take longer to recover from midweek training.
Interim coach Jason Taylor axed the two players during his first full day on the job on Tuesday, sending them back to premier league for at least one week.
Parramatta has won just two of its first nine matches and sits near the bottom of the NRL ladder. Shakeshaft said because Smith, who weighs 93kg, was lighter than Riddell (100kg), it would take him longer to recover from the drinking session.

The Australian
http://foxsports.news.com.au/story/0,8659,19171549-23214,00.html

 

[strider]

well bugger me - no wonder i didn't make it as a footballer - too much bloody beer!!! ..... f**k - someone get me a drink

 

[Parraboy]

Yet another example of the media digging into a pile of horse sh*t for a story!!
Players have been getting on the drink for years and all of a sudden they can't recover! Please, the other week after the test, players were drinking at the after match party yet turned up the next day and were the best on field.

Pay it no mind, these two guys will probably have blinders this weekend!

 

[PB]

Yet another example of the media digging into a pile of horse sh*t for a story!!
Players have been getting on the drink for years and all of a sudden they can't recover! Please, the other week after the test, players were drinking at the after match party yet turned up the next day and were the best on field.

Pay it no mind, these two guys will probably have blinders this weekend!

How is this horse sh!t. It's fact, it's science.

You can get away with having mid week beers at park level, but to play at your best, which is what we expect, you have to be in the best possible shape. And with the money these guys are paid, is it too much to ask these guys to prepare themselves as best as possible!

I hope every player reads this and takes notice. Infact they should already know this.

 

[eelz47]

but they are always on the cans

 

[Glenn]

Ahhh strange where was this when Reni was fined for drinking??

 

[Nickeel]

Ahhh strange where was this when Reni was fined for drinking??

See, he was fine, because the concentration and exertion involved in driving after drinking allowed him to burn off some of the excess intoxication. :lol:

Nick

 

[Bigfella]

It was interesting to read the articles about Danny Green and in particular the quotes from Hayden Knowles about his levels of fitness and preparation.

The focus of the story was the fact that Green had turned around his training, and in particular his nutrition. Knowles was claiming Green to be utilising the highest standards of nutrition, diet and supplements.

Interesting in 2 respects:

1. Mundine was generally regarded as being fitter on the night
2. Some of our leading players are on the grog midweek. THis was detected by other team mates - who mumped into them AT THE PUB FOR LUNCH

It would seem to me quite possible that either:

A. Our trainers are not at the cutting edge level that they would have us belive in their frequent media reports and /or

B. Even if they are, the same standards are not being imposed on our players.

Thoughts?

I know everyone who knows Knowles and his partner have the highest regard for them as people. But surely our player's physical preparation has been an issue this season?

 

[Hurriflatch]

So Hayden is meant to hold Riddell's hand 24/7 to keep him away from the drink??

 

[Bigfella]

Hold his hand, no.

Monitor his skin fold, hydration, weight and fitness levels - yes.

Ensure that he achieves the best possible levels - rather than maintaining an acceptable minimum - yes.

Be aware that serious abuses of discipline are ocvcurring - possibly?

Put a side on the field each week that doesn;t contain unfir and overweight forwards, who can play as well in the second half as they do in the first half - yes.

 

[Hurriflatch]

1. Agreed
2. Agreed
3. Thats fair, but the trainers can only do such much if the players just don't care.
4. Agreed
5. Can't see how much the trainers can be blamed for that for all we know they may have been telling BRian that these players are not fit but they still get picked.

 

[Bigfella]

I agree wholeheartedly with your last point Hurri. One of those situations where no one individual can be blamed (but several share the responsibility).

Obviously the individual player - who stands to earn more money than any of the others with the possible exception of the coach - is ultimately responsible for these issues.

Coaching staff must also take some responsibility.

Just a discussion point which I think raises some interesting issues.

You are also right when you say that we as outsiders will never know the details of who is doing / saying what...

 

[parralight]

Your on the money Bigfella - its an interesting topic and I have bought it up before. How about the much anticipated 'tackle machine' that would have everyone tackling like Nathan Hindmarsh ?
To be fair to Hayden though, Mundine is a freakish athlete and Danny Green is more a park fighter who can take a punch.
Its true Hayden Knowles cant hold their hand all the time but there is no doubt that the players are not as fit both mentally and physiclaly as they could be.
I wonder of there are any fines / demotion for excess weight/skin fold tests/ degradation in training times.
I know at the Broncos that any player that displays problems in that dept are dropped and fined.
I do hope that the same approach applies at Parra.

All of our problems can be fixed with rigid discipline (I sound like some Nazi !!) but its true. The blokes know how to play football.

 

[eeelectroshooting?]

How is this horse sh!t. It's fact, it's science.

You can get away with having mid week beers at park level, but to play at your best, which is what we expect, you have to be in the best possible shape. And with the money these guys are paid, is it too much to ask these guys to prepare themselves as best as possible!

