Brown blasts his 'look pretty' Dragons

[Dave Q]

OK, if they did not follow the "game plan" wouldn't he of blasted them in the sheds at half time so they can play to his supposed "Game Plan"? That would only account for 40 minutes of not playing to his game plan.

IF he did then they obviously did not take any notice as they played just as bad the 2nd half.

He is rubbish. Why wait 5 games, do it now as they are only 1 game into the season and have plenty of time to build on a good season. They are going to wait till the Dragons are 10 pts behind 1st and have no chance of making the top 4.

I'm glad someone has addressed the point but we appear to be on different pages.

According to Gaz, its the players fault for not listening nor transposing Browny's instructions into deeds on the park.

Its not a coach transmission problem, its a player reception issue.

If the players had followed his instructions and lost, well by all means string Brown up....but it just didnt happen that way.

At the worst for Brown, inconclusiveness, but based on Gaz's testimony, no solid evidence of actual fault in his coaching management of this round one game.

 

[sethman75]

For my money the only mistake Brown made was having Hornby at 5/8 and Josh Morris at FB. Put Hornby back at FB and leave Rangi at 5/8.

As to Brown as a coach I have no doubt he has the strategy and tactics to out-think other sides and come up with winning game plans. He has however shown that he hasn't been able to consistently prepare a team to play high intensity football. Wether it's fitness or skills we fall down on both. You could tell when they walked out on the field that some of them didn't want to be there while the tiges were ready to run through brick walls.

As to individual players yesterday I would point the finger at Hornby, Ryles, Scott, Creagh Woolford, Soward and Poore. There were times when on the third and fourth tackles we had Nightingale, Cooper and Gasnier running from dummy half.
THAT IS JUST NOT ACCEPTABLE OF AN NRL FORWARD PACK.

The positives were Saffy, Reynoldson and Rangi Chase. They looked like they wanted to put in 100%. The rest dissapointed greatly.

The most common sense thing i've heard for a while.

I can't trust Morris to catch bombs and clear the ball from the try line. Hornby is good at both not to mention good at reading the play and decent tackler. His natural position is FB.

But he has got him in at 5/8th where his only good attribute is kicking. Rangi Chase is twice the attacking threat of Hornby and he links up well with Gaz.

If Brown doesn't start those two in those positions from the start he should be sacked Monday night.

 

[scarcev]

I disagree, How hard is it to get a message out to the players to attack down Gaz's wing during the second half. Why isnt a forward dragged when he decides to grubber in goal on the 3rd. Why werent the two debutants on the wing tested even once? Why was one of the best backlines in the NRL standing so flat? Why was there no decent last tackle option other than a dink over the top that was never ever going to threatent? Why was Chase playing there?

Of course Gaz is going to back his coach, you wouldnt expect any different, but I'll leave you with this, if Brown was sacked tomorrow how many other clubs would be knocking at his door? Just because he is the one of the best club men of all time doesnt mean he's a coach.

I'm glad someone has addressed the point but we appear to be on different pages.

According to Gaz, its the players fault for not listening nor transposing Browny's instructions into deeds on the park.

Its not a coach transmission problem, its a player reception issue.

If the players had followed his instructions and lost, well by all means string Brown up....but it just didnt happen that way.

At the worst for Brown, inconclusiveness, but based on Gaz's testimony, no solid evidence of actual fault in his coaching management of this round one game.

 

[Dave Q]

I disagree, How hard is it to get a message out to the players to attack down Gaz's wing during the second half. Why isnt a forward dragged when he decides to grubber in goal on the 3rd. Why werent the two debutants on the wing tested even once? Why was one of the best backlines in the NRL standing so flat? Why was there no decent last tackle option other than a dink over the top that was never ever going to threatent? Why was Chase playing there?

Of course Gaz is going to back his coach, you wouldnt expect any different, but I'll leave you with this, if Brown was sacked tomorrow how many other clubs would be knocking at his door? Just because he is the one of the best club men of all time doesnt mean he's a coach.

From Gaz's admission it seems to me that we know that Brown had a game plan. We know that he instructed the players to do certain things. We know that the players "didnt respect" that plan.

I think we can safely assume that Brown continued to bark out these instructions during the match through the runners, captian and at half time.

As the game progresses, the immediate game environment changes and its Brown's job to detect and address these.

The only thing he cant do is execute these plays himself.

