Bret Hart - The Best There Is?

[canberra_raiders2k2]

Bret Hart is better then he believes he is..

His easily the best wrestler.

Bret Hart wasnt the biggest man but he could do just about anything in a match, the closest comparasion i can make is that his basically a upgraded Kurt Angle...and that says alot since angle is like 100x better then everyone in the wwe (minus Shelton).

I'm expecting the Hart DVD within a week..and im honestly all jumpy waiting lol.

 

[Big_Bad_Shark_Fan]

Bret Hart is better then he believes he is..

he believes he is the best there is , the best there was and best there ever will be........................ and you think he doesnt believe hes better than he thinks he is ;-) haha.

Nah hes very real. Makes some interesting points. Good to see the thing with Vince was put aside alot. Im dissapointed that the "Final Four" replay match of the 97 rumble wasnt replayed as to me that was the most entertaining match ive almost ever seen.

 

[canberra_raiders2k2]

lol glad you got that joke ;-)

but truthfully bret imo is the best ever.

 

[Eelementary]

I know he was great....But damn he's an arrogant man!

 

[Jono Russell]

Bret Hart is a big F*cktard, Man i hate his whole view on things, Oh i had a heart attack i cant even come out and say good bye to the fans anymore. What a SOOK.

And for f*ck sake Bret I cant wait till HBK get his chance to bag your ass out, all Bret does is bad mouth HBK. Bret is the Worst there Is,Was and Ever will be.

 

[canberra_raiders2k2]

HBK screwd Hart over..how should he feel towards him?

The WWE killed his brother..even though he released a DVD it doesnt really mean his best buds with them.

Bret has all the reasons in the world to dislike the wwe.

 

[Iafeta]

Bret Hart was one of the greatest all round wrestlers of all time. If not THE greatest. World class technician, charisma, class, he had it all. I'd have only Ric Flair ahead of him.

Bret Hart was screwed by Vince McMahon. Even on Monday Night Wars, Mick Foley alludes to it that he thinks Vince McMahon doesn't really believe what he's saying when he said the infamous "Bret screwed Bret". Given Foley's intense loyalties to McMahon, that shows how the people in WWE not directly associated with the screwjob felt about it. The fact of the matter is, Hart had a clause in his contract (creative control) that should have been honoured. The fact is, Bret Hart turned down an enormous offer from WCW due to his loyalty to the WWE and McMahon, but McMahon asked Hart to reconsider as he didn't feel he could afford to keep him - this after signing a 10 year contract to stay with WWE.

Hart was a great in ring wrestler, put him in with fellow technically minded wrestlers like Jericho, Benoit, Sting, Angle - you could have the guy go 30 minutes and not be bored. He could work a story based match against big men like Yokozuna etc. and make it believable. And, in his career he did not injure anyone else, a pretty good stat for a man around since the early 80's with Stampede.

Somethingwithjohn, I agree with Hart. How many of us really despise Hulk Hogan for his continued presence in professional wrestling? He's held on too long - far too long. Hulk Hogan was a great character, the greatest character of all time. He should be remembered as that, but due to his last 6-7 years he won't be. He won't be able to do matches anymore - thanks to Bill Goldberg - he doesn't need to take away 10 minutes limelight from Benoit etc., this is their time. Its good to see he's one of those rare breeds who admits to that. Also, if you're a real Bret Hart fan you would have got off your a$$ and gone to see him when he was here with WWA as their commissioner - he made an appearance for the fans at Westfields Parramatta and I daresay around the country where WWA went. That was your chance, if you didn't take it, tough titty.

HBK won't bag Bret Hart, why? Because he knows Vince screwed Bret and Bret has every right to say what he wants on the matter. Whats HBK going to say in reply? Nothing, because deep down he probably feels as Mick Foley and most of the WWE locker room do about it.

 

[Eelectrica]

The Bret Hart screw job is a classic case of cause and effect.
Eric Bischoff set the whole sequence of events in motion by having the WWE womans champion bin the title when she crossed over to WCW. Had that not happened it would never have entered Vince's mind that Brett would leave without first handing over the title and no reason for the screw job.

HHH continued the ball rolling by reminding Vince of the womens championship fiasco, HBK chimed in and said he would do anything necassary to prevent that possibility.

Earl Hebner had the final say. Had he not called for the bell to be rung the moment would have gone and the match probably would have continued as per the original script.

