Biting the bullet

[BrotherJim05]

I hate to say this.. I really do. I don't see us making the 8 this year, or next year for that matter.

For a long time WT was plagued by a dysfunctional head office, poor coaching decisions, shit house culture and crippling injuries. We had young talent coming out our arses, but with such a poorly run club it's no surprise they went on for bigger and better things.

I feel we have rectified all these problems in many ways, however we have the reverse problem...a serious lack of talent. This doesn't mean our current players won't develop into talented NRL players, some will, but many will not.

You then have legacy issues with underperforming players eating up huge chunks of our salary cap. This cripples us from going after big name players, but my feeling is we shouldn't be doing this anyway.

Think about it, what incentive does a big name player have coming to our club? Apart from money, not much. My thoughts are that we completely f**k that idea off, bite the bullet, sign up every talented junior we can get our hands on (on overs for a junior but not still small compared to average NRL player), and spend the next few years blooding them into first graders. Many will fall away into nothing, others will shine. By the time this happens, we will have cleared out the dead wood and be able to identify a marquee player who will actually give us a good return on investment. Most of our squad will be solid juniors we have blooded over the past few years, so they will be loyal to Madge and not breaking the bank.

As I said, we have to just bite the bullet and accept we aren't making the 8 for a while.

 

[sensesmaybenumbed]

Look, while I see your point, we literally just did this a few years ago in terms of juniors.

Tedesco is smashing it. At another club
Moses is vastly improved. At another club.
Woods, Nathan Brown, Addo Carr, Papunhyzen, and so on are also doing really well. At other clubs.

As long as player agents get in a young players ear, we will always have the same problem.

 

[Tiger05]

I think the only way ahead is via juniors but you have to somehow retain them and it's not easy. Player agents do make it pretty close to impossible.

I think we need to go the junior route but we also need contingency plans. You need a club where players leave and the next kid on the rung gets a chance. Every so often you will get a player that you can develop around but that will entail character and ability.

You can't trust people like Turdesco and Sharon. I know Moses is hated on here but I think he is a lot better than those two in that we didn't even try and retain the guy. Matterson was just a sook.

 

[Old Time Tiger]

I too see your point Brother Jim, I posted in the Warriors game thread the following.

Hopefully they have learnt Fordy but it wasn't just Ivan, Taylor, Potter & Sheens were no better.

You mention Marika ^, I still remember the NYC winning team coached by Toddy Payten that included,
Nofoaluma,
Koroibete,
Jacob Miller (the next big 7 !!),
Sauaso Sue,
Mosese Fotuaika (very sad),
Joel Luani (another future star that wasn't)
Kyle Lovett (what ever happened to our great centre?),
Nathan Brown,
Sitaleki Akauola

Remember these guys are still only 27/28.

Miller and Luani are 2 examples of who had very high expectations, Luani played Australian Schoolboys Rugby as well. Brown is the pick of the crop from the above.

Maybe what the Tigers need is a Football Manager/Coach/Mentor for the 17 to 20 year old group, I’d go as far as suggesting Todd Payton would be ideal for the job if he doesn’t get a first grade gig. (set him up to take the 1st grade job in 3 years). Let him own th3 junior development side, not coach SG Ball or Harold Matthews but sit above them.I’m sure he also coached a NSW aged team in SOO win over Queensland.

Let the guy, (like Payten) sign his own support team, bring in the likes of Blocker, Farah etc.

Now b4 others say we don’t need guys from the ‘old players club’ there are some that I think are above that shit.

 

[Tigerm]

I agree re: the junior development is important, but we do this every f**king year. If we are going to keep Madge on, then tell him to organise the cap so as to go and get some top line talent to get us over the top 8 hurdle, then we can show young blokes what there future could be.

 

[Vozzy]

I feel like we will definitely miss the 8 this year but I still see us building in the right direction. We have blood some young talent who already look good after only a handful of first grade games. I'm not going to read any article about how they never learn. Like they haven't been able to out their best forward pack on the field once this season while having to debut a number of players those players aren't going to be superstars over night. McGuire is paying the price for Ivan's overpaid players but he isn't using it as an excuse. He always says he sees it at training and they speak about the problems but they take longer than a season to fix. We really are in the same position the dogs are in I say but playing above curren ability but the more the same players play together they can finally get combinations going.

