Woods99 said:
Do you really want to debate the proposition that people who play and follow rugby union are "poorly informed and ill equipped" to discuss the game? What an extraordinary notion. I thought we were all supposed to be elitist products of the most academically rigorous schools and universities? Perhaps you can expand on this, and it would be helpful if you visited some league message-boards to observe the standards of spelling, grammar, logic, and manners to be found amongst leaguies.
If you're going to to even attempt debating this or any subject with me kindly debate the full subject and don't selectively quote me because it shows you're just not up to the task and are instead intent on inventing an argument to enter.
Yes, many rugby union fans are poorly informed. Just as a fair number of rugby league fans are, but then I'm not interested in debating rugby league with rugby league fans because they aren't the ones who come to forums such as this one intent on expousing the virtues of their favourite code and knocking the resident one.
Just listen to yourself, you've clearly made my point. You've just attacked rugby league fans on the whole as being illiterate, which although patently false is also rude to say the least. It's quite clear that you're prepared to make assumptions based on biased opinion. I on the other hand am talking about the majority of rugby union fans that I have had the displeasure of conversing with. I stated quite clearly that there are a large number of rugby union fans who enjoy their game and are sound minded, logical people who are well worth the respect I afford them. However they are also easily drowned out at times by the mindless drones who choose to engage in debate but are ill equipped to do so, as they only ever offer regurgitated fasehoods and stereotypical nonsense.
The question of which is the more entertaining code is surely a matter of personal opinion. I grew up in a rugby union environment and prefer it as a game. I think you will find that Australia is the only major country in the world where league is still more popular than rugby union.
Of course it is, that you would even need to address this point shows that you're struggling for ammunition in what really isn't a debate, but a class in how to debate and why I find you and a great number of other union fans irritating.
Your lack of knowledge about why union is the more popular code in many countries is frustrating to say the least. This is the crux of my argument about "ill equipped" union fans attempting to enter into debate. Rugby union fans have fans that are versed in their games histroy to a far lower extent than those in rugby league. This is especially true with Australian fans, as a large percentage of union fans in Australia only jumped on the bandwagon following professionalism in 1995.
You don't realise that rugby union had rugby league banned in France during WWII, that it squeezed rugby league out of Yugloslavia in the 50's by strongarm tactics, out of Italy in the 70's by seeing that it was impossible for the sport to be insured etc. A number of the top clubs in Italian rugby union were previously rugby league clubs. In South Africa the game was smothered in a similar manner. I know that I could better spend my time elsewhere but you did call me out, even though you'll more than likely ignore the truth of what I say and just argue another invented subject.
More for you.. do you realise just why rugby union was able to prosper? No of course you don't, you've clearly illustrated that. Like soccer and cricket, rugby union was able to spread around the globe via its integration within universities, railways, the British armed forces, leaders of industry coming from London and the private schools of the south of England, thus controlling the media and the sports coverage and promotion. Despite all of those advantages rugby union still hasn't become a truly global game.
Your union brethren always like to make a point of stating how rugby league is played in "NSW, QLD, South Auckland and Northern England." But the same thing can be quite easily applied to the union code and ignoring the truths as well. I could say using the exact same logic that union is only played in a big way in Southern England, a few eastern Sydney suburbs, Wales, a few minor pacific nations, Japan and France. Because playing numbers in the vast majority of your playing nations even according to the IRB website are negligible. That's not an accurate statement but neither is the union propaganda rubbish that so many union trolls are quick to regurgitate. Another favourite of idiot union fans is the "checkers vs. chess" statement, which again just goes to show the mindset of the people arguing against rugby league as being a negative one intent on drawing moronic comparisons rather than debating the games. Chess may be a more complicated game but the fact of the matter is rugby league fans don't want a complicated game. We want a free flowing game not bogged down in needless penalities that resembles what rugby league once was.
I also find it quite a cheeky comment that you believe that a distinction between minor and major nation can be made in the way that you have, in stating union is more popular in all of them bar Australia. To be fair, not even Australia can be considered a major nation in global terms and with that the only major nations that union really has strength are Japan and the US and even those are minnows, and again Japan is another nation where rugby league was banned and for some time bullied heavily by union.
