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Benny wants the gig.

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276
Not quite the story, is it? Although it is one of the great (awful) stories that was never told, and probably not known by 99% of Warriors fans that not only did Wayne f**king Scurrah give 3x premiership coach Ivan Cleary the axe (and by design, his Immortal-bound son), he also refused to sign 3x premiership coach Craig Bellamy because he wouldn't break a contract and come one year early.
Wait... what? Are you saying Bellamy was ready to come over to replace Bluey if we had waited a season? Seriously?
 

Penrose Warrior

First Grade
Messages
8,637
Wait... what? Are you saying Bellamy was ready to come over to replace Bluey if we had waited a season? Seriously?
That's the story I've heard in more than a few places, yes...

But Elliott wowed them in the mean time.

As I say, I bet 99% of Warriors fans don't know that. Wayne Scurrah was an absolute useless bastard, who was only made to look good by the quality of Ivan from 06-11. But he made a mess of that, then proved how clueless he was by replacing Ivan with Bluey, then followed it up with his trump card - not being patient on the best coach in the game at the time, and allowing himself to be wowed by Matt effing Elliott - the man who never won a finals game in 12 seasons and 7 finals matches.
 
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276
That's the story I've heard in more than a few places, yes...

But Elliott wowed them in the mean time.

As I say, I bet 99% of Warriors fans don't know that. Wayne Scurrah was an absolute useless bastard, who was only made to look good by the quality of Ivan from 06-11. But he made a mess of that, then proved how clueless he was by replacing Ivan with Bluey, then followed it up with his trump card - not being patient on the best coach in the game at the time, and allowing himself to be wowed by Matt effing Elliott - the man who never won a finals game in 12 seasons and 7 finals matches.
f**king hell I had no idea... I always felt Scurrah set the club back a decade by letting Ivan (and by extension Nathan) go, but I had no idea he had the opportunity to fix his fk up and somehow messed it up again.

How did that stay so quiet though? I've heard of Bellamy coming close to leaving Melbourne on a few occasions but never a whisper on the Warriors. Did he genuinely commit i.e. ready to sign and start from, what... Elliot's second year, so 2014 yea?

He would've taken over when SJ, Locke, Hurrell, Matulino and Sammy Rapira were all coming into their best years... the things he couldve done with those lads then... fk me dead
 

Penrose Warrior

First Grade
Messages
8,637
f**king hell I had no idea... I always felt Scurrah set the club back a decade by letting Ivan (and by extension Nathan) go, but I had no idea he had the opportunity to fix his fk up and somehow messed it up again.

How did that stay so quiet though? I've heard of Bellamy coming close to leaving Melbourne on a few occasions but never a whisper on the Warriors. Did he genuinely commit i.e. ready to sign and start from, what... Elliot's second year, so 2014 yea?

He would've taken over when SJ, Locke, Hurrell, Matulino and Sammy Rapira were all coming into their best years... the things he couldve done with those lads then... fk me dead
He did. 100% he did set the club back literally a decade. The Nathan thing, well that was a double blow...but that had nothing to do with it at the time. The argument would be that at the time Cleary's contract renegotiations started in mid 2011, we were on the edge of the 8, and the critics were saying we weren't a serious contender. We didn't say 'we don't want you' but we opened the door to Penrith and Gould, who knew the quality of Ivan. We didn't appreciate how hard it was to consistently make finals as a Warriors coach. We also had no succession plan, other than Bluey who ticked their boxes as a New Zealander but had zero NRL exposure or knowledge. Apparently John Hart (head of football at the time) implored Scurrah and Watson that they needed to re-sign Cleary - this was a guy of massive quality that we wouldn't be able to replace. They ignored it. Then blew off the guy a year later who could have replaced him.

And yeah I dunno how it stayed so quiet, on Bellamy. I guess because we don't really have league journos who create and chase stories. Michael Burgess at the Herald does some stuff but I dunno if he breaks stories, or has inside scoops or anything.

It's my understanding (I think Beaver said this) that Bellamy committed for 2014 onwards, but on the proviso he would coach out at the Storm on the last year of his contract. Scurrah said no. They could have had a caretaker coach in place for 2013 (would have been Iro, so we could've written that year off) and Bellamy in for 2014. But nope. Matthew Elliott for two years was deemed the better decision. We weren't the worst team around this time, but nowhere good enough. As you say, we had some real quality but it wasn't delivered on. The 62-6 game happened around this time as well, which is a particular low as a fan.
 

