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BRISBANE BRONCOS ALL-TIME 17

Broncodroid

Juniors
Messages
2,313
Bronco Fans

Season 2005 is upon us, and with little to browse over Bronco wise, I thought it might be an idea to nominate your 'Greatest Ever Brisbane Team' nominating a squad of 17 players.

My team looks like:

1 - Darren LOCKYER

2 - Lote TUQIRI
3 - Steve RENOUF
4 - Darren SMITH
5 - Wendell SAILOR

6 - Kevin WALTERS
7 - Allan LANGER (c)

8 - Glen LAZARUS
9 - Kerrod WALTERS
10 - Shane WEBCKE
11 - Gordan TALLIS
12 - Brad THORN
13 - Peter RYAN

14 - Shaun BERRIGAN
15 - Alan CANN
16 - Petero CIVONECEVA
17 - Tony CARROLL

I am sure I have missed someone, though this is an impressive line-upi I think we would all agree.

Cheers
 

Ghoulies

Bench
Messages
3,948
What about Lazarus? He wasnt with us for that long but I'd still rate him above Shane Webkes clone...
 

Broncodroid

Juniors
Messages
2,313
Um...check post again, I have Shane Webcke TWICE in which one of those Webcke's should be the GREAT LAZO. Appologies :lol:
 

The Colonel

Immortal
Messages
41,992
Peter Ryan, Tonie Carroll, Alan Cann and Brad Thorn ahead of Gene Miles, Trevor Gillmeister, Sam Backo and Terry Matterson?

I'm not sure whether :roll: , :shock:, [-X , #-o or :lol: is more appropriate. :mrgreen:
 

Ghoulies

Bench
Messages
3,948
What about Mic Hancock? Didnt he come close to playing 300 games for the Broncs? I know he definitely wasnt as talented as Lote, but he was a good clubman.
 

Broncodroid

Juniors
Messages
2,313
You can build a case for Gillmeister starting ahead of Thorn, though Backo is not near Webcke and Lazo. Personally, I can't pick Matterson ahead of Ryan. Matterson was this best available for a dominant Brisbane team.

Mick Hancock was a great club man, he played for QLD and Australia though Tuqiri was a special player that cannot be left out despite not having the years that Hancock served.

Gene Miles...my error there. Not thinking was I ;)

Revised team:

1 - Darren LOCKYER

2 - Lote TUQIRI
3 - Steve RENOUF
4 - Gene Miles
5 - Wendell SAILOR

6 - Kevin WALTERS
7 - Allan LANGER (c)

8 - Glen LAZARUS
9 - Kerrod WALTERS
10 - Shane WEBCKE
11 - Gordan TALLIS
12 - Trevor Gillmeister
13 - Peter RYAN

14 - Shaun BERRIGAN
15 - Brad Thorn
16 - Petero CIVONECEVA
17 - Darren Smith
 

The Colonel

Immortal
Messages
41,992
What exactly has Peter Ryan done outside of leave for the Brumbies to never be heard of again? He and Matterson played as long as each othjer at the club but Matterson IMO was very under rated.

Backo would easily fit in ahead of Thorn and Cann and quite possibly Petero.

Best Brisbane side IMO

1 - Darren LOCKYER

2 - Lote TUQIRI
3 - Steve RENOUF
4 - Chris JOHNS
5 - Wendell SAILOR

6 - Kevin WALTERS
7 - Allan LANGER (c)

8 - Glen LAZARUS
9 - Kerrod WALTERS
10 - Shane WEBCKE
11 - Gordan TALLIS
12 - Gene MILES
13 - Trevor GILLMEISTER

14 - Terry MATTERSON
15 - Sam BACKO
16 - Petero CIVONECEVA
17 - Darren SMITH

Though strong cases could be made for Willie Carne, Hancock, Peter Jackson and Hitch....
 

Broncodroid

Juniors
Messages
2,313
Peter Ryan (1989 - 1999)

168 Games (all Brisbane games not just premiership)

- Best Bronco Forward in 1996
- Players Player in 1997
- QLD State Of Origin Representative in 1998 (2games - 1 start - 1 res)

Terry Matterson (1988 - 1995)

178 Game (all Brisbane games not just premiership)

- Best Bronco Forward in 1988
- NSW State Of Origin Representative in 1988 (1games - 1 res)

Very similar records though Matterson was added value as a goalkicker and was a one time holder of various point scoring records with Brisbane.

My team sees no established kicker, though Lockyer and Tuqiri (still holder of most points in a game for QLD when he was goalkicker) would handle those duties in my team.

Selecting Matterson on the bench? What value does he add? Yes, he was a solid, no frills player, though from the bench IMO Berrigan, Thorn, Petero and Smith add impact with the ability to cover a variety of positions. Matterson was a lock, occasional dummyhalf...each to their own ;)
 

bender

Juniors
Messages
2,231
1. Lockyer - Ahead of Julian O'Neil, who was underated due to his off field image, Scott Hauf who wasnt in the same class, Dale Shearer who was just as good, maybe even better but loses due to longevity.

2. Sailor - Although he lost form towards the end, he went head to head with Sailor, Carne, Hancock and Tuquiri and was generally always the form winger.

3. Miles - He was the best centre in the world and although he played a lot of 2nd row, this was only because of the broncos forward problem and he wouldnt need to move there in this side. Sailor running off the basketball passes would be lethal.

4. Renouf - Although his defence was a little suspect at times, he could really score tries. He was in better form for longer times than Jackson, Johns, Currie and some others, all of whom would not let the side down.

5. Hancock - In better form for a longer period than his main opposition - Carne, Tuquiri who were considered the best in the world at times or the converted centres or fullbacks like shearer, currie, Johns who would not have let down the team.

6. Wally Lewis - He might not have played as long as Walters but he was a class or two above him. Brisbane struggled without him and he carried the side to some great performances. Leaving him out would be like leaving Bradman out of a cricket side or John Raper out of a St George side.

7. Allan Langer - Only kevin Walters has realistic claim.

13. Matterson - Never once let Brisbane down. This is actually the hardest spot to pick with Carlaw, Cann, McKenna, Ryan, Julian O Neil the main options but none really being all that good when compared to the rest of the Broncos side. It was awfully tempting to slot Gene Miles in there, but at the end of the day Matterson's solid Terry Lamb style game got him the nod. He would do the job, and with Lewis, Langer and Lockyer doing the playmaking and Tallis, Gillmeister and Webcke providing starch in defence, that dependable style player is exactly what is needed.

12. Tallis - He really did scribe his name into one spot. He was the worlds best 2nd row for most of his time with the broncos.

11. Gilmeister - He wasnt at the Broncos for long but he helped them shed their soft underbelly. He deserves the spot ahead of Brad Thorn, Civonoceva who were probably just as good, but didnt play with the same consistency and passion.

10. Lazarus - His form while with Brisbane was first class and along with Webcke was the standout performers. Backo, Hohn and thorne and civonoceva were great players but didnt have the longevity of these two.

9. Walters - This is a bit of a problem area for brisbane, but it wasnt while walters was playing. Conescu also could have snuck in, but he loses out due to him losing out to Walters when both played at the broncos. He was a better player at his best but that was before the Broncos and Walters style would suit the Broncos better.

8. Webcke - Has been considered the Worlds best for some time now.
 

gcbronco

Juniors
Messages
216
6. Wally Lewis - He might not have played as long as Walters but he was a class or two above him. Brisbane struggled without him and he carried the side to some great performances. Leaving him out would be like leaving Bradman out of a cricket side or John Raper out of a St George side.