One simple fact for you; there are more rugby league fans and players in Papua New Guinea where it is their national sport than there is in New Zealand and every other Pacific Island nation combined. The thing I like about that is their population is estimated to double to half of Australia's in no less than 15 years.
Ah, yes, the league play-the-ball. If you are looking for reasons why league is struggling to gain an international profile, look no further than this piece of flim-flam. It used to be a genuine two man scrum, back in the days when league also had genuine 12 man scrums, instead of the 12 man waltz customary today in rugby league. Which is, of course, another aspect of the game which looks laughable to all but you diehards.
That is a patently ignorant comment and I'm almost tempted to just laugh and ignore it. If the play-the-ball is so bad then perhaps you'll explain to me why one of the worlds fastest growing sports is touch football, a game in which an even less complicated variant is employed? If rugby league and touch football are so poor from the use of the ptb why is it that the majority of rugby union teams utilize it in their training practices and defensive drills?
That you write-off rugby league fans as a minority of diehards is just ignorance at its best.
I used to quite like league back in the 60's and 70's. But, in a desperate attempt to make the game more "entertaining", wonderful innovations like the four tackle rule, then the six tackle rule were introduced, not to mention the bastardisation of the play-the-ball into a variant of girls' tunnel-ball, and the emasculation of the scrum.
Of course you did. You're still watching it. Like I said, rugby union is no longer a code, but a throwback to the "bad old days" of rugby league's past before it was streamlined. Games from that era have a novelty value but I certainly don't care enough to join a rugby league re-enactment society like the IRB has.
Still not "entertaining" enough? Okay, let's invent a "40/20" rule.
Now rugby league looks like a training drill with tackling, most of which, of course, is aimed at attacking the head.
Yawn.
I'd actually prefer to watch a union teams training drills to their games. It's quite clear that they play a good game at training and throw it all out the window afterward.
[quote[The only Knights that I know seem to be struggling to find a sponsor, or even to survive without poker machine money.
Meanwhile rugby union goes from strength to strength, both here, and, more importantly, internationally. Mate, you guys are the dreamers. Singapore? Malta? Dream on.[/QUOTE]
As a good mate of the man who founded the Singapore XIII I take exception to your comment, in particular because of the number of native Singaporeans that have been introduced to the game and have now been trained via the NSWRL Academy. Whilst the ages old Singapore RU is almost exclusively an expat affair. Fact. If you can't provide facts and only want to talk sh*te then just don't bother because you as I had stated are clearly one of those ill-equipped individuals I spoke of.
Why is that you didn't talk of some of the rugby league natons that union commentators and fans ripped into at the 2000 World Cup? Is it because those nations are still making storng progress? Lebanon are adding new domestic teams to their competition every year, their hosting of the Mediterranean Cup goes from strength to strength and they have Government support as the no.1 rugby code in that country, despite union having been there for years and having done nothing.
It's funny, you talk about union going from strength to strength yet in Australia that's only partly right. Your game isn't popular enough to afford it FTA coverage that they don't pay for on the ABC, the internationals although well attended are sometimes dull affairs where tv coverage still doesn't see it often top a regular NRL round match in viewers. With such a supposedly huge game tell me why you chose to take a stab at the Newcastle Knights, a club who are the heart and soul of the second largest city in the premier state, which draws crowds that the Newcastle RU team could only have ever dreamt over prior to their being axed. Oh that's right, it's an attack in regard to money.. yes that does sum up your priorities rather clearly. With attitudes like yours it's no wonder that rugby league is making large gains into 'union territory' and has been able to double its playing numbers in England in no less than 3 years, or that Scotland may before too long rival the code in Scotland. Which isn't hard considering that a supposed hotbed of the code only has 6000 players, which incidentally is the same figure that plays in a rugby league nation often dismissed by union fans in the shape of France.
Next time you choose to engage me in conversation be kind enough to have some facts and not talk utter bollocks because I won't waste my time educating you again.
:BDH: :hitit:
