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Bear/Reds Merger

Vee

Bench
Messages
4,291
Not sure if this has been suggested before but it may not be as silly as most of the suggestions on here.

It would take some high powered negotiations and some egos would have to be put aside but could be a way to kill several birds with one stone.

My idea is for the NS Bears, the Perth Pirates and Puddy backed Reds to come together as one. WANRL to handle the local comp and pathways, Bears to handle NS juniors and pathways to the NRL side that would play in a Reds strip in Perth and a Bears strip in Sydney.

You get WA into the comp as a new market, Bears juniors reinvigorated with proper pathways, Bears colours back against traditional rivals, kicking goals left and right.

PR, the egos too big for this?
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
49,717
I know the bears talked to Puddy and he didn’t sound impressed with how the meeting went. I don’t think from a perth rl fans point of view that the brand would be off putting. My greatest concern would always be is it a genuine perth club or a Sydney club using perth to get back in the nrl? There in lies the real problem!

I don’t see that the Bears really bring a lot to the table tbh. They don’t have much cash to put in to a club, a perth club could partner with a qrl or nsw cup club in same way Storm do for a jnr and feeder set up and the constant white anting by the east coast media to get the bears back as a Sydney club would become very irksome. Personally I’d prefer to see a perth owned club with its own jnr systems through an improved nrlwa system and sides in hm, sg and nsw cup. Not a cheap option or short fix option but would mean we’d see a lot more players come out of WA

I don’t know what the relationship between puddy and Cummins is but ideally they’d be coming together to put money on the table and joint own with NRLWA having a share and a seat at the directors table . Sage’s ego is far too big and I get the sense he only wants an nrl club so he can offset the running costs of the glory by combining operations of the two entities.

 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
5,634
Not sure if this has been suggested before but it may not be as silly as most of the suggestions on here.

It would take some high powered negotiations and some egos would have to be put aside but could be a way to kill several birds with one stone.

My idea is for the NS Bears, the Perth Pirates and Puddy backed Reds to come together as one. WANRL to handle the local comp and pathways, Bears to handle NS juniors and pathways to the NRL side that would play in a Reds strip in Perth and a Bears strip in Sydney.

You get WA into the comp as a new market, Bears juniors reinvigorated with proper pathways, Bears colours back against traditional rivals, kicking goals left and right.

PR, the egos too big for this?
It's been suggested dozens of times and it should never happen, and almost certainly never will.

Frankly the Bears wouldn't bring much to the relationship aside from their brand, which wouldn't be that valuable in WA whom should be the target audience, and they'd more or less demand control over the club. I also doubt that the Bears would actually be willing to commit to WA, they'd almost certainly just use Perth as a stepping stone back into the NRL, then slowly increase their presence in Sydney and decrease it in Perth until the Perth portion of the relationship was token at best.

In other words WA/Perth doesn't want or need the Bears, and the Bears would only want WA/Perth because of what WA could give them, and that's not the foundations of a good relationship.

In saying all that it could work if it was a Fitzroy style situation where through some means all of the Bears valuable assets were sold to a club in Perth/wherever, which would effectively get the Bears brand back into the NRL but under the control of a new club.
However, who knows whether or not that would be a better outcome for Perth than resurrecting the Reds or using a new brand (you'd need to do some market research, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that the Bears brand wouldn't be the best fit for Perth). Also the likelihood of that ever feasibly happening without the Bears consent is slim to none, and I can't see any reasonable circumstances where the Bears would agree to such a sale.
 

Vee

Bench
Messages
4,291
I get the concern about the Bears plotting to return by stealth but just write it into the licence it is a WA team. The side would have the benefit of NS juniors and a support base in Sydney.
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
49,717
I get the concern about the Bears plotting to return by stealth but just write it into the licence it is a WA team. The side would have the benefit of NS juniors and a support base in Sydney.
Like they did for the the Northern Sea-eagles must play in Gosford? Hmmm.

Only way it would work if WA owners had a majority share holding. But the white anting would still be going on and the "dream" of the Sydney fans one day seeing Bears relocate back. All that for a few hundred old timers in Sydney that probably wouldnt go to games and Jnrs we could get with a feeder club arrangement anyway? No thanks
 

Vee

Bench
Messages
4,291
Like they did for the the Northern Sea-eagles must play in Gosford? Hmmm.

Only way it would work if WA owners had a majority share holding. But the white anting would still be going on and the "dream" of the Sydney fans one day seeing Bears relocate back. All that for a few hundred old timers in Sydney that probably wouldnt go to games and Jnrs we could get with a feeder club arrangement anyway? No thanks
Yeah, write it in that the license goes to WA in the event of a split, same as Manly in the NE version and WA absolutely have a majority holding.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
5,634
I get the concern about the Bears plotting to return by stealth but just write it into the licence it is a WA team. The side would have the benefit of NS juniors and a support base in Sydney.
Juniors maybe, fans no.

I'm a Bears fan, what's left of the fanbase that is in a position to become active supporters is a miniscule number, and of them the vast majority would be unwilling to support a relocated club long term unless they thought it'd lead to a resurrection in Sydney.