Anyway looking forward to picking up the Bret Hart DVD hopefully on Monday.

 

[Raider_69]

Facts are there was no reason for vince to screw hart over, all he wanted was not to drop the title in his home town, he said he'd gladly drop it the next night on Raw but not at a PPV in his home town, given he had the creative control clause he was well within his rights to do so... i can see where vince is coming from but from all reports Hart was a very honest person, so there was no reason to distrust that he wouldnt go on nitro and rubbish the belt

Vince screwed The Hitman, not HBK or Hebner, they were simplying doing what their employer told em to do

 

[Baron Vo Mandor]

I disagree Hart wasnt bigger the company and we all work with people we dont like.

He should have been a big enough man to pay back the company by dropping the belt to whom they wanted even if he despised the person.

Without the WWE's faith in him and the push's he recieved do you think he would have been on the dynamite dollars that WCW offered?

Plus most importantly it was a tradition in wrestling.

 

[Special K]

Facts are there was no reason for vince to screw hart over

No reason? He was the WWF champ and he was signed to WCW. WCW was killing the WWF and the WWF was struggling to keep up and couldn't afford to lose any more ground to WCW.

all he wanted was not to drop the title in his home town, he said he'd gladly drop it the next night on Raw but not at a PPV in his home town, given he had the creative control clause he was well within his rights to do so...

You can't tell your boss you won't drop the belt on a certain day. Bret isn't the first wrestler to be 'striped' of the belt and won't be the last. It's a shame he was stripped the way he was but. There is no such thing as a creative control clause. That's a myth. Wrestlers have say and influence on their programs but they do not book their matches or determine their titles runs. This is what helped make WWF get back on top. Vince made the calls, while in WCW Hulk Hogan was telling Bish what was a good idea and Eric bought it and it turned the company stale.

i can see where vince is coming from but from all reports Hart was a very honest person, so there was no reason to distrust that he wouldnt go on nitro and rubbish the belt

Honest person? Ask his ex wife how honest he was or even ask people like Shawn Michaels. No reason to distrust? Vince is running a million dollar company with his star signed to a company that is killing him. I'd be worried also. You can't trust people in wrestling as things change so fast - look at how many blow ups Hogan and Vince have had.

I like Bret and will get this dvd without question I just think he complains to much and should of done the job when he was under contract. I can see his reasons such as pride but he believed his gimmick to much and that is what caused the break down.

 

[Iafeta]

No reason? He was the WWF champ and he was signed to WCW. WCW was killing the WWF and the WWF was struggling to keep up and couldn't afford to lose any more ground to WCW.

No, fact was Bret Hart had signed a 10 year deal to stay with WWF after declining a multi million dollar contract to go to WCW. His deal was far less per year to stay with WWF, but stayed out of loyalty to Vince McMahon and the WWF. Vince McMahon implored Bret to ask WCW to reopen negotiations as he couldn't afford to keep him. In Bret Hart's contract was a last 30 days right of creative control clause. Bret Hart asked, and had agreed with Vince McMahon that Bret would win in Montreal, and then appear out of contract to the following Raw to drop the belt to Shawn Michaels.

Fact: Bret Hart had signed a 10 year contract to the WWF
Fact: Bret Hart had turned down WCW
Fact: Bret Hart had a last 30 days right of creative control clause in his contract
Fact: Vince McMahon asked Bret Hart to request WCW reopen negotiations as they couldn't aafford to keep him anymore, despite already having a signed contract with WWF.
Fact: Vince McMahon and Bret Hart had agreed that Hart would win in Montreal, and then lose on Raw.

The first part is a major part that is often forgotten. Hart was contracted through to about 2007 still with WWF, but McMahon asked him to go to the competitor regardless.

You can't tell your boss you won't drop the belt on a certain day.

Conversely, you can't agree to do so firstly and then not, and secondly offer and sign to have a legally binding clause that is enforceable and not honour it.

You also can't sign a 10 year contract for the rights to an employee and then ask them to go elsewhere because you're short of a bob.

Bret isn't the first wrestler to be 'striped' of the belt and won't be the last. It's a shame he was stripped the way he was but. There is no such thing as a creative control clause. That's a myth. Wrestlers have say and influence on their programs but they do not book their matches or determine their titles runs. This is what helped make WWF get back on top. Vince made the calls, while in WCW Hulk Hogan was telling Bish what was a good idea and Eric bought it and it turned the company stale.