My guess is of these valuable insights you have provided, some of them would have been dealt with by Brown but for whatever reason, the players didnt respond.

And this "for wahtever reason" is the crux of the issue.

And it raises that broader issue of whether we want players to be robots or on the other extreme whether we should give them dollops of meaningful choice.

I think there are times when players make unilateral decisions and try or do things that they think will improve their teams position but are in fact outside of their role as provided to them by the coach. They may come off or they may end up as cactus.

It would appear that in round one, either the players lost focus of the game plan or were unable to execute the plays as directed.

Another coach or another group of players would solve the issue but neither are realistic prospects at this juncture.

I take your point about players seemingly in the wrong positions, that could be a fair charge levelled at Brown. But thats an ability issue as well. Not too many backlines stand too deep these days. Some attribute that to the influence of fromer Dragon Brian Smith.

We are certainly a long way from the eels 1980's diagonal to the in-goal!

I agree that good club men do not neccessarily make good coaches. That is indisputable.

And my guess is that no club would be looking for Nathan Brown as a prospective coach.

Whether thats entirely deserved, Im not quite convinced. Certainly not on the basis of this Round 1 2008 performance.

In summation, my view is that Brown deserves the benefit of the doubt at this time.

I might add that I dont feel especially uncomfortable if others have come to a different view as a balance of views is the optimum.

 

[petetheileet]

Browny was so gutted after this performance...based solely on this weekend i am more dissapointed in the players than Browny...

Is this perhaps a case of the players possibly not respecting the coach enough to follow his game plan...perhaps even doing the opposite to put him under more pressure if they want a change....

would our boys do that???

 

[Dave Q]

Browny was so gutted after this performance...based solely on this weekend i am more dissapointed in the players than Browny...

Is this perhaps a case of the players possibly not respecting the coach enough to follow his game plan...perhaps even doing the opposite to put him under more pressure if they want a change....

would our boys do that???

Thats a fair call and I too paused to ponder that question of the players respecting Brown.

Maybe they dont trust him or there is some underlying lack of confidence issue. If so, thats a genuine problem. If they have an issue with him, someone should let him in on it so it can be thrashed out and resolved. It cant be left to fester too long.

But the last thing the club needs is players running the joint. Thats the same as putting the lunatics in charge of the asylum.

If the question is posed as to whether Brown has a better understanding of the game than the players, I think the answer must be "yes"

 

[petetheileet]

lol but only just...

 

[LOYAL DRAGON]

browny lost the respect of his players when he slaped barret, they dont have the desire to perform under hime, just look at who ever leaves the club how well they play including trent barret all of a sudden his a speedster again.
watch for ashtom sims and his two brothers, the broncos know what they doing and why would you let bull baily go, did the brocos let webke go, ive said enough

 

[Dave Q]

browny lost the respect of his players when he slaped barret, they dont have the desire to perform under hime, just look at who ever leaves the club how well they play including trent barret all of a sudden his a speedster again.
watch for ashtom sims and his two brothers, the broncos know what they doing and why would you let bull baily go, did the brocos let webke go, ive said enough

A short but valuable contribution to this discussion.

The Barrett slap was very poor and almost indefensible.

But in my mind, he made a full and complete reputational recovery for that by owning up and apologising profusely. His retraction was earnest and robust. It was loud and clear.

There are some things that a person may do that perhaps cannot be forgiven, but in my view, this was not one.

I wasnt at the cool-down or the next training session, but I expect that he would have made complete admissions and apologised to the players directly about the incident.

Some may have regarded it as a weakness but others may have seen his retraction as a strength for him in the vein of the belief that "real men own up."

It was awhile ago now so it becomes a distant memory or enters an early fable period.

This difference in player understandings, maybe we saw a modern version in Round one...no, not thoughts about the slap but the players own mind's messing with Brown's messages.

Bailey had an outstanding 2007 and in the Titans glittering recuitment effort, he was a genuine standout. I actually hold him in higher regard now than I did when he was with the Dragons. If it wasnt Brown's decision to let Bailey go, then its not Brown's fault and he has accordingly been obliged to replace this talent with a lessor standard of player.

That fact would operate to excuse and support Brown and maybe turn attention to the club management side of things.

I'm not quite convinced that Brown is the cause of all of the Dragon's woes.

He may just well be the fall guy for under-performing players and sub-standard management.