I have no doubt that the Bears would initially return to massive fanfare if they were reintroduced to the NRL, relocated or not, however once that novelty wore off and the realities of the costs associated with supporting an NRL side became clear the majority of that support would quickly dissipate.

In the end you'd be left with thousands of people whom would claim the Bears to be their favourite team when asked, but wouldn't actually support the club financially or in any meaningful way, and a tiny group of hardcores whom actively support the club in Sydney.

In other words what little support they brought to the partnership would almost certainly be offset by people in the target audience (Perth in this case) that were turned off by being lumped with Sydney's sloppy seconds.
Yeah, write it in that the license goes to WA in the event of a split, same as Manly in the NE version and WA absolutely have a majority holding.
You mean like how it was written into the St. George Illawarra merger that the Dragons would slowly relocate the majority of their home games to Wollongong over their first decade, but as soon as the Dragons had control of the club they purged all the Steelers identity and history from the club and did the exact opposite...

A contract isn't worth the paper it's written on unless you have somebody to enforce it, and history shows us that the NRL isn't willing to enforce these sorts of deals, and if anything will help the clubs circumvent them as soon as they become inconvenient.

Besides, you still haven't actually shown any major benefits to the Bears co-opting an expansion side except that it'd give some folk in Sydney a nostalgia hit. This sort short term of Sydney-centric thinking is one of the biggest ball and chains around the sport's neck...
 

flippikat

Bench
Messages
3,231
Also, there's nothing stopping Perth (or any other potential NRL bid) taking red & black as bid colors, then the Bears would have even less of a leg to stand on.
 
Messages
6,017
Also, there's nothing stopping Perth (or any other potential NRL bid) taking red & black as bid colors, then the Bears would have even less of a leg to stand on.
Let's hope Wests Panthers and Norths Devils form a joint bid to enter the NRL as the Brisbane Devils, in red and black.

A Christchurch bid could use the same colours.

The Bears brand isn't worth shit in 2022 and the only people who care for it are dinosaurs from a bygone era.
 

flippikat

Bench
Messages
3,231
Let's hope Wests Panthers and Norths Devils form a joint bid to enter the NRL as the Brisbane Devils, in red and black.

A Christchurch bid could use the same colours.

The Bears brand isn't worth shit in 2022 and the only people who care for it are dinosaurs from a bygone era.

It doesn't matter which bid comes up with red & black, but it's a classic sports color scheme that's painfully absent in our competition. I think your Panthers/Devils idea may be a bit fanciful. I imagine a key question is "do they have an asset base & revenue that the Tigers/Firehawks & Dolphins have?" They didn't put forward a bid last time around, would North Brisbane and/or West Brisbane be in a position next time?

More likely may be that the Firehawks bid is re-worked, and IT turns to red & black for a color set, instead of the orange/yellow/blue set it had in the last bid phase.

On another tack, it was a deft move by the A-League Western Sydney club to select those colors for it's look - a great contrast with Sydney FC AND a fair grab at those colors that (aside from 2nd/3rd tier RU & RL teams) weren't being used by top tier teams in the Sydney sports market.
 
Messages
6,017
It doesn't matter which bid comes up with red & black, but it's a classic sports color scheme that's painfully absent in our competition. I think your Panthers/Devils idea may be a bit fanciful. I imagine a key question is "do they have an asset base & revenue that the Tigers/Firehawks & Dolphins have?" They didn't put forward a bid last time around, would North Brisbane and/or West Brisbane be in a position next time?

More likely may be that the Firehawks bid is re-worked, and IT turns to red & black for a color set, instead of the orange/yellow/blue set it had in the last bid phase.

On another tack, it was a deft move by the A-League Western Sydney club to select those colors for it's look - a great contrast with Sydney FC AND a fair grab at those colors that (aside from 2nd/3rd tier RU & RL teams) weren't being used by top tier teams in the Sydney sports market.
A Christchurch based team would be perfect with red and black.
 

flippikat

Bench
Messages
3,231
A Christchurch based team would be perfect with red and black.
The long term set-up I'd love to see in NZ is 3 NZ teams.

North Island Warriors (Auckland based, classic Warriors colors of Blue/white with red & green trim, game a year in Hamilton or Rotorua)

Central Orcas or Cyclones or Rockets (Wellington based, black & gold, game a year in Napier or New Plymouth.. ) - name ideas - either the Wellington Orcas name, or the recent Cyclones bid name or Rockets in honor of the Rocketlab launch site on Mahia Penninsula.

South Island Katipo (Christchurch based, red & black, game a year in Dunedin) - named after the native red & black venomous spider.

Basically NZ split in 3..
Warriors: Northland, Auckland, Waikato, Bay of Plenty, King Country/Taupo
Rockets: Taranaki, Manawatu, Hawkes Bay/Gisborne, Wairarapa, Wellington
Katipo: South Island.
 

flippikat

Bench
Messages
3,231
one problem with a bears and reds merger is neither of them are in the NRL. The reds should merge with the Tigers and they could be in the NRL by 23.
The Bears offer little to Perth except anxiety that somehow the expansion team may a backdoor way to getting North Sydney back, and the whole thing will be shipped back to NSW at the first sign of trouble.