Incorrect. Wrestlers DO and HAVE had creative control clauses. Hulk Hogan infamously used his several times. Most notably to beat Jeff Jarrett on a WCW Pay-Per-View, where Vince Russo had Jeff Jarrett lay down and then proceeded to do a shoot on Hulk Hogan to effectively kick him out of WCW. Hogan sued WCW. Many wrestlers have refused to do the "job", one as a matter of fact was so renowned to do so when he was on Indy Trips that a fellow wrestler killed him in the locker room. That man, Bruiser Brody killed by Invader I.

Kevin Nash used his creative control, so did Hulk Hogan to the detriment of WCW towards the end of its run. They often ensured the likse of Benoit, Jericho, Guerrero, Mysterio were not put over at their expense by waiving the clause.

Honest person? Ask his ex wife how honest he was or even ask people like Shawn Michaels. No reason to distrust? Vince is running a million dollar company with his star signed to a company that is killing him. I'd be worried also. You can't trust people in wrestling as things change so fast - look at how many blow ups Hogan and Vince have had.

Many people have gone through divorces, does that make them dishonest? My wife is in her second marriage, does that make her dishonest? Many wrestlers have marriage break-ups, its a negative aspect of being on the road 330 days of the year in different towns staying in hotels.

I like Bret and will get this dvd without question I just think he complains to much and should of done the job when he was under contract. I can see his reasons such as pride but he believed his gimmick to much and that is what caused the break down.

Bret Hart has hardly complained enough. Wrestling with Shadows was a video shoot that happened to coincide with the screwjob.

If anything, Vince McMahon has kept the flames simmering by having several parodies of the incident post Montreal on Raw.

 

[Iafeta]

I disagree Hart wasnt bigger the company and we all work with people we dont like.

He should have been a big enough man to pay back the company by dropping the belt to whom they wanted even if he despised the person.

Without the WWE's faith in him and the push's he recieved do you think he would have been on the dynamite dollars that WCW offered?

Plus most importantly it was a tradition in wrestling.

He didn't want the "dynamite dollars" of WCW. He had nearly 10 years remaining on his contract with WWF. He had no intention of leaving WWF and had already declined a substantial offer fromm WCW to stay with WWF.

McMahon should have been big enough to honour the remainder of his contract. Thats the cause of the whole issue.

 

[Baron Vo Mandor]

You raise some valid points I hadnt considered but obviously we are never going to know the whole story.... No matter what is "revealed"

 

[Special K]

No, fact was Bret Hart had signed a 10 year deal to stay with WWF after declining a multi million dollar contract to go to WCW. His deal was far less per year to stay with WWF, but stayed out of loyalty to Vince McMahon and the WWF. Vince McMahon implored Bret to ask WCW to reopen negotiations as he couldn't afford to keep him. In Bret Hart's contract was a last 30 days right of creative control clause. Bret Hart asked, and had agreed with Vince McMahon that Bret would win in Montreal, and then appear out of contract to the following Raw to drop the belt to Shawn Michaels.

I know about the ten year deal but the fact is he had since signed with WCW. Vince asked Bret to look over the deal again as he didn't think he could afford it long term. Bret signed with WCW... Bret and Vince may have agreed on Bret having input but there was in no way a booking clause for Bret. The ending was supposed to be a DQ with HHH running in and then the heart foundation clearing house - which was what Bret wanted and in the end Vince "agreed" on.

Vince wanted the belt dropped on PPV - where people would see it. Nothing he said or tried to do could change Brets mind. Bret had been Mr.Canada and didn't want his last match on WWF PPV(and in his home town) to go out a loser. Sorry but wrestling you put people over when you go out. HBK did it for Austin in 98(granted he came back years later), Foley did it for HHH in 2000(again came back later).

Why take the risk of having Bret not show up? Why risk having Bret show up on Nitro with the belt like Flair showed up on WWF TV in the early 90s with the WCW belt? That would of killed the WWF. You can say "oh no way Bret would.." but with the money beong thrown about and bitterness at the way he was forced out of the company why risk it? Also factor in that Hart didn't want to drop it to HBK and wanted to drop to someone like Taker on RAW suggests he wouldn't drop it clean to HBK on RAW... Why would vince risk it?

