Beware of the rah rahs

[JasonE]

There seems to be a real push atm from the Union scum trying to get younger League players by buying out their conyracts.
I see this a real threat as English RL can't afford to lose any young stars because no doubt the clubs would replace them with Kolpacs, so far Chev Walker and Stephen Myler have been confirmed but they have made incredible offers for Leon and Karl Pryce, Matt Cook (Bradford) and Chris Ashton. I hope the RFL and the SL clubs take this seriously.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

I think some SL clubs will take the offers seriously, but not in a good way. Fact is the clubs don't have to agree to let the players go unless the want the cash more.

 

[The Observer]

Unfortunately Jse, the SL clubs continue to ignore the fact that the England RU test calendar is the big lure for these players. Chev Walker is going to compete strongly for the outside centre position in the England team, he can aim to play up to 12 tests a year, 6 or 7 of those in front of 82,000 at Twickenham. In League he'll get 5 or 6 tests at most.

As long as SL clubs continue to marginalise international RL, and until the RFL comes up with a definite strategy to expand the test calendar, they will continue to lose more of their best talent to Union. That's sad.

 

[terracesider]

As long as SL clubs continue to marginalise international RL, and until the RFL comes up with a definite strategy to expand the test calendar, they will continue to lose more of their best talent to Union. That's sad.

It's more than sad. It's a disaster. I'm one of those who a decade ago argued that the move to summer rugby would do long term damage to the game by destroying international football. That seems to have dawned on the RFL but their attempts to develop any representative football have been consistently sabotaged by the ESL chairmen.

 

[The Observer]

It's more than sad. It's a disaster. I'm one of those who a decade ago argued that the move to summer rugby would do long term damage to the game by destroying international football.

The move to summer Rugby has improved the conditions for players and spectators and has been a massive boon for RL, and the overwhelming majority of people in the game recognise that. Furthermore, its given RL the best chance to synchronise the northern and southern seasons.

A debate about summer RL is best left to another thread (not that I think there is a debate to be had).

One factor holding back international RL is the fact that Lewis, the RFL and clubs won't be flexible with scheduling the GF, and thus deprive NZ Kiwis of their players. Another is that the SL clubs have not agreed to a reduction in length of the competition.

I hope everyone in the British game draws the right conclusion from these raids, and that is that we need a larger test program.

their attempts to develop any representative football have been consistently sabotaged by the ESL chairmen.

I'll agree with this.

 

[bartman]

Karl Pryce offers coming to light today...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/super_league/bradford/5334948.stm

http://www.skysports.com/skysports/article/0,,10-1233594,00.html

 

[bartman]

Given that we do play in summer, we need the Superleague and NRL seasons synchronised, for the hsake of the international game. I understand one barrier to changing lengths of seasons and timing of games etc is the requirements of the broadcasting deal(s) in each conutry.

This is where we need some international co-operation to make a plan of what the game needs in a few years time, and using the opportunities when deals are due to be re-negotiated to get everything prepared for this to happen. Ten years and it isn't any closer to happening, which says a lot about the lack of international vision of the elite games administrators worldwide.

If the Superleague clubs are tying the hands of the League in the way forward to do this, then surely it just comes down to waving some money at them, the source of which needfs to come from the renegotiated TV deals. So if clubs don't want to lose two games from the length of the season because of revenue, then pay them money from an increased TV deal and they'll happily give the games up, in return for participation in international calendar, and having something for players to aspire to without crossing codes.

 

[Fairleigh Good!]

The talk of League players going to Union because of the lure of the international scene is ridiculous.

The Rugby Union international scene was also massively stronger than league's in the 80's and 90's. They didn't want to go then.

Rugby Union is now awash with cash and they suddenly fancy the lure of playing at Twickenham in front of 70,000.

Go figure...

 

[bartman]

Actually, yeah. Is there one British player that has changed codes to union for a lower contract since Union became/admitted to being professional?

We still have to do something to generate a rep scene and increase the appeal of broadcast rights, and make those spin more dollars into the game...