The only thing I think needs to change is maybe Luke Brooks. This year is his last chance. He has been the one who has consistently been there over the last 6-7 years and tigers form kinda parrellels his form over that time. The rest of the players need more time to judge I believe.

 

[Fufu Andronez]

Do the Tigers still have a link with St Gregory's College Campbelltown? Normally every couple of years there would be a gun junior popping up from there, but haven't seen or heard any for a while. Has there been anyone since Teddy/Groat?

I've lived in the Campbelltown area most of my early life and there was a period when everyone growing up had aspirations to be a Wests Tigers player and they had gun Matts & SG Ball teams and there was a clear path into 20's and reggies. There was even a stage when they had 2 or 3 teams entered in those competitions such was the talent level, think it was Wests Magpies and SWSAS Academy team in the matts and ball comp at the same time.

Might be time to re-connect with C-town/Liverpool/Camden areas, a lot of good talent has come from there including Lawrence & Nofoaluma in the current squad

 

[The Rosco]

A lot of good points guys.
Add Hartigan into the conversation as well. He knows the Roosters recruitment methods and can help us tremendously. Surely his fingerprints are all over AK signing with us ?

 

[phenisha]

A lot of good points guys.
Add Hartigan into the conversation as well. He knows the Roosters recruitment methods and can help us tremendously. Surely his fingerprints are all over AK signing with us ?

is AK good though ?

 

[Tigerm]

B

 

[Fordy20]

is AK good though ?

He didn't have a great night out tonight, but no one was worth writing home about apart from Nofo and Looch

 

[Ron's_Mate]

Thoughts on Thomas Mikaele? He was touted as being our powerhouse prop but I don't think I've ever seen him have a good game. He stunk it up tonight against the Knights.

 

[stryker]

Thoughts on Thomas Mikaele? He was touted as being our powerhouse prop but I don't think I've ever seen him have a good game. He stunk it up tonight against the Knights.

Shit on a stick and overrated as f**k.

 

[stryker]

I agree re: the junior development is important, but we do this every f**king year. If we are going to keep Madge on, then tell him to organise the cap so as to go and get some top line talent to get us over the top 8 hurdle, then we can show young blokes what there future could be.

Lol sounds great

 

[Tiger05]

Thoughts on Thomas Mikaele? He was touted as being our powerhouse prop but I don't think I've ever seen him have a good game. He stunk it up tonight against the Knights.

He is a big boy who has leg drive so there is an upside. He has way too many mistakes in him though.

 

[simmo05]

Do the Tigers still have a link with St Gregory's College Campbelltown? Normally every couple of years there would be a gun junior popping up from there, but haven't seen or heard any for a while. Has there been anyone since Teddy/Groat?

I've lived in the Campbelltown area most of my early life and there was a period when everyone growing up had aspirations to be a Wests Tigers player and they had gun Matts & SG Ball teams and there was a clear path into 20's and reggies. There was even a stage when they had 2 or 3 teams entered in those competitions such was the talent level, think it was Wests Magpies and SWSAS Academy team in the matts and ball comp at the same time.

Might be time to re-connect with C-town/Liverpool/Camden areas, a lot of good talent has come from there including Lawrence & Nofoaluma in the current squad

This. The tigers basically ignored the region.

 

[gordsy]

Thoughts on Thomas Mikaele? He was touted as being our powerhouse prop but I don't think I've ever seen him have a good game. He stunk it up tonight against the Knights.

Who do we have to inspire him. If we had a James Graham, type then things would be better.

 

[Wizardman]

I hate to say this.. I really do. I don't see us making the 8 this year, or next year for that matter.

For a long time WT was plagued by a dysfunctional head office, poor coaching decisions, shit house culture and crippling injuries. We had young talent coming out our arses, but with such a poorly run club it's no surprise they went on for bigger and better things.

I feel we have rectified all these problems in many ways, however we have the reverse problem...a serious lack of talent. This doesn't mean our current players won't develop into talented NRL players, some will, but many will not.

You then have legacy issues with underperforming players eating up huge chunks of our salary cap. This cripples us from going after big name players, but my feeling is we shouldn't be doing this anyway.