Fact: Bret Hart had signed a 10 year contract to the WWF
Fact: Bret Hart had turned down WCW
Fact: Bret Hart had a last 30 days right of creative control clause in his contract
Fact: Vince McMahon asked Bret Hart to request WCW reopen negotiations as they couldn't aafford to keep him anymore, despite already having a signed contract with WWF.
Fact: Vince McMahon and Bret Hart had agreed that Hart would win in Montreal, and then lose on Raw.

Fact one : Yes he did - I never said he didn't....
Fact two : Bret also signed with WCW while he was WWF champ...
Fact three : 'Creative control' if you want it to call it that is input and suggestions at best. It is a myth. If the boss wants it done you can do it or go home(See Stone Cold not jobbing to Brock and going home). You don't have the right to stop business and be bigger then the company.
Fact four: Vince told Bret to see what WCW had to offer because with the way the company was going he didn't think he could pay the back end of the loaded contract. Not that big of a deal considering we are rugby league fans - how often does this happen in the NRL? Clubs back out of contracts weekly.
Fact five : Vince and Bret 'agreed' on a DQ win and the plan was for him to drop it on RAW yes. But again why risk it? HBK refused to job to people, Austin has... It's not that big of a deal but when a contract is coming up and you have the belt you drop it. Taz did this when his contract was up in ECW in 99. But Bret and his pride didn't want to let HBK get the final win over him in his home town.

The first part is a major part that is often forgotten. Hart was contracted through to about 2007 still with WWF, but McMahon asked him to go to the competitor regardless.

How many times are you going to bring up this irrelevant point? Bret had a release so he could sign with WCW. Vince offered a reduced salary and a shorter deal but felt Bret should be treated better and the money was to good to turn down so he never pushed for it. Vince paid for X-Pac to go through rehab twice - as much of a dick as he can be he does generally care about his workers and what is best for the,.

Conversely, you can't agree to do so firstly and then not, and secondly offer and sign to have a legally binding clause that is enforceable and not honour it.

Tell all the other wrestlers that have been released in the last 20 years of wrestling. Tell all the NRL, rugby union, AFL, Soccer, NFL, NBA etc. players that have had contracts ripped up.

You also can't sign a 10 year contract for the rights to an employee and then ask them to go elsewhere because you're short of a bob.

I really don't see why the release is such a big deal in regards to Bret dropping the belt on a world wide ppv when he was coming off contract.

Incorrect. Wrestlers DO and HAVE had creative control clauses. Hulk Hogan infamously used his several times. Most notably to beat Jeff Jarrett on a WCW Pay-Per-View, where Vince Russo had Jeff Jarrett lay down and then proceeded to do a shoot on Hulk Hogan to effectively kick him out of WCW. Hogan sued WCW. Many wrestlers have refused to do the "job", one as a matter of fact was so renowned to do so when he was on Indy Trips that a fellow wrestler killed him in the locker room. That man, Bruiser Brody killed by Invader I.

You do know that the Hogan/Jarrett thing was a work as admitted by Vince Russo, right? He wanted to work the internet and the fans and all the parties where in on it. The problem with this came when Russo never rang Hogan after the PPV and left Hulk sitting around.

No wrestler has it written into their contract that they control their storylines. They have input on their gimmick, their direction, their matches etc but they do not have the final say or "control". Depending on the worker the larger the say they have - its a unspoken rule not a right.

Kevin Nash used his creative control, so did Hulk Hogan to the detriment of WCW towards the end of its run. They often ensured the likse of Benoit, Jericho, Guerrero, Mysterio were not put over at their expense by waiving the clause.

Nash didn't have creative control. He had friends in high places and gained a spot on the booking team. Which is totally different.

Hogan was the same. Eric didn't know much about the workings of pro wrestling and trusted Hogan. Hogan and others took advantage of the situation thats all. No "clauses" just guys worked Eric and pushed for their friends to get a spot.

Many people have gone through divorces, does that make them dishonest? My wife is in her second marriage, does that make her dishonest? Many wrestlers have marriage break-ups, its a negative aspect of being on the road 330 days of the year in different towns staying in hotels.

Having a relationship with Sunny behind his wife back and Chris Candio's back wasn't dishonest? Come on now...

Bret Hart has hardly complained enough. Wrestling with Shadows was a video shoot that happened to coincide with the screwjob.

Have you seen Bret Harts shoot interview? Not the commerical Wrestling with shadows video, but the RF Video shoot interview? Brets not impressed... Bret has launched attack after attack on the WWF since leaving. To say he has hardly complained enough is laughable.