 

[The Observer]

The talk of League players going to Union because of the lure of the international scene is ridiculous.

I must have imagined Jason Robinson playing in a RWC final, Six Nations and a British Lions tour then? I must have imagined Andrew Farrell being in the England train on squad despite not playing a game of Rugby? This myopic, head-in-the-sand, attitude will see more players on to Union.

The Rugby Union international scene was also massively stronger than league's in the 80's and 90's. They didn't want to go then.

Of course they didn't want to go then! Players wanted to be paid to play RL, not be amateurs that have to work full time and play at night as well.

Rugby Union is now awash with cash and they suddenly fancy the lure of playing at Twickenham in front of 70,000.

Go figure...

Let's keep it simple then.

English GP RU clubs have the salary cap the same as RL - 1.8 million pounds p.a. Jonny Wilkinson is the only player that gets massive money from sponsorship deals.

Players in RU play about Elite players like Robinson, up and comers have the choice to play 32+ games where they get 4 or 5 tests, or where they get 12.

They will choose the program with more tests. Even as fringe test players, they can go away to North America for the Churchill Cup, and they'll get a chance in the Autumn internationals or the summer tour.

Is there one British player that has changed codes to union for a lower contract since Union became/admitted to being professional?

This is a red herring. Answer this question: Is there one elite British player, in his prime, that has changed RL clubs for a lower contract in the SL era? Did Stu Fielden move to Wigan because he loved its history? Did Leon Pryce move to Saints for the love of the club?

The answer is the same for your question and mine - no. Every player expects to upgrade their contract as they move clubs. Whether they move to another RL club, or to an RU club, they want to make more money, like anybody would.

RFL and the SL clubs must look at the big picture.

 

[S.S.T.I.D]

The Union issue is also a problem back here (Aus). Matt Giteau (thanks to monstrous third party deals) is being paid $1.5Mil per season to play for the Western Force (Super 14). The NRL salary cap is now $4Mil.

Unfortunately (and I think this a the real problem when it comes to retaining players/fending off approaches) is that third party deals are, for the best part, banned by the NRL. Until this situation is fixed, League over here will keeping losing players (it isn't a huge issue at the moment). I'm not sure about the situation re: third aprty deals in the ESL.

To tell you the truth I'm not sure that the lure of international Rugby is the biggest factor. Every single player that has left the NRL for Union has left and massively more money.

But I agree that club chiefs need to wake up to themselves and start to place the good of the game in front of the interests of the club. The seasons need to be shortened and players need to be mandatorily released when selected for a test. The whole League community needs to do more to strengthen the budding League nations as well. Hopefully France in the not too distant future will be in a position to compete with the big three. Its a shame that International RL no longer carries the prestige with the players that it once did.

 

[whatsdoing1982]

Probably the nest player in the Australian Rugby Union team apart from Lote Tiquiri (ex Rugby League player) is Matt Rogers (ex RL player).
Rogers has just signed with thew new Gold Coast Titans a Rugby League club for 2008 and 2009. It is always a matter of time before they realise that league is better. I think the union World Cup is appealing but that is it.
So they taste it and then once they have they want to return. Tiquiri will aswell I think after the World Cup. The NRL is a huge draw card because it is the best Rugby Comp in the world. League or Union. I don think anyone could disagree with that.

 

[terracesider]

Furthermore, its given RL the best chance to synchronise the northern and southern seasons.

A debate about summer RL is best left to another thread (not that I think there is a debate to be had).

There is a wide-ranging debate to be had. The part of it directly relevant to this thread is that the move to summer rugby ended proper - Lions and Kangaroos - international tours and so gave RU a powerful recruiting weapon. For me, the only surprise is that it has taken so long for them to realise how to use it effectively.

 

[The Observer]

There is a wide-ranging debate to be had.

Unfortunately or not, only one side of that debate has any case - the summer Rugby side.

The part of it directly relevant to this thread is that the move to summer rugby ended proper - Lions and Kangaroos - international tours and so gave RU a powerful recruiting weapon. For me, the only surprise is that it has taken so long for them to realise how to use it effectively.

Lions and Kangaroos tours of the past were and are an anachronism. They were good for their time, but that time has gone.

The fact is that even the current Tri Nations series is a development tool, albeit a very useful one. Over the next 10-15 years, the RLIF and elite bodies should seek to build upon the Tri Series by expanding it into a full 'home and away' test program. Australia, NZ and GB/England are the current elite tier nations. France is likely to join the elite tier within the next two years, and its possible that we could elevate Wales and a combined Pacific Islanders team to that status as well.

Forming a coherent home and away test program as I propose would more than meet the challenge of what the Ruggeroids have to offer:

September-October (6 weeks)
Elite European Championship - England, France, Wales play each other at home and away.

Southern Hemisphere Tri Nations - Kangaroos, Kiwis, Pacific Islands team play each other at home and away

October-November (3 weeks)
England, Wales, France fly south and play Aus, NZ, PIs away.

November (3 weeks)
Aus, NZ, PIs fly North
England, Wales, France host them at home.

 

[JonG]

The RFU are getting desperate for talent, especially with the upcoming world cup. There is every possibility that England will not make the semi's which would be a disaster. They have not built on the 2003 win, and the players coming through aren't that good. The likes of JSD, varndell, ellis, tait etc... don't have the skills to match the Aus/All Blacks, and the RFU know this.

Throwing money at the likes of Pryce (x2), Farrell, Walker, Myler, Robinson is a short term solution to winning the WC and hoping that something appears after that for the 2011, or else the same thing will happen.

The England backline could look like this

15 - J. Robinson
14 - K Pryce
13 - C. Walker
12 - A. Farrell
11 - L. Pryce
10
9

Make no mistake about it players like walker will be back after the WC, and will be poorer players for it.

For every Pryce and Walker there is a Yeaman and McGuire, so the RFU can spend all there cash on upcoming RL players, as there will always be someone to fill their boots - and its a great advertisement for our game and our superior athletes

 

[Paley]

Andrew Farrell being in the England train on squad despite not playing a game of Rugby?

Andy Farrell has played rugby all his life.

The big problem is the salary cap - rugby clubs have to stick to it, union clubs don't.

 

[Evil Homer]

Goodbye Chev and Karl,see you in 3 years at Salford or Hull KR.

If players want to sacrifice their talent and some of their best playing years in order to get quick bucks,then they don't deserve to play RL anyway.

 

[terracesider]

Dismissing Lions and Kangaroo tours as an anachronism is just indicative of state of denial about the effect Super League and summer rugby have had on the international game.

I'd agree though that the tri-nations is little more than a development tool. The great tradition of international RL is reduced to a development tool. What a shambles.

France is likely to join the elite tier within the next two years, and its possible that we could elevate Wales and a combined Pacific Islanders team to that status as well.

I see no evidence for that other than a blind optimism. It's all paper dreams. I wish I could agree but French RL is in such a mess that the main objective must be its survival before it stands a chance of international revival. Wales has more of a chance but they're a long way off producing a fully competitive international team.

 

[ali]

Well at least we appear to be giving international RL a greater priority in the northern hemi than down here. i'd hate to imagine how bad we'd be going if Richard Lewis hadn't come along. Seeing Walker and Karl Pryce defect is concerning. If no more go I can live with it. I'ts obvious to most that intrernational rl can create the events and revenue needed to keep these guys in RL. It just needs to be prioritised higher.

And I also agree with whoever said the seasons need to be synchronised. This is a massive issue IMO. We don't just need Tests, but Tests with full strength teams that can be marketed to the sh*thouse!

 

[deluded pom?]

You wouldn't believe the column inches Farrel now gets because he's finally made his Union debut half way through his three year contract . It was the best deal Wigan ever did . If Walker , Pryce and Myler want to take the Union money then that's their prerogative . If you had the chance to greatly enhance your salary by joining another company then you'd do exactly the same as these three . It's happened before , it's happening now and it WILL happen in the future . Get used to it . Their joining Union just means another chance for an upcoming junior to stake a claim for the vacant spot .