Think about it, what incentive does a big name player have coming to our club? Apart from money, not much. My thoughts are that we completely f**k that idea off, bite the bullet, sign up every talented junior we can get our hands on (on overs for a junior but not still small compared to average NRL player), and spend the next few years blooding them into first graders. Many will fall away into nothing, others will shine. By the time this happens, we will have cleared out the dead wood and be able to identify a marquee player who will actually give us a good return on investment. Most of our squad will be solid juniors we have blooded over the past few years, so they will be loyal to Madge and not breaking the bank.

As I said, we have to just bite the bullet and accept we aren't making the 8 for a while.

Spot on! In regards to the juniors section, Madge does seem to be going the young player route with recruitment in signing guys like Blore and Stefano which were both very highly rated. I do agree that we need to be more aggressive in this area.

I cannot believe we have some posters here who are already trying to claim Madge's scalp. Madge is by far and away the best asset in our club. We have the WORST roster in the comp and very little of that is Madge's fault. Quite frankly, for us to have aimed up on most weeks is of huge credit to Madge. The last two weeks, we have disturbingly fallen off a cliff though. This roster was never going to aim up for the full 20 rounds. We need to play to at least 90% of our potential every week or we'll lose.....we are not a club that can have a bad day and still win games.

 

[Tiger05]

Spot on! In regards to the juniors section, Madge does seem to be going the young player route with recruitment in signing guys like Blore and Stefano which were both very highly rated. I do agree that we need to be more aggressive in this area.

I cannot believe we have some posters here who are already trying to claim Madge's scalp. Madge is by far and away the best asset in our club. We have the WORST roster in the comp and very little of that is Madge's fault. Quite frankly, for us to have aimed up on most weeks is of huge credit to Madge. The last two weeks, we have disturbingly fallen off a cliff though. This roster was never going to aim up for the full 20 rounds. We need to play to at least 90% of our potential every week or we'll lose.....we are not a club that can have a bad day and still win games.

We should be realistic about our roster. The truth is we have enough talent there to compete if we turn up and play to our ability. That is the issue with the past two weeks performances. That was below their best at a critical time in the season. I don't expect them to win but to drop the ball that much and offer so little in attack has to be on the coach and the players.

In all seriousness how good were our spine yesterday ? Doueihi is a tough player with a fair bit of upside but I think he is overpaid and not performing as a top grade fullback. He has heaps of flaws in his game. Brooks has gone to pieces. He is a shell of the player he could be. Benji can still create some plays and is the best game manager that we have but he showed again that he cannot defend and he is a liability out there. Mbye was actually pretty good in some ways. His service was good and he threatened a bit there. His game in that regards was better than some of Grants worst games. He gave away though a tonne of penalties and he dropped the ball at a critical time. His game was unacceptable as a captain and senior player in the team.

Our forwards got smashed apart from LL and Aloiai. Packer was okay. Blore was good but he didn't get enough game time.

The roster is a problem and the spine is a mess but Madge needs to get them performing to the level they are capable of.

I definitely don't think they should sack Madge. I reckon we need to keep him here for a while longer. The problem is we are going to be poor until we get some better players in key positions. How many quality options are out there on the market ? It just doesn't happen often. I think we need to retain Madge because I think he can build this club up.

 

[magpie_man]

Do the Tigers still have a link with St Gregory's College Campbelltown? Normally every couple of years there would be a gun junior popping up from there, but haven't seen or heard any for a while. Has there been anyone since Teddy/Groat?

I've lived in the Campbelltown area most of my early life and there was a period when everyone growing up had aspirations to be a Wests Tigers player and they had gun Matts & SG Ball teams and there was a clear path into 20's and reggies. There was even a stage when they had 2 or 3 teams entered in those competitions such was the talent level, think it was Wests Magpies and SWSAS Academy team in the matts and ball comp at the same time.

Might be time to re-connect with C-town/Liverpool/Camden areas, a lot of good talent has come from there including Lawrence & Nofoaluma in the current squad

I agree, we probably need to start looking at the Panthers paradigm and moving towards becoming a "development club".
We will never be able to compete with the likes of Easts/Melbourne/Brisbane for the established top-line talent, but there is no reason why we can't have a continuous production line of first-graders pushing through from beneath.
Admittedly, it took a few years of frustration for Penrith but it appears to have all clicked this season with the talent and depth they have throughout the team.