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
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34,669
I remember Scurrah and Elliot going on radio and Scurrah was intolerable/ a bit drunk?
 
Messages
276
He did. 100% he did set the club back literally a decade. The Nathan thing, well that was a double blow...but that had nothing to do with it at the time. The argument would be that at the time Cleary's contract renegotiations started in mid 2011, we were on the edge of the 8, and the critics were saying we weren't a serious contender. We didn't say 'we don't want you' but we opened the door to Penrith and Gould, who knew the quality of Ivan. We didn't appreciate how hard it was to consistently make finals as a Warriors coach. We also had no succession plan, other than Bluey who ticked their boxes as a New Zealander but had zero NRL exposure or knowledge. Apparently John Hart (head of football at the time) implored Scurrah and Watson that they needed to re-sign Cleary - this was a guy of massive quality that we wouldn't be able to replace. They ignored it. Then blew off the guy a year later who could have replaced him.

And yeah I dunno how it stayed so quiet, on Bellamy. I guess because we don't really have league journos who create and chase stories. Michael Burgess at the Herald does some stuff but I dunno if he breaks stories, or has inside scoops or anything.

It's my understanding (I think Beaver said this) that Bellamy committed for 2014 onwards, but on the proviso he would coach out at the Storm on the last year of his contract. Scurrah said no. They could have had a caretaker coach in place for 2013 (would have been Iro, so we could've written that year off) and Bellamy in for 2014. But nope. Matthew Elliott for two years was deemed the better decision. We weren't the worst team around this time, but nowhere good enough. As you say, we had some real quality but it wasn't delivered on. The 62-6 game happened around this time as well, which is a particular low as a fan.
Chrissakes that sucks. Our club's shot itself in the foot a few times over the years... but learning this now for the first time, man it hurts.

So much disappointment that could've been avoided and so much wasted potential out of the NYC era that could've/should've set the club up for years and years of success.

Carlos Tuimavave was another one that had first grade standoff written all over him. I still remember the break he made to set up the winning field goal in the '11 NYC GF. Our nursery back then was fking Penrith-like.
 
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11,161
This is what got me banned from warriors Social Media. Still am and its been 10 years.

Bellemy agreed to come Coach on a 3 year deal. He had everything ticked off. He had his own guy set up to be head of strength and conditioning. He had his own guy set up for head of performance. He had his own guy set up to start the Pathways programs. Everything was ready. The only sticking point was Bellemy wouldnt leave the Storm early. He had 1 year to run on his contract but Scurrah said no he must come for 2013. Scurrah said no he wouldnt leave the Storm 1 year early so he said he would send Kidwell over (Storms assistant coach) to Coach the Warriors in 2013 and Kidwell would have everything set up for 2014 for Bellemy to walk in and hit the ground running.

Scurrah said no and Bellemy then backed out of the commitment.

To this day, to this fkn day I blame Scurrah for us not having at least 2 premierships in our name. And because of that i have a lifetime ban from commentating on Warriors Socials lolololol.
 
Messages
276
This is what got me banned from warriors Social Media. Still am and its been 10 years.

Bellemy agreed to come Coach on a 3 year deal. He had everything ticked off. He had his own guy set up to be head of strength and conditioning. He had his own guy set up for head of performance. He had his own guy set up to start the Pathways programs. Everything was ready. The only sticking point was Bellemy wouldnt leave the Storm early. He had 1 year to run on his contract but Scurrah said no he must come for 2013. Scurrah said no he wouldnt leave the Storm 1 year early so he said he would send Kidwell over (Storms assistant coach) to Coach the Warriors in 2013 and Kidwell would have everything set up for 2014 for Bellemy to walk in and hit the ground running.

Scurrah said no and Bellemy then backed out of the commitment.

To this day, to this fkn day I blame Scurrah for us not having at least 2 premierships in our name. And because of that i have a lifetime ban from commentating on Warriors Socials lolololol.

Bellamy was that far committed that he already had staff picked, and a plan for managing the interim year? f**k this just gets worse and worse doesn't it...

Man I would love for one of the more prominent Aussie league journos to pick this up and do some digging. Its obviously ancient history but IMO its something all Warriors fans deserve to know about, especially the ones who stuck through the last decade of disappointment.
 