A merger/relocation with an existing NRL club would be a surefire way to get in, but it's not likely to happen given the governing body's (NSWRL, then ARL, now NRL) history of bailouts with little-to-no strings attached... and any such move has to be irreversible.

The creation of the independent commission was a golden opportunity to water-down the power of club self-interest, but like damn near everything else it got botched.
 

Colk

Juniors
Messages
1,847
The long term set-up I'd love to see in NZ is 3 NZ teams.

North Island Warriors (Auckland based, classic Warriors colors of Blue/white with red & green trim, game a year in Hamilton or Rotorua)

Central Orcas or Cyclones or Rockets (Wellington based, black & gold, game a year in Napier or New Plymouth.. ) - name ideas - either the Wellington Orcas name, or the recent Cyclones bid name or Rockets in honor of the Rocketlab launch site on Mahia Penninsula.

South Island Katipo (Christchurch based, red & black, game a year in Dunedin) - named after the native red & black venomous spider.

Basically NZ split in 3..
Warriors: Northland, Auckland, Waikato, Bay of Plenty, King Country/Taupo
Rockets: Taranaki, Manawatu, Hawkes Bay/Gisborne, Wairarapa, Wellington
Katipo: South Island.

Lovely idea but it would mean you have to have about 22 to 24 teams in the comp.

You still should have sides in Perth, perhaps in Adelaide with maybe another in Qld. It would be hard to see the game get to that amount of sides and you would need a massive injection of talent to come through. Either that or you are banking on rationalisation of Sydney teams, which is unlikely to happen either.
 

flippikat

Bench
Messages
3,231
Lovely idea but it would mean you have to have about 22 to 24 teams in the comp.

You still should have sides in Perth, perhaps in Adelaide with maybe another in Qld. It would be hard to see the game get to that amount of sides and you would need a massive injection of talent to come through. Either that or you are banking on rationalisation of Sydney teams, which is unlikely to happen either.
With NZ 2 looking like it's under strong consideration for the 18th team, we could be 2/3rds of the way there very soon.

I realise a 3rd NZ team is a tough sell, and without some rationalization of Sydney it may have to wait for a 22 team competition.. but I don't think it's that far fetched IF the NRL really want to capitalize on a market here that's very rugby-friendly (league and union) and could really strike hard against RU.
 
Messages
6,017
The long term set-up I'd love to see in NZ is 3 NZ teams.

North Island Warriors (Auckland based, classic Warriors colors of Blue/white with red & green trim, game a year in Hamilton or Rotorua)

Central Orcas or Cyclones or Rockets (Wellington based, black & gold, game a year in Napier or New Plymouth.. ) - name ideas - either the Wellington Orcas name, or the recent Cyclones bid name or Rockets in honor of the Rocketlab launch site on Mahia Penninsula.

South Island Katipo (Christchurch based, red & black, game a year in Dunedin) - named after the native red & black venomous spider.

Basically NZ split in 3..
Warriors: Northland, Auckland, Waikato, Bay of Plenty, King Country/Taupo
Rockets: Taranaki, Manawatu, Hawkes Bay/Gisborne, Wairarapa, Wellington
Katipo: South Island.
Three teams would be perfect for NZ. A Wellington team would be good as it would ensure the capitals of Australia and NZ are represented and can face off on ANZAC Day.

We need to get rid of the Roosters vs Dragons "ANZAC CUP" game, which is just a money grab by two low drawing Sydney clubs to draw a crowd that matches what the Broncos get at Lang Park 12 times a year.

Let the Canberra Raiders and Wellington Orcas battle it out for the ANZAC Cup, rotating each year between Canberra and Wellington, so that the game can mean something to everyone in Australia and NZ.
 
Messages
6,017
one problem with a bears and reds merger is neither of them are in the NRL. The reds should merge with the Tigers and they could be in the NRL by 23.
The people pushing for the Reds to merge with Bears don't have a clue and think the world begins and ends in Sydney. Even if the merger did happen it wouldn't result in anything productive because one team is dead and the other hasn't been in the NRL since 1999. Like you said, the Tigers should relocate to Perth and rebrand as the Western Tigers.
 
Messages
6,017
Lovely idea but it would mean you have to have about 22 to 24 teams in the comp.

You still should have sides in Perth, perhaps in Adelaide with maybe another in Qld. It would be hard to see the game get to that amount of sides and you would need a massive injection of talent to come through. Either that or you are banking on rationalisation of Sydney teams, which is unlikely to happen either.
I fear the game will become a niche sport, just like onionball, if it doesn't rationalise Sydney and expand to Adelaide, Perth, Bris 3, NZ 2 and NZ 3. The NSW rah rah fans think that that the Sydney onionball club competition, I think it's called the Shute Shield, should be the top level of the sport in Australia. If that were to happen then onionball would die off altogether outside of Sydney.
 
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