If anything, Vince McMahon has kept the flames simmering by having several parodies of the incident post Montreal on Raw.

Vince has offered to bring Bret back onto TV numerous times(because he knows it will draw $$$) but Bret couldn't put it in the past. Bret has bitched about his photographs being held, tapes being held etc. Thats the real reason besides the money he is doing this DVD - to get his stuff he should have.

Vince has kept the flame simmering as it still draws and still gets people talking. FFS nearly ten years later we are still talking about it!

Greatest work of all time? Well according to some it is.

 

[Iafeta]

You obviously have little to no concept of creative control and its powers, Special K.

Could you honestly see Hulk Hogan jobbing to Rey Mysterio? No. Could you see Kevin Nash jobbing at the time to Chris Benoit and putting him over? No.

There are egotistical personalities within the wrestling business who demand, and are given creative control clauses. Yes, it gives them rights to how their character is portrayed - it also gives them rights as to how their character appears in ring and the result of the match. It happened on numerous occaisions at the back end of WCW, and for anyone to consider it didn't happen is highly naive. There are many instances, outside of WCW where characters believe it, make sure they have creative control clauses - and use it in matches. Such names as Bruiser Brody, and Lou Thesz spring to mind. Lou Thesz would not job unless he felt the wrestler was "good enough", regardless of what his booker wanted. And to compensate for being told to job, he'd "shoot" wrestle his opponents - he had a number of hook manouevers he would use, such as the Lou Thesz Press etc. that were designed purely to go beyond the realms of a worked match and take it to a shoot match, and knowing his own abilities would know that seldom would he come across worse for wear as the booker had designated. Indeed, Lou Thesz was champion for such a long time because bookers wanted to prevent the "double-cross", where the up and comer would try and shoot beat Lou Thesz and claim the gold - Thesz could hold his own.

Bruiser Brody would go into the indy's, where he drew enormous crowds, and simply would not lose. There are times when he was in Japan that he flat out refused to drop belts. It was customary that when you were finished in a particular indy territory you would job on your last match to a regular of the territory, Bruiser Brody would not do that. His reputation was synonomous but because of his draw he was constantly booked. In the end he went to Puerto Rico, and had a severe disagreement with Invader I who ended up knifing him in the locker room.

You raise about Bret Hart leaving WWF, and to tell that to all the other sports stars who have contracts ripped up. Yes, in the case of controversies, or misdemeanours, Bret Hart was a model professional who had sustained one injury in his entire wrestling career at the hands of the late Dino Bravo. And even then, in 14 years, twice he was not available to appear. Pretty good record really.

Lets go back to the facts, thats the basis of this whole debate and fundamentally breaks down your counter argument.

Fact 1: Both agreed that Bret Hart had a 10 year contract WWF were to honour (from further research it was actually a 20 year deal)
Fact 2: Bret Hart signed with WCW ONLY after Vince McMahon practically forced his hand into doing so. He had no intention of leaving WCW. Its irrespective of whether Bret was champion or not, the fact is he had no intention of leaving WWF and could have said, no, stick it, honour my contract. Thats the whole basis of the situation, Vince McMahon honours Bret Hart's contract the situation does not arise.
Fact 3: Creative Control is a fact of wrestling life. You nominate Steve Austin, he recently turned down the WWE who wanted him to job to Coach. He refused, as per the terms of his contract. He was not forced to job, the plan was scrapped.
Fact 4: NRL clubs back out of contracts weekly? Usually in the case of a misdemeanour, severe injuries, or mutual agreement. Not, look Andrew Johns we can't afford to pay you, go elsewhere. In which case the employee is entitled to either sit out the contract fully paid or be fully compensated.
Fact 5: Why risk what? Bret Hart had shown at all times in his WWF tenure that he was a man of his word - if the man said he would appear at Raw, it takes a damn insecure booker and someone who doesn't pay tribute to an honest career history to get paranoid about it and force a finish. Bret Hart had missed through injury TWO events in fourteen years - he was a proven preformer.

Most of the WWF locker room was embarrassed and disgusted with what happened. Undertaker demanded Vince McMahon apologise to Bret Hart. Mick Foley, as per Monday Night Wars could not believe that McMahon thought he was in the right (Foley is a big McMahon loyalist). Vader and Davey Boy Smith had warned Bret about allowing Michaels to put the sharpshooter on because they had an inkling that something was up.

McMahon had a reputation as a manipulative businessman. Indeed, in the aftermath, after the match Vince McMahon said to Bret that it was the first time he'd lied to him in 14 years. Bret Hart rattled off 15 other major lies from Vince McMahon to Bret Hart, straight off the tip of his tongue without too much thought.

As for the Sunny incident, this from wrestleview.com

Not even a couple of months later, Shawn Michaels was back. That's when it was the real proof that he was a coward, and he's little knee injury wasn't that serious at all. In the summer of 1997, Bret Hart and HBK had a real life confrontation backstage. Bret Hart confronted Shawn Michaels backstage and they got into a fight. Nothing serious happened in the fight, Bret had a piece of Shawn's hair and reportedly took him down and applied this submission hold from what I am hearing. WWF officials broke them up and both men were sent home that night because of their actions.

Shawn said that Bret was having an affair with WWF divas, Sunny. What happened was, Sunny somehow pitched in an idea of her managing Bret Hart at one point, and I am assuming Shawn Michaels took this a little too far and "affair" was the first thing that came to his mind. What angered Bret more was the fact that Shawn mention it in his interview by saying something like "Bret Hart has some Sunny days ahead of him" or something like that.
At that time, Bret Hart had been playing heel character, where he had the role of bashing the American fans. In mid 1997, the WWF was losing TV ratings to Ted Turner's WCW. Mostly because of the nWo angle. The WWF came up with the D-Generation X stable to try to regain the ratings, but that didn't work until the following year. There was a small feud between DX/Hart Foundation/Nation of Domination. One night on RAW, in the Nation's locker room, there were a lot of racist comments written on the wall, of course it was all scripted. Bret Hart did not like the idea of having to be racist and hate black people, he expressed himself and felt it was crossing the line even if it's sports entertainment, and he was right, so the angle faded away. Bret Hart did not like the direction of the WWF and said "it's not fit for kids".


This from another site

1.10) What was the "Sunny days" comment?

Tammy "Sunny" Sytch has commented on a few occasions that she
would have liked to manage Bret Hart. This was somehow
construed by Bret's wife as meaning that Bret and Tammy were
somehow romantically linked. This of course caused much tension
in the Hart household, which went away with time.

Until Shawn Michaels, in his eternal quest to annoy Bret
Hart, made an off-hand comment in an interview about Bret's
"Sunny days," which then re-fueled the Hart family tension and
became yet another reason for the two to hate each other.


I searched the internet on yahoo for 30 minutes and couldn't find any confirmation that an affair happened. Source?

 

[Special K]

You obviously have little to no concept of creative control and its powers, Special K.

Could you honestly see Hulk Hogan jobbing to Rey Mysterio? No. Could you see Kevin Nash jobbing at the time to Chris Benoit and putting him over? No.

No they would take their ball and go home just like Austin did in 2002.

There are egotistical personalities within the wrestling business who demand, and are given creative control clauses. Yes, it gives them rights to how their character is portrayed - it also gives them rights as to how their character appears in ring and the result of the match. It happened on numerous occaisions at the back end of WCW, and for anyone to consider it didn't happen is highly naive. There are many instances, outside of WCW where characters believe it, make sure they have creative control clauses - and use it in matches. Such names as Bruiser Brody, and Lou Thesz spring to mind. Lou Thesz would not job unless he felt the wrestler was "good enough", regardless of what his booker wanted. And to compensate for being told to job, he'd "shoot" wrestle his opponents - he had a number of hook manouevers he would use, such as the Lou Thesz Press etc. that were designed purely to go beyond the realms of a worked match and take it to a shoot match, and knowing his own abilities would know that seldom would he come across worse for wear as the booker had designated. Indeed, Lou Thesz was champion for such a long time because bookers wanted to prevent the "double-cross", where the up and comer would try and shoot beat Lou Thesz and claim the gold - Thesz could hold his own.

Bruiser Brody would go into the indy's, where he drew enormous crowds, and simply would not lose. There are times when he was in Japan that he flat out refused to drop belts. It was customary that when you were finished in a particular indy territory you would job on your last match to a regular of the territory, Bruiser Brody would not do that. His reputation was synonomous but because of his draw he was constantly booked. In the end he went to Puerto Rico, and had a severe disagreement with Invader I who ended up knifing him in the locker room.

that is all well and good. I never knew wrestlers refused to job before - thanks for the insight.