Have to disagree with you there, I'm a huge Wally Lewis fan and regard him as one of the best the game has ever had but Kevin Walters IMHO performed at a higher standard on a more consistant basis for the Broncos then Lewis. Thats not to say his a better player overall (if the criteria was the better player overall I would agree but its the Broncos best 17) but its form at the Broncos where counts here, Lewis was very dominate in 1988, but dropped off in 1989 - 1990 (injuries and absence through rep duties certainly didnt help) and in 1990 was eventually moved to lock to make room for Kevin Walters.

Otherwise I pretty much agree with your side there, Terry Matterson I regard as the most underrated player for the Broncos past and present, he deserved more then just 1 SOO match he got thats for sure.

Just on Tuqiri he had potential to be one of the great wingers for the Broncos but I find it hard to justify dropping Michael Hancock who was not only a great clubman but performed at that level or higher on a longer and more consistant basis.
 

Broncodroid

Juniors
Messages
2,313
Nice team bender...

A question for qcbronco though on the following:

qcbronco said:
Otherwise I pretty much agree with your side there, Terry Matterson I regard as the most underrated player for the Broncos past and present, he deserved more then just 1 SOO match he got thats for sure.

Ok, I agree, Matterson was very much underrated and there is a solid argument for inclusion into the Best Ever Bronco's team though it becomes pretty much personal preference. Though I cannot justify him playing in more than one SOO series for NSW? Who would you pick him ahead of?

Matterson's Winfield Cup debut was in 1998, he played up until the 95 season. In that time, NSW won 4 from 8 Origin series in which the Gould era was starting to unfold from 92 onwards where he would go onto be the greatest ever Origin coach.

In the Matterson's time, you had NSW forwards like Harragon, Sironen, Clyde, Mackay, Geyer, Miller, Roberts and Gillespie to name a few who were able to pack down in the backrow where Matterson would reside.

As underrated as Matterson was, let's not overrate him in the same process.
 

Mr Saab

Referee
Messages
27,762
Lockyer
Hancock
Renouf
Smith
Sailor
Walters
Langer
Carroll
Thorn
Tallis
Webcke
Ker Walters
Lazarus

Matterson
Johns
Gillmeister
Miles

its a case of who not to leave out! so many great broncos who have given great service to the Broncos
 

Broncodroid

Juniors
Messages
2,313
Charlie Saab said:
its a case of who not to leave out! so many great broncos who have given great service to the Broncos

Agreed. I am not too sure you can come up with a bad 'ALL TIME BRONCO 17" given the players we have had.
 

gcbronco

Juniors
Messages
216
Broncodroid said:
Nice team bender...

A question for qcbronco though on the following:

qcbronco said:
Otherwise I pretty much agree with your side there, Terry Matterson I regard as the most underrated player for the Broncos past and present, he deserved more then just 1 SOO match he got thats for sure.

Ok, I agree, Matterson was very much underrated and there is a solid argument for inclusion into the Best Ever Bronco's team though it becomes pretty much personal preference. Though I cannot justify him playing in more than one SOO series for NSW? Who would you pick him ahead of?

Matterson's Winfield Cup debut was in 1998, he played up until the 95 season. In that time, NSW won 4 from 8 Origin series in which the Gould era was starting to unfold from 92 onwards where he would go onto be the greatest ever Origin coach.

In the Matterson's time, you had NSW forwards like Harragon, Sironen, Clyde, Mackay, Geyer, Miller, Roberts and Gillespie to name a few who were able to pack down in the backrow where Matterson would reside.

As underrated as Matterson was, let's not overrate him in the same process.

I think you misunderstood me, I know they had those players available and am not saying he should be there ahead of them either, in fact its really just the timeframe he entered when NSW really dominated in the forwards. Having said that I have little doubt he could handle SOO and I feel his unlucky because of that dominance NSW had at that point and time and for that reason I think he deserved to play more rep football then he did, not because I rate him at same level or higher then the likes of Harragon, Sironen, Clyde, Mackay, Geyer etc, in fact I never even compared him to those players.
 

bender

Juniors
Messages
2,231
gcbronco said:
6. Wally Lewis - He might not have played as long as Walters but he was a class or two above him. Brisbane struggled without him and he carried the side to some great performances. Leaving him out would be like leaving Bradman out of a cricket side or John Raper out of a St George side.