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11,161
Bellamy was that far committed that he already had staff picked, and a plan for managing the interim year? f**k this just gets worse and worse doesn't it...

Man I would love for one of the more prominent Aussie league journos to pick this up and do some digging. Its obviously ancient history but IMO its something all Warriors fans deserve to know about, especially the ones who stuck through the last decade of disappointment.
We had him
But still managed to fk it up
 
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2,561
Da fuq. I love Stacey. But, he has no track record as a top level coach to be taking over the Kiwis.

We have a good win last year and then NZRL decides to roll the dice on another Kidwell.

And Kidwell is why I don't want this to happen. I don't want to end up hating Stacey too if the Kiwis fall apart again.

That good win didn't come from Madge. That was due to the quality of our squad, hence Jones is a good choice as you don't need to do too much coaching at this level. Madge also has some bad loses for the Kiwis people have forgotten since the 30-0 drubbing of the Australians.


Yea man, Stacey is a legend but this is just fked.

I thought letting Madge go was a major balls up by NZRL, but when Bennett applied I thought sweet, we've managed to dodge a bullet... only for NZRL to jump straight back into its path. Fk me dead...

I am backing the NZRL. Madge left us lets not forget that. He chose to leave due to the NZRL ultimatum on either remaining with the Kiwis or coaching the NSW. He went with Origin and to me he can stay the hell away from NZ League. Origin has been the cancer to internationals for this long this is a great decision to keep us strong.
 
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276
That good win didn't come from Madge. That was due to the quality of our squad, hence Jones is a good choice as you don't need to do too much coaching at this level. Madge also has some bad loses for the Kiwis people have forgotten since the 30-0 drubbing of the Australians.

I think you're not giving Madge deserved credit. Overall he's got the best winning % of any Kiwi coach in history, and against the Roos he was 2-3 with one of those losses only by 2pts.

Small sample against Aus, but he was already tracking far better than Kearney and Bluey. Never mind Kidwell and Kemble who were just car crashes, and should've served as warnings for going down this path again.

Madge wanted to stay. He was happy to do both and his players backed him to do both. Yes he ultimately chose Origin but I don't begrudge an Australian making that decision.

The important things for me is that Madge bought into our team, the team bought into him, he was getting results, and his players backed him to keep going. Should've been a straightforward decision to keep him.
 

Matua

Bench
Messages
4,562
That good win didn't come from Madge. That was due to the quality of our squad, hence Jones is a good choice as you don't need to do too much coaching at this level. Madge also has some bad loses for the Kiwis people have forgotten since the 30-0 drubbing of the Australians.




I am backing the NZRL. Madge left us lets not forget that. He chose to leave due to the NZRL ultimatum on either remaining with the Kiwis or coaching the NSW. He went with Origin and to me he can stay the hell away from NZ League. Origin has been the cancer to internationals for this long this is a great decision to keep us strong.
We've had quality squads completely flop under other coaches. As @Thatwasnthighref states, you're seriously undervaluing Madge. And also like he says he's an Australian, you can't begrudge him wanting to coach Origin.

Him leaving doesn't matter, this is a discussion about his replacement, and we've replaced him with an untested head coach no matter which way you spin it. (And to repeat, this is not anti Stacey Jones as a person).
 
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2,561
Apparently we told Bennett he needed to submit his resume haha
Good the old dog doesn't get special treatment, even with a good resume.

I know he doesn't like media much and was being his usual grumpy self with them when asked if he had applied for the role.

His reply with "They know where to find me" didn't wash well with me and if that affected me, then one could imagine how that didn't make him look too good"

Would Bennett leave Australia to get closer to the kiwi set up? He has his special needs daughter and commitments in Australia. Would that had been wise in the long term for NZ League? I don't think so. Especially with his affiliation with QLD (I totally see where NZRL are coming from)
 
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Were you in a coma for the Kidwell era and then didn't bother reading up or watching videos about it when you woke up? Kidwell was as diehard Kiwi as you could get and nearly destroyed the team.

Oh and despite the tone of your follow up posts (it's not a shame we all don't feel the same way you do), we all want Stacey to succeed, that's different than thinking it's not a good decision.