You raise about Bret Hart leaving WWF, and to tell that to all the other sports stars who have contracts ripped up. Yes, in the case of controversies, or misdemeanours, Bret Hart was a model professional who had sustained one injury in his entire wrestling career at the hands of the late Dino Bravo. And even then, in 14 years, twice he was not available to appear. Pretty good record really.

What has that got to do with anything? He and Vince worked out a release as the contract was loaded to heavy and Bret could get the money he wanted and more in WCW. Win win for both parties.

Lets go back to the facts, thats the basis of this whole debate and fundamentally breaks down your counter argument.

lets...

Fact 1: Both agreed that Bret Hart had a 10 year contract WWF were to honour (from further research it was actually a 20 year deal)

Yeah the extra ten years was a off camera thing - like a footballer signing a deal then moving into coaching at the club..

Fact 2: Bret Hart signed with WCW ONLY after Vince McMahon practically forced his hand into doing so. He had no intention of leaving WCW. Its irrespective of whether Bret was champion or not, the fact is he had no intention of leaving WWF and could have said, no, stick it, honour my contract. Thats the whole basis of the situation, Vince McMahon honours Bret Hart's contract the situation does not arise.

Bret wanted to go and cash in but he stayed loyal to Vince as he saw him as a father type figure and couldn't leave him when he was at such a low point. Vince said it was alright and better off for both parties if he did leave. Bret signed with WCW for a huge figure... Bret was unhappy within the WWF with being a heel, working with HBK etc. - this was a new place for him to rule. Shame WCW f**ked it up...

Fact 3: Creative Control is a fact of wrestling life. You nominate Steve Austin, he recently turned down the WWE who wanted him to job to Coach. He refused, as per the terms of his contract. He was not forced to job, the plan was scrapped.

He took his ball and went home and has not been seen on TV since. Austin did the same thing with Brock a few years ago and everyone bitched till they turned blue. HBK refused to drop the belt to Vader in 96 at Summerslam and had the result changed on the day as he said he wouldn't go out and perform or he'd shoot and win(don't like his chances...). Hissy fits and companies bending over backwards to make sure stars are happy are not clauses. The bigger star you are the more say you have and the more you can throw your weight around. It has nothing to do with a contract.

Fact 4: NRL clubs back out of contracts weekly? Usually in the case of a misdemeanour, severe injuries, or mutual agreement. Not, look Andrew Johns we can't afford to pay you, go elsewhere. In which case the employee is entitled to either sit out the contract fully paid or be fully compensated.

Bret and Vince was a mutual agreement...

Bret would of liked to have stayed it seemed but in the end he agreed it would be best if he left and he did. Its the same as Lance Thompson, Sam Isemonger etc. They wanted to stay at their clubs but their clubs wanted to move in different directions and ended their agreements.

Fact 5: Why risk what? Bret Hart had shown at all times in his WWF tenure that he was a man of his word - if the man said he would appear at Raw, it takes a damn insecure booker and someone who doesn't pay tribute to an honest career history to get paranoid about it and force a finish. Bret Hart had missed through injury TWO events in fourteen years - he was a proven preformer.

Think if Bret had shown up on Nitro with the belt? You and I were not there so we can't say theres no chances he wouldn't have because we will never know. Eric was throwing money at WWF guys to diss the company and just think of the bonus bret would have got if he showed up with the WWF title.
You can't say he wouldn't have done it because we will never know. Vince didn't want to risk it. I wouldn't either. Vince by all rights could have stripped the belt from Hart before the PPV and had something like Taker Vs HBK for the belt if he wanted. Hart was working for Vince and has to play by those rules. If Bret took his ball and went home he wouldn't have got the send off he wanted - so no showing the ppv wasn't a go for Bret like it was for Austin in 2002 for example.

Most of the WWF locker room was embarrassed and disgusted with what happened. Undertaker demanded Vince McMahon apologise to Bret Hart. Mick Foley, as per Monday Night Wars could not believe that McMahon thought he was in the right (Foley is a big McMahon loyalist). Vader and Davey Boy Smith had warned Bret about allowing Michaels to put the sharpshooter on because they had an inkling that something was up.

Some of them thought it was a work.. Goldust, Shamrock are two guys who off the top of my head have said they thought it was a work in shoot interviews.

Something was up? No sh*t. Vince wanted HBK as champ and Bret didn't want to drop the belt. Time was running out to get it from Hart to HBK so Vince did what he had to.