Have to disagree with you there, I'm a huge Wally Lewis fan and regard him as one of the best the game has ever had but Kevin Walters IMHO performed at a higher standard on a more consistant basis for the Broncos then Lewis. Thats not to say his a better player overall (if the criteria was the better player overall I would agree but its the Broncos best 17) but its form at the Broncos where counts here, Lewis was very dominate in 1988, but dropped off in 1989 - 1990 (injuries and absence through rep duties certainly didnt help) and in 1990 was eventually moved to lock to make room for Kevin Walters.

It is true that injuries in 1989 and 1990 did limit Wally's input to the broncos. But just because a player has had an injury riddled season doesnt mean he hasnt been in stellar form when he was on the paddock. Andrew Johns just had an injury riddled season but who would you put in a Newcastle side, a young and fit Michael Hagan or last years Andrew Johns? When Wally played he was simply better than Walters at any stage of his career, with no disrespect meant to kevie who was still a great player. Kevie was never considered the best five eight in the world when he was at the Broncos (that honour fell to Daley or Fittler). Wally was the undisputed best no 6 in the world (if not of all time) during the early years of his Broncos career and even during his last year most people still considered him the best no 6 in the game. Kevie did not take his spot. Bennett experimented with playing Lewis at lock to give starch to the forward pack which was the Brisbane weakness in early games. It backfired and didnt work. In the last semifinals Lewis played, he sat on the bench due to his hamstring strain. Brisbane whimpered out of the finals and clearly missed Lewis' leadership and direction. It is a shame he was injured but it still doesnt stop him from being a great player even at this stage of his career.

I understand what you are saying regarding the great longer service kevie gave but it would be like putting the long serving Andrew Gee in ahead of Lazarus. Quite honestly, at his best at the Broncos he just wasnt as good as Lazarus was at his best for the Broncos.
 

gcbronco

Juniors
Messages
216
It is true that injuries in 1989 and 1990 did limit Wally's input to the broncos. But just because a player has had an injury riddled season doesnt mean he hasnt been in stellar form when he was on the paddock.

He was strong in 1988 but I find it very hard to believe his form during 1989-1990 was as good and consistant as 1988 and earlier because it wasn't (and thats even accepting injuries played a part)and it's certainly not at the levels it was in 1984 (arguably his finest season) when he dominated at every level the game had to offer.

Andrew Johns just had an injury riddled season but who would you put in a Newcastle side, a young and fit Michael Hagan or last years Andrew Johns? When Wally played he was simply better than Walters at any stage of his career, with no disrespect meant to kevie who was still a great player

Andrew Johns started his career at the Knights and thats where he built and thats where he was at his best on the MOST consistant basis, not just a couple of seasons. He was consistantly better then Hagan over a longer period and thats what counts and thats why he would be picked ahead of Hagan, form on a consistant basis and thats where I think Kevin Walters has the edge, he delievered for the Broncos on a longer and more consistant basis then Lewis did, doesnt mean his a better player it means he performed BEST for the Broncos on a longer and more consistant basis.

Kevie was never considered the best five eight in the world when he was at the Broncos (that honour fell to Daley or Fittler). Wally was the undisputed best no 6 in the world (if not of all time) during the early years of his Broncos career and even during his last year most people still considered him the best no 6 in the game. Kevie did not take his spot. Bennett experimented with playing Lewis at lock to give starch to the forward pack which was the Brisbane weakness in early games. It backfired and didnt work.

Kevin Walters may have not been rated the best 5/8th in the world but that doesn't mean he didn't deliver more for the Broncos then Lewis did on a longer and more consistant basis.