I hope every player reads this and takes notice. Infact they should already know this.

no it really is pretty much horse sh!t. this is science from a yr8 textbook.

they dont take into consideration that exercise immediately following a bout of drinking, leads to a marked increase in circulation. and thus a greater rate of meatbolism of the alcohol. thereby reducing the longevity of the residual effects of the alcohol.

this 'doctor' is incorrect in saying kidneys metabolise alcohol. and that they wont 'rehydrate' after drinking. firstly the body's primary sourse of hydration is via water uptake in the large intestine. secondly, the kidneys have almost 1800L of blood running through each of them each day, this is more than adequate to filter even the largest drinking binge. so there's no extra load on the kidneys that they cant handle. also, kidneys work by increasing the excretion of waste products to the bladder when they're in larger concentrations. so after drinking, theres a greater amount of alcohol metabolites - this causes greater water conservation (reuptake) and greater excretion of waste products (alcohol meatabolites). hence why you urine is yellow; less dilute then normal because of water conservation.

and finally as for repairing injuries. pfft. totally unrelated events.

so this doctor who's a drug and alcohol expert, may not be up to scratch on their basic renal and injury physilogy. back to school :arrow:

dont believe everything you read

 

[Redback71]

sounds a bit shackey to me

 

[PB]

no it really is pretty much horse sh!t. this is science from a yr8 textbook.

they dont take into consideration that exercise immediately following a bout of drinking, leads to a marked increase in circulation. and thus a greater rate of meatbolism of the alcohol. thereby reducing the longevity of the residual effects of the alcohol.

There is no excersice immediatly after alcohol intake, because they get sent home from training (or don't show up). So ineffect they are getting no exercise. So between the high calories in alcohol and the the fact that alcohol is known to interfere with the bodies absorption of vitamins and minerals, itis effectively slowing down the processing of Carbs and proteins. So they become fat pigs!

this 'doctor' is incorrect in saying kidneys metabolise alcohol. and that they wont 'rehydrate' after drinking. firstly the body's primary sourse of hydration is via water uptake in the large intestine. secondly, the kidneys have almost 1800L of blood running through each of them each day, this is more than adequate to filter even the largest drinking binge. so there's no extra load on the kidneys that they cant handle. also, kidneys work by increasing the excretion of waste products to the bladder when they're in larger concentrations. so after drinking, theres a greater amount of alcohol metabolites - this causes greater water conservation (reuptake) and greater excretion of waste products (alcohol meatabolites). hence why you urine is yellow; less dilute then normal because of water conservation.

Alcohol stimulates the kidneys to produce urine, so alcohol consumption can make the body lose fluids and become dehydrated. They then require recovery time. That is time not spent on the training paddock, that equals reduced performance at the end of the week.

and finally as for repairing injuries. pfft. totally unrelated events.

Alcohol has been found to interfere with carb loading in muscles it's comonly known as muscle-glycogensynthesis (see i paid attention to the team doctor at Footy training), and it lengthens recvoery and re-hab time. - Again, apart form muscle and strength deterioration there is less time on training paddock, and reduced performance come Friday night.

dont believe everything you read

Different text books say different things.
I don't, neither should you.

 

[Eelectrica]

Sounds like the original author of this article was right after all.
Lesson to be learned their from Tim Smith. I guess it's best he learn it now in a busted season than in a season with the possibility of a finals appearance.

 

[eeelectroshooting?]

There is no excersice immediatly after alcohol intake, because they get sent home from training (or don't show up). So ineffect they are getting no exercise. So between the high calories in alcohol and the the fact that alcohol is known to interfere with the bodies absorption of vitamins and minerals, itis effectively slowing down the processing of Carbs and proteins. So they become fat pigs!



Alcohol stimulates the kidneys to produce urine, so alcohol consumption can make the body lose fluids and become dehydrated. They then require recovery time. That is time not spent on the training paddock, that equals reduced performance at the end of the week.

Alcohol has been found to interfere with carb loading in muscles it's comonly known as muscle-glycogensynthesis (see i paid attention to the team doctor at Footy training), and it lengthens recvoery and re-hab time. - Again, apart form muscle and strength deterioration there is less time on training paddock, and reduced performance come Friday night.



Different text books say different things.
I don't, neither should you.

im currently working on my phd in physiology (more muscle physiology...but anyway) so im reading up to date journal articles. I think i can trust the latest research to an extent.

A lot of what u say is true though, but not the whole picture. The high caloric content of alcohol for heavy, regular drinkers can turn them into fat pigs. However, most people would have noticed that initially after a couple of drinks you'll feel an energy burst (due to the high calories of alcohol). Yet this energy is gone; used up quickly in rapid bursts, this is why if you stop at a couple of drinks you often feel tired and drowzy. so for elite, non-alcoholic, athletes this isnt the biggest issue. (although piggy should be on the spritis rather than beer)

also true that alcohol is a diuretic (which i conveniently forgot having a dig at the doctor ) but this initial water loss is so easily recovered that its no a big issue. down side - as you said is that vitamins and minerals are lost as well.

Alcohol is metabolised at a peak rate in healthy people at roughly 15g/hr (from memory, could be wrong). so a dozen standard drinks will take about 10hrs. In this time period the liver preferentially gets rid of the alcohol, some other processes are slowed such as glycogenesis. But this is only a slight delay. and only a slight hinderance on recovery of muscle glucose stores.

Anyway... I guess my point is that the articles in the papers miss the point. The physical detrimental effects of the alcohol isnt really the problem. The problem is attitude, and the example it sets to junior players. The paradox (for want of a better word) of the situation is that with the position the team is in, this is the last thing you want your players doing. Yet, it is because of the position the team is in thats driving them to drink. Confidence is such a double edged sword.