Kidwell oozed the passion no doubt. He doesn't get the respect from all the Kiwi players though. Had no idea what he was doing and forcing the boys to sleep on floors at the Marae jamming Maoritanga down their throats. I get where and what he was trying to do but it was poorly executed and ended up on the outties with our failed results. Jones is respected by every Kiwi. Like Meninga and Slater we are about to see the most successful Kiwis coaching reign under Jones.

I think you're not giving Madge deserved credit. Overall he's got the best winning % of any Kiwi coach in history, and against the Roos he was 2-3 with one of those losses only by 2pts.

Small sample against Aus, but he was already tracking far better than Kearney and Bluey. Never mind Kidwell and Kemble who were just car crashes, and should've served as warnings for going down this path again.

Madge wanted to stay. He was happy to do both and his players backed him to do both. Yes he ultimately chose Origin but I don't begrudge an Australian making that decision.

The important things for me is that Madge bought into our team, the team bought into him, he was getting results, and his players backed him to keep going. Should've been a straightforward decision to keep him.

I think Madge leaving a tired Brandon Smith on the field lost us the world cup.
The 30 - 0 result recently has made some people delusional about his coaching ability.
That result is due to our quality squad not coaching.
Madge has reached his ceiling in terms of coaching. Good luck with NSW. Slater has sold his abilities with the QLD camp lets see if Madge can do the same with NSW.
I give him credit for one thing. He showed his true colours when given the choice to choose between Kiwis and Origin. He opted for Origin. I don't begrudge him for choosing them. Just stay away from the Kiwis and our juniors.

We've had quality squads completely flop under other coaches. As @Thatwasnthighref states, you're seriously undervaluing Madge. And also like he says he's an Australian, you can't begrudge him wanting to coach Origin.

Him leaving doesn't matter, this is a discussion about his replacement, and we've replaced him with an untested head coach no matter which way you spin it. (And to repeat, this is anti Stacey Jones as a person).

Madge undervalued the Kiwis by choosing Origin over us. Again I understand this decision on his part.

Kiwi sides that were great quality in the past were always outclassed by the Kangaroos quality in comparison.
This era with NZ/Pacific Island players getting stronger the current Australian squads in comparison are now being outclassed in most positions bar the halves, we have levelled up for sure.

This is why I am confident in the Jones appointment. We have the quality, mana and momentum from last result on our side.
 
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I'm not convinced. Love the man, absolute legend of a player and person, but he had 11 games at the helm of the Warriors at the end of '22 and while it was obviously at the tail end of the covid exile, the team went backwards on the table only beating the Tigers and Dogs over that period.
Nobody was going to rescue us during that time Jones was caretaker. Morale was low with players, Covid screwed everything as we know. I wouldn't think it would be fair to base Jones coaching career in those circumstances. If anything it's pretty unfair tbh.
 
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276
Nobody was going to rescue us during that time Jones was caretaker. Morale was low with players, Covid screwed everything as we know. I wouldn't think it would be fair to base Jones coaching career in those circumstances. If anything it's pretty unfair tbh.
He applied for a head coach job, and that's his head coach record. No getting around that.

And yea it was a tough time to take over, but Toddy Payten took over in similar circumstances two years earlier and he took the team to within 4 points of making the finals.

In fact Payten had it tougher... his whole tenure was across the ditch whereas Stacey got to bring a couple of games home - which were the only ones he won.

Covid was a shitty time for the team as we all know but that's no excuse for Stacey's coaching record. Not when its compared to someone else who had the same challenges, was similarly new to being a head coach, but actually managed to make it work.
 
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2,561
He applied for a head coach job, and that's his head coach record. No getting around that.

And yea it was a tough time to take over, but Toddy Payten took over in similar circumstances two years earlier and he took the team to within 4 points of making the finals.

In fact Payten had it tougher... his whole tenure was across the ditch whereas Stacey got to bring a couple of games home - which were the only ones he won.

Covid was a shitty time for the team as we all know but that's no excuse for Stacey's coaching record. Not when its compared to someone else who had the same challenges, was similarly new to being a head coach, but actually managed to make it work.
Payten left us whilst we down and out. That other merkin Brown was just filling in for a paid job. He had no passion for the Warriors. That left Stace behind the eight ball before getting the chance to learn his trade properly.

First grade coaching requires more of your time / energy to bring out the best week to week grind.
Stace will need more time to get to that level.

International coaching requires you just to know the blueprint and keep your players up (Motivated) in a shorter amount of time. This is why its a perfect fit for Jones.
 
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