In the last semifinals Lewis played, he sat on the bench due to his hamstring strain. Brisbane whimpered out of the finals and clearly missed Lewis' leadership and direction. It is a shame he was injured but it still doesnt stop him from being a great player even at this stage of his career.

Walters form in early 1990 was brilliant and it had to be given the campaign that was running against Bennett because of his sacking of Wally Lewis as Bronco's captain and as a result what was being directed at him (he was seen as Bennett's pet).

And the experiment did work because it was the combination (Walters @ 5/8th Langer @ halfback) the Broncos would use into the future and would go onto deliver 4 premierships of the 5 premierships (1992, 1993, 1997, 1998), Langer was the magician with the football who could turn the match in a blink of the eye with 2 quick tries or some other brilliance but who was organising the side, Kevin Walters, in each premiership winning side at the Broncos Kevin Walters has been an important member and a large reason for the success of those sides, his combination with Allan Langer behind a forward pack of substance produced the premierships in '92 '93 '97 '98 and made the Broncos so lethal and dominate in the 90's.

I understand what you are saying regarding the great longer service kevie gave but it would be like putting the long serving Andrew Gee in ahead of Lazarus. Quite honestly, at his best at the Broncos he just wasnt as good as Lazarus was at his best for the Broncos.

Again its form here which is most important, Webcke and Lazarus not only just pick themselves because of their reputation as being the best props in the world but its their consistancy at the Broncos which is what counts most, afterall its picking the players who performed the BEST at the Broncos on the most consistant basis not just previous reputations or a few seasons. Theres no way Andrew Gee on a consistant basis produced the form Lazarus and Webcke have produced for the Broncos, so even if you ignore the reputations of players theres no way I'd say Gee is better then Webcke or Lazarus because he just didnt perform consistantly as good as Webcke and Lazarus for the Broncos.

Kevin Walters is a great clubman for the Broncos but I have not used that for criteria here nor would I, for me its consistancy over their careers at that club which counts not just their reputations. Lewis will be regarded as the better player overall judged by his career I have no doubt or arguements there, but its form at Broncos where it counts and thats where Walters has the edge. IMHO the halves combination of Walters/Langer offered more then the Lewis/Langer combination for the Broncos especially if you include the combination those two formed with Kerrod Walters, afterall your talking about the combination which was a large reason for the Broncos success in the clubs golden era of 1992/1993 and that side did what the Broncos early had threatened but never managed.

Thats just my opinion and thats the great thing about these teams, theres usually great debates about who to include and who not to :)
 
Messages
2,839
From the time iv been watching league/broncos, 96-present, this would be my team:

1. Lockyer
2.Sailor
3. Renouf
4. Berrigan
5. Tuqiri
6. Walters
7. Langer
8. Webcke
9. Priddis
10. Lazarus
11. Tallis
12. Thorn
13. Carroll
 

BRANDY

Juniors
Messages
18
My criteria,
1 retired
2 origin or better
3 100 games
4 semi final
5 set record for club

1 julian oneill * lockyer has not retired yet
2 mick hancock *tuqiri played less than 50 games
3 steve renouf
4 chris johns
5 wendell sailor
6 kevin walters * wally lewis was not selected because walter had better criteria
7 allan langer
8 glen lazarus
9 kerrod walters* priddis is still playing and met more criteria
10 andrew gee
11 mark hohn
12gorden tallis
13 terry matterson

its just an opinion but it is a well thoughtout one.
thankyou
 

DIEHARD

----
Messages
7,037
1. Lockyer
2. Hancock
3. Renouf
4. Miles
5. Tuqiri
6. Lewis
7. Langer
8. Webcke
9. Walters
10. Lazarus
11. Tallis
12. Gillmeister
13. Ryan

14 - Smith
15 - Plath
16 - Thorn
17 - Walters
 

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