McMahon had a reputation as a manipulative businessman. Indeed, in the aftermath, after the match Vince McMahon said to Bret that it was the first time he'd lied to him in 14 years. Bret Hart rattled off 15 other major lies from Vince McMahon to Bret Hart, straight off the tip of his tongue without too much thought.

So...? I don't see what this has to do with Bret not wanting to job to HBK. Vince may have lied 15 times and he lied to Bret about the finish.... But he is not the only one at fault here.

As for the Sunny incident, this from wrestleview.com

Not even a couple of months later, Shawn Michaels was back. That's when it was the real proof that he was a coward, and he's little knee injury wasn't that serious at all. In the summer of 1997, Bret Hart and HBK had a real life confrontation backstage. Bret Hart confronted Shawn Michaels backstage and they got into a fight. Nothing serious happened in the fight, Bret had a piece of Shawn's hair and reportedly took him down and applied this submission hold from what I am hearing. WWF officials broke them up and both men were sent home that night because of their actions.

Shawn said that Bret was having an affair with WWF divas, Sunny. What happened was, Sunny somehow pitched in an idea of her managing Bret Hart at one point, and I am assuming Shawn Michaels took this a little too far and "affair" was the first thing that came to his mind. What angered Bret more was the fact that Shawn mention it in his interview by saying something like "Bret Hart has some Sunny days ahead of him" or something like that.
At that time, Bret Hart had been playing heel character, where he had the role of bashing the American fans. In mid 1997, the WWF was losing TV ratings to Ted Turner's WCW. Mostly because of the nWo angle. The WWF came up with the D-Generation X stable to try to regain the ratings, but that didn't work until the following year. There was a small feud between DX/Hart Foundation/Nation of Domination. One night on RAW, in the Nation's locker room, there were a lot of racist comments written on the wall, of course it was all scripted. Bret Hart did not like the idea of having to be racist and hate black people, he expressed himself and felt it was crossing the line even if it's sports entertainment, and he was right, so the angle faded away. Bret Hart did not like the direction of the WWF and said "it's not fit for kids".

I searched the internet on yahoo for 30 minutes and couldn't find any confirmation that an affair happened. Source?

Sunnys reaction to the question on her shoot interview lol. It has been mentioned numerous times over the years on the internet and jabes from Joey Styles when Sunny was in ECW.

You are missing the point but. Bret had a contract with WCW and he held the WWF title. He had to drop the belt at some stage but wouldn't do it on PPV to HBK due to his pride. This wouldn't of been a big issue if he had longer to run on his deal and not signed with WCW. Vince did not want to take the risk of having his world champion on Nitro. People never thought Hogan would work for anyone but Vince... People never thought Eric would work for the WWE.. People never thought the WWE would bring back Russo.. It is pro wrestling you don't take peoples word. Look at Ric Rude being on both Nitro and RAW on the same night when the WWF thought they had a 'agreement' with him. Look at Mike Awesome showing up on Nitro when he was ECW world champ... You don't risk these things

 

[Manurewa_Marlins]

Lets face it. Bret was the best ever, and we would all kill to see him back, over a Hogan, over a Flair, over a Stone Cold, over a Rock, over a Shawn Michaels, over a BRock Lesner, over a Scott hall.

Bret was screwed, he deserved better.

 

[Eelementary]

I never saw him wrestle.

But I DID see The Rock and Austin wrestle.

Obviously, they weren't as talented as he was in-ring.

But Austin's gimmick was a lot of fun, and The Rock was an absolute riot.

Brett Hart over those guys? Maybe...But maybe not.

Stone Cold and The Rock are legends in their own rights too.

 

[Smartman]

I never saw him wrestle.

But I DID see The Rock and Austin wrestle.

Obviously, they weren't as talented as he was in-ring.

But Austin's gimmick was a lot of fun, and The Rock was an absolute riot.

Brett Hart over those guys? Maybe...But maybe not.

Stone Cold and The Rock are legends in their own rights too.

You can say Bret Hart had a big hand in Austins career.

Steve Austin had a great gimmick in that he was bad ass motherf**ker ( excuse the language)

The 2 matches they had ss96 and WM13 were legendary, espescially the WM13 match when Bret entered the ring as the good guy and Austin went in as the bad guy and their roles were reversed at the end of the match with Bret getting the boos.

Probably the best double turn in history.